I would be the first to say that my experiences differ vastly to others, and I condemn Any form of murder, from wherever it comes and whilst I can accept and even understand in some instances, that people during the conflict here took up arms for a variety of reasons, I can never condone the deliberate taking of a life.
I am from a Unionist family; however, I can never remember being brought to the 12th parades as a child and only remember mum in the latter days of my gran’s life being coerced into taking her. My only experience of the parades is having to police them every year and it was not a duty I looked forward to. I have to say though, that Belfast is a totally different atmosphere (certainly within North Belfast) than other areas. I have been publicly critical of the Orange Order and of the way some loyalists conduct themselves at parades, and in fact year long.
Having said all that, in the past few days I have seen what looks like inflated misrepresentation by people who should know better. Journalists, political figures, so called political commentators - all have had their digs at the PUL community, in some cases spinning in order to try to score points against it.
We saw Sinead McLaughlin weighing in from Derry to castigate the 12th by tweeting:
Everybody leaves, everything closes down, you would struggle to get a restaurant open in Belfast on the lead up to and the couple of days after. It is a disaster for Tourism.
Can I categorically state now that Ms McLaughlin is not factual? Restaurants were busy, shops were busy, museums were open, as was St Georges Market - and all were bringing in revenue. Even in my own area, all restaurants were booming, petrol stations were open etc, so that’s Sineads’ myth busted. Then only today, Chris Donnelly decided to weigh in with the same type of argument.
A journalist wrote about their ‘trauma and scars’ as a youth and having almost to evacuate the awfulness of the 12th. If this was not one of the most sickening displays of unadulterated sectarianism and ‘poor me’ I have had the misfortune to read in quite some time, I don't really know what is. Only that I am aware of some of their past, I knew that they were well aware of North Belfast prior to having to report from the riots.
What should have been homed in on by all was the disgusting and vile effigy and (with some headers in the Loyalist community claiming this to be‘art’) of the boat with immigrants on the top of Moygashel bonfire. The silence from some Unionist politicians was deafening on this utter display of racist hate and intimidation. Quite rightly this is being investigated as a hate incident which is however, different to a hate crime. Where were the decent community of Moygashel when this disgusting display was being raised to the top of this pyre?
What should be reported on are the good works going on within communities, people who, prior to what we call ‘peace’, would have never come in contact with each other. Journalists and commentators should also challenge any attempt to stir hatred and division from wherever between the two communities, showing that it is counter-productive, juvenile and wrong. Journalists should be impartial when reporting on events rather than propel their own sensationalist agendas onto the unsuspecting public for clicks and drama.
We should all take ownership for calling out the wrongs in our own communities. All sides spouting vile nonsense only serves the purpose of dragging us back and has zero positive impact on our society.
A journalist wrote about their ‘trauma and scars’ as a youth and having almost to evacuate the awfulness of the 12th. If this was not one of the most sickening displays of unadulterated sectarianism and ‘poor me’ I have had the misfortune to read in quite some time, I don't really know what is. Only that I am aware of some of their past, I knew that they were well aware of North Belfast prior to having to report from the riots.
What should have been homed in on by all was the disgusting and vile effigy and (with some headers in the Loyalist community claiming this to be‘art’) of the boat with immigrants on the top of Moygashel bonfire. The silence from some Unionist politicians was deafening on this utter display of racist hate and intimidation. Quite rightly this is being investigated as a hate incident which is however, different to a hate crime. Where were the decent community of Moygashel when this disgusting display was being raised to the top of this pyre?
What should be reported on are the good works going on within communities, people who, prior to what we call ‘peace’, would have never come in contact with each other. Journalists and commentators should also challenge any attempt to stir hatred and division from wherever between the two communities, showing that it is counter-productive, juvenile and wrong. Journalists should be impartial when reporting on events rather than propel their own sensationalist agendas onto the unsuspecting public for clicks and drama.
We should all take ownership for calling out the wrongs in our own communities. All sides spouting vile nonsense only serves the purpose of dragging us back and has zero positive impact on our society.
 |
| Lesley Stock is a former PSNI and RUC Officer currently involved in community work. |
I was there up to the 12th meself. The Loyalist marches are contracting into much smaller affairs, becoming much more family focused and getting rid of all the shite that put me off, the drunken howling sectarian shite is definitely abating (jeer all you want it's what I observed) though absolutely is still there, and needs terminating. Fair play to BCC for cleaning up the abomination of unnecessary rubbish left behind in Bradbury place. This always fucked me off no end. I come from a Loyalist family but we have all mellowed significantly over the years and all are done with this type of nonsense. I never could stand the rubbish left over after marches. At least act like responsible citizens after enjoying yourself.
ReplyDeleteMuch fewer Israeli flags too, my community should set aside the shite "My enemy's enemy is my friend" bollocks and take rightful outrage at what the Israeli's are doing in Gaza, it's beyond an obscenity to Humanity and we should hold no truck with it.
I'm still getting over the jet lag so forgive me for just commenting and not writing a piece. Hope everyone and their families are well, and I mean that most sincerely.
Stevie.
I think the Orange Order still has some way to go, for me even to attend a 12th Parade - certainly in Belfast. For 28 years, I was unfortunately subjected to the horrendous behaviour (more notable on the return parade) of some of the supporters and indeed the bandsmen. The shouting of abuse between the loyalists as they passed Nationalist areas, and vice versa was something else. I feel that the OO, if they are to employ bands, should hold them completely to account and unless they adhere to strict codes of conduct, then they should be banned from participating again. The OO does need to look forward, unfortunately, contrary to what Mervyn Gibson said in an interview with the Belfast Telegraph only last week, I didn't hear much 'moving' with the times.
DeleteThanks for your piece Leslie and thanks Stevie for your follow on comment. Both are statements of your experiences and opinions.
ReplyDeleteHowever, my experiences, perceptions and opinions are very much at variance to those which both of you express. I, as do many in the CRN community, associate Unionism and Loyalism with supremacism. We tend to view Unionism and Loyalism in much the same way perhaps as Black America views White Supremacism. We view the '12th' parades in much the same way as Black Americans might regard a Klan gathering, hate-filled top-dog lunacy!
Bad news: Neither the Black Man nor the Croppies are for lying down any longer.
Hadn't ye noticed?
HJ,
DeleteI think they are most definitely winding back though. The lack of background violence that happened during the conflict inflamed it much more. I believe it will eventually contract into a few small parades and bonfires as the young mix more and more ( I can even see this within my own younger family members dating across the divide with not an eyebrow raised either- something that would have been unthinkable 30 years ago.)
If you ignore them then they go away much sooner! No need to lay down, just go for a pint and ignore! LOL
The attempt by Nordy SF to pit the PSNI against the PUL community was rightly seen for what it was though, regards the bonfire.
Sure Steve they are winding back. That has to be acknowledged.
DeleteHowever, the law needs to be applied, applied equally, and seen to be applied that way.
The bonfire in the Village area contravened health and safety legislation and the Tyrone one, contravened Incitement laws.
Are people supposed to just look the other way and suck it up?
It's just more Croppies lay down behaviour, the mob extending two-fingers to the rest of society. Both these situations, no doubt challenging in policing terms, and financially costly, ought to have been tackled.
The Village bonfire had those issues known about for years and it wasn't a problem then and it passed off peacefully once again.
DeleteThe Moygashel bonfire also burned a sign on the exact same bonfire calling for Veterans before Refugees so I'm not entirely sure they thought through the symbology of what they were burning lol
My point was ...if you can see something that annoys you thrives on your attention and without your attention it's withering and dying, why are you keeping it alive? It's been 10 days since the 12th and I haven't heard anything about any widespread sectarian riots?
Steve - I think what gives it legs is the level of naked hatred expressed. Every society has cultures and subcultures. I think a culturally promiscuous society is healthier than one where cultural rigidity prevails. But a culture of racist hatred should no more be tolerated than a culture of wife beating - just because there is a tradition of it.
DeleteI have memories of a very small number of people heading off over the 12th but it was miniscule. I have a friend who comes down over the 12th and has a drink. Most stay put. Nationalists in the North very much notice the 12th whereas in the South it is just another day, means nothing. And I live beside the Boyne!
Hedley Lamar comments
DeleteSteve,
I doubt the mob weighed up all the information available, made a considered judgment to riot for one and not the other. That's the problem with mob violence, there's no accountability or transparency.
Are you saying the families of the two boys are responsible for their alleged actions? Was this the worst crime Ballymena has ever seen? Show me previous riots sparked by the alleged behaviour of a white British suspect.
The Guardian reported that dozens of Romanian and Bulgarian Roma families were driven from their homes. Were all these families related or responsible for the alleged crime? Why else were the families targeted but race? That's the only common denominator.
I can't remember mobs rioting in Ballymena when councillor David Tweed was jailed for sex offences.
The End Violence Against Women Coalition who know more about the subject than most said:
The far-right has long co-opted sexual violence to promote its racist, white supremacist agenda. These are often known misogynists who do nothing to meaningfully improve women and girls’ autonomy, rights and freedoms, and tend to have patriarchal views.
Violence against women and girls is a national epidemic that requires urgent, meaningful action. We will not let the far-right weaponise and distort public concerns about it to further its hateful agenda. Sexual violence is not political fodder.
Our thoughts and solidarity are with the teenage girl subjected to sexual violence and with the migrant and minoritised communities being targeted with racist violence.
We need education at all ages on the importance of respect and consent. We need to pay attention to groups working to prevent violence against women That would have a better outcome than burning out families because of their ethnicity.
Lesley --you might be telling your truth --for the PUL But your truth is involves sectarian blindness --Sinead McLaughlin is telling/ repeating the truth about what the 12 sectarian fest means for nationalists -yes we do live under siege and no we dont want sectarian bigots coat trail or stomp through our communities -- children are sent away for the 12th or the whole family goes if they can afford it --shops in clash points sutter-up .. So yeah we do move away and if youd any nationalist friends in flash points you'd be taking a red-ner right now.
ReplyDeleteChristie, my parents also took me away out of it during the 12th. So believe me it wasn't just Nationalists who left for their summer holidays. I don't see why I should be 'taking a Redner' - as you say, this is my truth, this is how I see things as they happened this year. Believe me, its the first year that I have commented in a half decent light about the 12th (any other year I'd have been lambasting the bonfires, the OO and the fact that there are too many incidents of vile drunken behaviour by louts, Ive never done that regarding St Patricks day events - the drunken behaviour bit)See Christie if I was blinded by sectarianism, which I strongly refute, I would never criticise the PUL community.... I think indeed it may be someone else 'blinded by sectarianism'
DeleteNot Really Here - Nothing I said deprives you of your truth nor did I hint, suggest or imply you should take a redner?? My comment --did not even deprive Lesley of her truth --I point out that she seems oblivious to nationalist truth --which you say you also shared each summer. Lesley couches her
ReplyDeleteassertions as someone who has never participated in the 12th Sectarian Fest as if she could not be sectarian. from that I deduce 1) she is aware of the significance of sectarian fest --and by that one is to conclude she is not sectarian -while disregarding the nationalist experience. Lesley is not as subtle as she seems to think she is, and while her articles are welcome -I do read them -but she should try and be the person she tries to portray herself as.
Words from Sam McIlwaine (Shrapnel podcast) re. coverage of the marching season:
ReplyDelete"I see myself as a balanced, reasoned, moderate loyalist. But this continuous onslaught on my community, my friends, my background has really pushed me this year. So much so I've decided to re-engage politically. This cannot go unchallenged...They have pushed moderates, disengaged unionists/loyalists, back into the fold as such."
"balanced, reasoned, moderate loyalist"
DeleteOxymoronic twaddle!
"I see myself as a balanced, reasoned, moderate loyalist"
ReplyDeleteI'd one stage, I'd have considered this an Oxymoron. I've a lot of time for Sam, but the times they are a-changing. Bonfires are environmentally unsound. I'm opposed to republican and loyalist ones. It's time to move on. I don't see an onslaught against loyalism, I see a re-balancing. As I've said repeatedly, loyalists have lost every fight they've started (they would say have been provoked into) since Obins Road in the mid 1980s.
I went to the Orange parades in 2011 with a friend from uni. I stood on the Dublin Road and watched the spectacle. There was a fair bit of drunken behaviour, and one thing I hadn't realised was how intensely some bands disliked each other. A few feet from where I stood, someone threw very loud firecrackers into a band, which caused a lot of disruption. The culprit was chased by a loads of guys, who were in turn chased by a couple of PSNI officers.
One of the most galling things I saw that day was a minister of some kind wearing a religious collar and beaming with pride as he walked with his brethren. I'm not sure what annoyed me so much about him, perhaps the hypocrisy of someone identifying as a man of God whilst partaking in an exercise of exclusion.
Orange parades now-a-days remind me of the miners going back to work after calling off the strike in the 1980s. Like a defeated army.
Brandon, it's as equally oximoronic as SF members and supporters calling themselves Republicans. One can either be a Republican or a Partitionist, but not both.
DeleteOne cannot be both a Republican (as I and others here once called ourselves and practiced) and a democrat. Those terms are mutually exclusive.
HJ
[a reluctant partitionist, and sometimes reluctant democrat]
Christopher --the quote you cite is much inline with Lesley's article and her strange alias 'not really here' --which makes me ask 'where is she all there?' --any way she comments "I think the Orange Order still has some way to go, for me even to attend a 12th Parade" --- if she has hangups about the OO why is it hypocrisy for Sinead McLaughlin or nationalists?
ReplyDeleteAn impression I get is Lesley likes to portray herself as a moderate through her detachment from, and criticisms of, the OO but at the same time she is not yet ready to see the end of a sectarian and bigoted organization established to maintain Protestant ascendancy.
I knew Brian Kennaway fairly well and he believed in the Orange tradition while despising the bigotry. He showed considerable courage in standing up to the Orange leadership. He told me he was a Christian and regarded the Orange Order as foremost a religious institution even when he had difficulties 'seeing the face of Christ' in it
DeleteAwe Christy, now don't be getting your knickers in a knot. Are you trying to say that I am a secret sectarian, as opposed to an outright one like yourself? I can assure you, I am as moderate as they come, I at least have the capacity to understand that people have their own individual experiences, upbringing and opinions, and you know what? I understand your experience and upbringing is more than likely a world away from mine, but that's fine. What's not fine is someone not even trying to understand others point of view. You do realise that people can stand up for something which they wouldn't have anything to do with. I'll try to make it easy, just because someone believes that Isreal are now committing genocide in Gaza (which I do), doesn't mean that I thought the attack on 7 October was right. (which I don't) I may not agree with what someone says, but if its true and is their opinion, then they have a right to say it. Anthony is an atheist, I accept he doesn't have the same views as myself, but he's well within his right to believe what he feels is right. I won't have a row with him, we have had civilised discussions about it. Not sure where you're from Christy, but I'd have a drink with you irrespective.....
Delete