Pent-up ire sparks religion of future: It's time to cut Vatican ties

Tonight TPQ features former Blanket columnist Dr John Coulter with a piece that first appeared in the Irish Daily Star, 11th June, 2012.

The Catholic Church in Ireland needs to be reborn spiritually,  otherwise it will become a meaningless fringe cult in less than a decade.The abuse scandals, coupled with a secular society, have rocked confidence in the Church leadership, with Mass attendances collapsing nationwide.

Ireland was once the great bastion of the Church-State relationship,  especially in the Eamon de Valera era. But now Irish Catholics need a new set of beliefs, which will see the pews overflowing as they did in the Swinging Sixties.

The Vatican 's Irish office has been axed and Taoiseach Enda Kenny publicly used a Dáil speech to lambast the Catholic hierarchy.That represents the depth of the rot. And the calls for Cardinal Sean Brady to quit will not go away. But there is light at the end of this very dark tunnel for Irish Catholics. The question is, do they have the faith and conviction to follow that path?

A new faith “Pentecostal Catholicism” is slowly, but surely sweeping across the island. If Irish Catholics take this spiritual route, their faith will blossom as never before. This should not be misinterpreted as Catholics converting to Protestantism. But it does mean Irish Catholicism institutionally cutting its Vatican ties.

Even in the Protestant community, the mainstream and many fringe churches are faced with falling attendances. And Pentecostal Protestantism is on the rise, too. The power of the Pentecostal movement is that it does not distinguish between Catholics and Protestants. All are what is classified by faith as 'born again believers. In worship terms, a Pentecostal Catholic can feel just as comfortable at a gathering of Pentecostal Protestants.

The perfect example of this growing Pentecostal Catholic movement can be found on Belfast 's Falls Road. It's in the new Falls Community Fellowship church, based in a former Stickies building near the Royal Victoria Hospital. It is led by Pastor Tony Meehan, who once wanted to be a Jesuit-trained priest and was in the Irish Army.

He is also a married man with a family. That's another benefit the new Pentecostal Catholic movement has for any Catholic male wanting to become a pastor - celibacy is optional.The general Irish Pentecostal movement began in Monaghan in the early 1900s, but such was the Vatican 's grip on Catholicism here that bishops have always been able to cleverly dismiss Pentecostalism as Protestantism under another name.

The modern-day Pentecostal Catholic movement is taking the Biblical Old Testament text of Ezekiel chapter 36, verse 26 as its inspiration: "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."

The Irish Catholic leadership, as well as dumping Vatican rule and going independent, should also follow the words of Jesus when He told people to sell their riches and give to the poor.

With austerity cuts biting deep across Ireland, the Church has vast riches in its chapels, monasteries, convents and cathedrals. Poverty will be the social scourge of the next decade and the Irish Catholic Church must sell, sell, sell to help the poor and needy. It should immediately cut its funding to the Vatican.

But money will not buy salvation for the Catholic Church as an institution. It must turn to Pentecostalism as a faith, otherwise Catholicism in Ireland as a religious influence will be dead in a decade, too.

46 comments:

  1. This is like Ian Paisley telling the Republican movement what principles it has to sell in order to be accepted by unionists. They obviously took that advice.

    The Catholic religion does not need to protestantise itself any more; in fact we need to row back the destruction that this has caused since Vatican II.

    It is so easy to blame ‘the Vatican’, but that is largely meaningless. The faults of the Catholic Church in Ireland rest squarely on those in Ireland, although they have aped the destruction plotted by such arch-heretics as Hans Kung.

    The only hope the Catholic Church has here, is to restore the pre-1962 Latin Mass, to restore the catechism and to return to what it once was. Above all we need holy priests, who will give up everything to follow Christ and re-invigorate the faithful. If someone would put a woman, (or in this day and age a man), as an obstacle to following Christ, then they are putting Christ second. Not a good start.

    Why would we need advice from those who are but dead branches, cut off from the Church founded by Christ? Or should I say a thousand splinters of branches.

    When we need your advice, we will let you know. Meanwhile, the mark of a Catholic is attachment to the Papacy. Any rejection of Rome, is by definition to become protestant.

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  2. John,

    an interesting post which I am pleased to carry. But I see no value in one brand of Catholicism replacing another. It would be much better if people did their thinking for themselves and moved away from all these institutions. The Vatican with with the old tossers in funny hats trying to tell the rest of us how to live has become pretty much a joke. I don't know of one Catholic who would listen to the dour dull lot on contraception. Those Catholics who think in the Protestant way and encourage independent thought, dissent, questioning and a healthy disregard for centralised religious authority, are much more worthy of being listened to than the fascist types.

    ‘and a new spirit will I put within you’

    Sounds very much like what the priest told the altar boy!!

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  3. At the risk of sounding from another planet, Dr. Coulter does touch on an important matter: finding meaning in life after traditional means have outlived their usefulness.

    I don't pretend to have any answers to the question, but it does seem to me that unless people find genuine meaning on their own, it will be found for them in the form of careerism, consumerism, faith in technology and other manifestations of religious belief available in the Mystical Body of the Corporate Capitalist Church.

    No doubt that a religious organization that sanctifies the diddling of little boys is the work of Beelzebub, but other religious organizations more commonly referred to as "the state" that sanctify the slaughter of innocents with "precision weapons" are at least equally pernicious.

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  4. John Mc Girr Paisley told the prm to wear sack cloth and ashes and they went even further they have prostrated totally naked,
    John Coulter why the fuck should catholics adorn a new set of shackles such as pentecostal catholicism just when they are in the process of beginning to finally shake of the vice like grip of Rome which exerted so much influence on the daily lives of the people here,and as we well know a lot of that was malign, all religion with the exception of the most worthy FSM should be as we like to say here "confined to the dustbins of history" and not a more refined and updated version of the same old shit.

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  5. Marty,

    Have I told you I have converted? I am now a Frisbeetarian. According to George Carlin ‘Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.’

    As plausible a theory on the afterlife as any other

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  6. Nah Anthony I,m sticking with FSM the problem with Frisbeetarianism is that a big slabbery dog somtimes catches the soul in mid air, then a cara where are you?

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  7. THE CHAV PRAYER;
    Our father who are in prison
    Mother knows not his name
    Thy chavdom come,thy shoplifting be done,in JJB sports as it is in Poundland,
    give us this day our welfare bread and forgive us our ASBO,s as we happy slap those who gave evidence against us.
    And lead us not into employment
    But deliver us free housing.
    For this is the chavdom
    The Burberry and the Blackberry
    For ever and ever
    INNIT;

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  8. Marty,

    ‘Paisley told the prm to wear sack cloth and ashes and they went even further they have prostrated totally naked,’

    They are heretics to Republicanism, much like AM, SMH et al. are heretics to the One True Faith.

    AM,

    ‘Have I told you I have converted? I am now a Frisbeetarian.

    Are you taking the proverbial?

    So should I now refer to you as a 'Free Spit Arian', a 'Wee Free' or a 'Wee Wee Free'?

    You prods confuse me.

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  9. AM

    That's a good one, maybe that's why we here so many eerie sounds from our attic, I keep telling the better half its birds nests, because she loves feeding them in the garden, she said to me, Oh my God, you will go to hell for saying that, those poor lost souls need released, I had to laugh at that one, so i said to Her, This is Hell, Its in the Bible, "I SHALL MAKE A Hell ON EARTH FOR YOU", The Soul?, I believe it to be our Brain, but I have No Idea how our thoughts manifest into a spirit and fly up towards the stars!.

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  10. marty,

    if that happens you just fall down on your knees and pray to doG

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  11. You know Anthony a cara the power of the upturned colander,we true believers can accept your dalliance with other opinions,in fact we encourage it,for as sure as there is shit on your shirt tail you shall return to the one true faith and on that day you shall wear your Spaghetti with pride,John on the other hand shall burn forever in the pizza oven for invoking the heretic label on fine decent people. thank the good colander he left me out,John a cara I have written twice to the Vatican demanding excommunication,but the buggers were probably to busy chasing alterboys to reply,can you put a word in for me a cara?.

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  12. All hail Flying Spaghetti Monster. Pastafarianism: the way to go - in this life and the next!!!

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  13. @ JCoulter RE: ‘A new faith “Pentecostal Catholicism” is slowly, but surely sweeping across the island. If Irish Catholics take this spiritual route, their faith will blossom as never before. This should not be misinterpreted as Catholics converting to Protestantism. But it does mean Irish Catholicism institutionally cutting its Vatican ties.’

    I don’t believe that Pentecostal Catholicism will address/solve the past nor present state of Irelands Catholic fallout. Issues have always underpinned the religion of Catholicism. The patriarchal, misogynistic doctrines are so heavily embedded in the constructs of the religion including centuries of abuse, abusive relay of what God is and expecting subservience from the followers (ie) Yes Father No Father The Pope said it so it must be right...

    All that infantile bowing down spiritually to this construct has gutted the people. Hence the people need to thoroughly reject Catholicism and learn to stand alone individually seeking their truth and walking their spiritual belief out in realville.

    The Catholic Church became like a cocoon for too many even when it disrespected and manipulated them..NB There is a cleansing happening but to try and superimpose the Pente movement onto Catholicism is like putting a bandaid on a gaping pusridden wound. Catholicism betrayed us Irish – the Vatican needs to be hauled before the courts and tried.

    RE ‘The power of the Pentecostal movement is that it does not distinguish between Catholics and Protestants’
    That may be so but the realities detect otherwise Marching season is a good example... The intertwining of historical events where Native Irish were decimated is also woven in with the same intensity for the prod aka planters and the filthy Loyalists who have their grudge mentality too. Imo until Ireland is Brit free there will always be the hate bubbling under the skin no matter how many prayers and shows of unity. We need another Wolfe Tone to rise up and lead the people.

    I will check out that church in Belfast next time over. The Holy Spirit needs to be poured onto centuries old wounds and grievances. Ireland is awash with sorrows – like a long. winding river of sorrows. We don’t forget nor easily forgive what was done on us... Some cultures are more able to but we don’t. They and We have not gone away u know...

    Because Catholicism was such a thorough stronghold on Ireland a blurring of culture and religon together happened. There is a crave on Irish Catholics still - to be dictated to by presumed higher authorities who represent God. This may result in Catholics becoming ex Catholics (goodo!!) but moving towards a new dictatorial oppressive regime – Islam. As Islam has parallels with Catholicism in it’s control mode...

    I found some u/standing of God thru the Pente movement decades ago but also saw some atrocities in that scene too. Rather obsessive with Satan deliverance numbers and so forth. One's spiritual conviction should never be used as a floorshow nor to diss and judge others... Sometimes i go thru times when I feel that i have come to the end of even believing in God but then i know i do believe... but it is a personal conviction sans church stuff.

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  14. @JihadistJohnMcGirr Really you should start a blog called JihadJohn. There is an intense hatred in some of your writings that is not a good look... The obsession with the former state of Catholicism ,latin mass and the such is regressive, blockading, naive dances of bullshit. Our language is Gaeilge i have a bible in Gaeilge. Who crushed our language and who colluded with the Brits to Ireland’s detriment. Who lies, deceives, rapes and plunders =’s V is for Vatican.

    As for Paisley – spiritually he wouldn’t know his arse from his elbow. A sick man in all facets with no remorse. If you had been birthed into the religion of Islam i have no doubt you would have killed dissenters/apostates from it by now. Calling Anthony and myself heretics is just pathetic. Who the hell do u think u r.

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  15. @ thepiedcowblog What you wrote largely made sense to me...

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  16. @ Marty lolz re '
    John Coulter why the fuck should catholics adorn a new set of shackles...' Succinct and to the point as always lol

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  17. SMH,

    'Jihad John'

    LOL at that now. Still LOL

    I don't mind JJ calling me a heretic or a Protestant.It is when he calls me a Catholic I get upset!!

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  18. SMHeretic,

    ‘There is an intense hatred in some of your writings that is not a good look...’

    Have you read your own posts? I have never known any one so full of hate for Christ’s Church as you are. Pot, kettle etc.. (Or maybe Prot, Cathol).

    ‘The obsession with the former state of Catholicism ,latin mass and the such is regressive, blockading, naive dances of bullshit.’

    You claim to have been a Catholic, (although I don’t believe you ever were, as you said you worshipped statues). What is it your business whether those who still are pray in Latin, (as they did for nearly 2,000), years or not?

    ‘Calling Anthony and myself heretics is just pathetic. Who the hell do u think u r.’

    A heretic is someone who dissents from the Church and chooses their own path. That it so upsets you to be called that shows me that you are totally inconsistent, (as it should be a badge of honour to you), and absolutely devoid of any sense of humour.

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  19. Yes Anthony I agree with John here you of all people should check the facts first when that gunman was pointing his gun at Neva Rodgers according to a heavenly spokesman god was taking a dump...

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  20. SMH hON There wasnt seven sayings from Jesus on the cross as you quoted BUT in fact there were eight,,, "I CAN SEE YOUR HOUSE FROM HERE"......

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  21. @ Anthony RE 'he doesn’t much like amputees either'
    i will read the whole thing indepth tomorrow All of it! Outta time... I did read chapter 1 and part of me didnt want to as i knew what it was gonna highlight... I have grappled with stuff internally like that for years & years.. Stuff that don't add up...
    I still believe but can only put this forward as the answer i have deduced for stuff that don't make sense: 'Though He slay me Yet shall i live' Bible

    Because as a Christian i believe this life is just a test/journey and when we cark it our spirits go home to God. Also believe God can heal but have no idea why He does not nor intervene for so many people/things...

    I aak His protection because spirit is stronger than flesh and oppression. He does heal but also does allow horrific stuff to go unchecked. God is scary i admit it.

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  22. @ marty LOL!! u r a shocker!

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  23. John,

    I suppose if the choice ie between being an atheist heretic or a religious lunatic I know what 'tic' I am happy to be!

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  24. @JihadJohn from now on u will be addressed as JJ. You have been demoted from Pope of Pensive Quill.
    SMHeretic

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  25. Psssst John c,mere. in keeping with your new name ie Jihad John or JJ would you be intrested in this vest a cara packed with 25kg,s of highly explosive bibles, just think a cara of all those virgins,and not an atheist about the place..

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  26. What a load of wishful twaddle on the part of Mr Coulter. On up the road in Andytown there is the real movement taking place in the Irish Church. The Traditionalists in the SSPX have a chapel which has recently expanded and now is filling once again. And they do not "market" themselves. Just as Anglicans likes to flatter themselves by claiming to be Catholic but are not neither are these bunch. So AM can rest easy on the brand of Catholicism line. And why is Traditionalism gaining ground on the Modernists? Because the people can think for themselves.

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  27. AM,
    ‘I don't mind JJ calling me a heretic or a Protestant.It is when he calls me a Catholic I get upset!!’

    No danger of me calling you that, Anthony.

    ‘I suppose if the choice ie between being an atheist heretic or a religious lunatic I know what 'tic' I am happy to be!’

    Don’t mention ‘lunatics’, (Sinead might hear you).

    SMHeretic
    ‘You have been demoted from Pope of Pensive Quill.’

    Does that mean the See is vacant?

    Marty,

    ‘Psssst John c,mere. in keeping with your new name ie Jihad John or JJ would you be intrested in this vest a cara packed with 25kg,s of highly explosive bibles, ‘

    Can’t think of a better use for prod bibles, Marty!

    ‘just think a cara of all those virgins,and not an atheist about the place.’.

    Not too many virgins among the Muzzies, as they are fair game before they are out of nappies.

    JJ, hammer of heretics.

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  28. John,

    Not too many virgins among the Muzzies, as they are fair game before they are out of nappies.

    Religions of the world: Unite

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  29. Oh holy fuck JJ I feel a fatwa being issued against yourself, watch out for posties wearing burka,s

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  30. AM,

    'Religions of the world: Unite'

    I share your disbelief in religion, Anthony. I just disbelieve in one less than you!

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  31. It’s okay, Marty, I sprinkle pig blood around the house to keeps them away.

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  32. What about a nice drop of misogynist blood John, make a better splatter.
    Amazing, how much the unholy and holy men actually have in common.

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  33. Fionnuala,

    I don't have a misogynist bone in my body.

    As Menchen said "A misogynist is a man who hates women as much as women hate each other."

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  34. @ JJ – See vid link - Orthodox Ethiopian Church although uploader in ignorance labelled it Somali There is distinct ways that r Ethiopian – there is an Ortho Ethio church in Sydney but i dunno about Ireland. Bob Marley & Peter Tosh were both baptised into this church/kingston as adults – a little promoted fact. They were in fact believers in Jesus as the King of Kings NOT in Haile Selassie who himself said he was not and not to worship him. NB This is real orthodoxy/trads so ancient & they are beautiful. If Irish Catholicism were to revert back to Christianity pre the implementation of the constructs of institutionalised Catholicism on Ireland we would find the same beauty... All i see in Catholic trads is sham and shameful for their crimes into the present.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8GpvMk3d7s

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  35. @ Anthony Re i spent a good hour or so reading thru ‘why won’t God heal amputees’ til me eyeballs were burning/brain melting BUT me spirit despite all believes in God aka Jesus Christ. The risk of buying into magical thinking is very real and i am totally aware of that. I just have faith that what i cannot understand will be explained in the next life. However i would always speak out on atrocities of which there are so many done in the name God. My brother is atheist as are some of my friends.

    It is never an issue but it would be if i started hammering away at them preaching about Jesus! I think sometimes the fervour people get at preaching at non believers is based in their own fear that their belief may not be true! So they go harder at the unbelievers.

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  36. The brits used to ask "what is your religion"? in the early 70,s when they stopped and searched us in the streets, we used to say" lapsed atheist"really loved leaving the bastards confused,

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  37. Marty.

    Were do you get them from. lol.

    round about 1957 i was stopped ridding up the crumlin rd by the B specials, The little Dwarfs ask me why i had no light on my bike, I looked down and said, FFS, someone has nicked it, were are you going he says, I says, Home, he Says And were is Home, I said, My Ma and Da's house, now, I could see the venom in both there faces, WHAT IS YOUR FU*KING ADDRESS they both said at once, I told them my address in Ardoyne, I got a smack round the head and was called a fenian BA*TARD, and my Ma was a fenian Whore, I pointed out that my Ma used to be a protestant, but changed when she Married my Da, Ack they are the worst, he said, now walk your bike home and if anything happens to you don't be calling the police, I walked for about 20 yards past cambria st and shouted Ha Ha, Your nothing but reptiles and you cant chase me because you'll trip over your great coats, I jumped on my bike and Pedaled like the clappers. I loathed those little pieces of garbage.

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  38. Lifes full of such memories itsjustmackers a cara,kind of reminds me of the wee fat bastards in the udr/uvf/uda. who used to stop us regularly around the border areas especially in Fermanagh,the sight of the wee fuckers acting macho in front of the greenbats,and trying to make it look like those heavy SLR,s were lightweight,and all the while the faces got redder especially trying to make us spreadeagle over the bonnet of the car, we had at that time a wee game we played,it was called estimate the amount,now I,m sure you know where I,m coming from here, it give us no end of pleasure and fucked up their day when instead of holding taigs for hours on end and annoying them we would laugh and argue just how much semtex (kills all known germs ) it would take to send the fat fuckers into space " 1 ,lb" "nah nowhere near enough its a 3 lber at least"it was usually scary stuff being stopped by those bastards,so we did try and see through the uniform and see the bastards for what they really were ie,wee fat bigoted orangemen who on their own couldnt beat their way out of a paper bag..they really hate it when they know you are laughing at them and not cowering.to me a cara its the only way to go ..

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  39. What were you doing down in Fermanagh Marty?
    No don't tell me I hate those sheep jokes.

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  40. SMH,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8GpvMk3d7s

    I watched your link. I don’t see any comparison between them and this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqwV9l-U8ds

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  41. Marty,

    You are right. The great Spaghetti Monster is calling. Last night I fell to my knees and whispered to his believed mother;

    ‘Hail Spaggi full of Sauce
    Give the pasta another toss
    Jesus, well he can get lost,
    Your son is the one true boss ...’

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  42. Thank f##k it was the pasta you were tossing a cara, mind you whatever floats your boat is ok with me !

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  43. SMH,


    ‘the Vatican needs to be hauled before the courts and tried.’
    Geoffrey Robertson makes a great argument on this.

    ‘As Islam has parallels with Catholicism in it's control mode...’

    It is part of the religious phenomenon – the need to control.

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  44. SMH,

    'Because as a Christian i believe this life is just a test/journey and when we cark it our spirits go home to God. Also believe God can heal but have no idea why He does not nor intervene for so many people/things...'

    I suppose it is ok to have that belief when you don't demand that others have to share it or be subject to it.

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