In this narrative, liberal establishment figures refrain from making any comment on incidence of this abuse to avoid accusations of racism and Islamophobia and that the nature of this type of sexual offending is evidence of the failure of immigration and multiculturalism and of the incompatibility of certain cultures, particularly of Islamic provenance, with the values of mainstream British society.
More darker accounts allege establishment cover up of the grooming scandals. These allegations have risen up the political agenda with calls by leading Conservative figures such as Party Leader Kemi Badenoch, Shadow Justice Secretary Robert Jenrick and Shadow Home Office Minister Chris Phelps for a national inquiry into child sexual exploitation. But the real time bomb that has been detonated in the centre of British political conversation has been the intervention of Elon Musk, the world’s richest man, using the bully pulpit of his own X platform to accuse Prime Minister Keir Starmer of failing to bring rape gangs to justice when head of the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and calling for the imprisonment of Jess Phillips, Safeguarding Minister, for being a “genocidal rape apologist” for refusing to agree to a request from Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council - one of the local authority areas where a grooming gang operated - for a national inquiry. These posts were part of a deluge of hostile comments towards Keir Starmer and the Labour Government and of support for the jailed far-right activist Tommy Robinson aka Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.
Before entering into any sort of engagement with these incendiary allegations. It is necessary to establish certain pertinent facts. First, the findings of a national overarching inquiry led by Professor Alexis Jay published in 2022 looked into abuse by organised groups after child sex abuse convictions across Britain between 2010-2014, including in Rotherham, Cornwall, Derbyshire, Rochdale, and Bristol. The report did establish that staggeringly there had been 1,400 incidences of child sexual abuse in Rotherham. It did find that children in Oldham were failed by agencies that were meant to protect them amid alleged grooming by “predominantly Pakistani offenders.” [1]
But secondly and crucially, the then Conservative government rejected in 2022. calls for the national inquiry that Kemi Badenoch is now so stridently calling for. A leaked letter shows that in September 2022, the then minister for safeguarding, Amanda Solloway, in rejecting a call for a public inquiry, wrote:
Before entering into any sort of engagement with these incendiary allegations. It is necessary to establish certain pertinent facts. First, the findings of a national overarching inquiry led by Professor Alexis Jay published in 2022 looked into abuse by organised groups after child sex abuse convictions across Britain between 2010-2014, including in Rotherham, Cornwall, Derbyshire, Rochdale, and Bristol. The report did establish that staggeringly there had been 1,400 incidences of child sexual abuse in Rotherham. It did find that children in Oldham were failed by agencies that were meant to protect them amid alleged grooming by “predominantly Pakistani offenders.” [1]
But secondly and crucially, the then Conservative government rejected in 2022. calls for the national inquiry that Kemi Badenoch is now so stridently calling for. A leaked letter shows that in September 2022, the then minister for safeguarding, Amanda Solloway, in rejecting a call for a public inquiry, wrote:
It is for the local authorities in individual towns and cities which are responsible for delivering local services, to commission local inquiries.
The same rationale lay behind Jess Phillips’ refusal of Oldham’s request for a national inquiry and a Labour spokesperson has said the government was “working at pace to implement the recommendations” in Professor Jay’s report.[2].
The decision on Oldham was taken in October 2024 but it was not reported on until 1st January 2025 on G-Beebies or GB News; Britain’s Alt-Right news hub. The original CPS decision not to prosecute the Rochdale gang was overturned by the ex-chief prosecutor of the North West of England, Nazir Afzal (of Pakistani Muslim heritage) who criticised the calls for a national inquiry by Tory politicians and Elon Musk on the grounds that the last government not implementing most of the recommendations of the Jay report. Maggie Oliver, the police whistleblower who resigned from Greater Manchester Police to speak out about police failings in child exploitation also condemned these “empty promises and political manoeuvrings”.[3] Another campaigner Sara Rowbotham, who made hundreds of referral detailing the abuse and sexual grooming while working for the NHS in Rochdale and who was played by Maxine Peake in the acclaimed BBC drama Three Girls, accused Elon Musk of “politicising” the rape of young girls as part of his scurrilous attacks on Keir Starmer. The father of Girl A, who, was groomed and abused in Rochdale by at least fifty men from the age of 12 commented “It is strange that the richest man in the world has got time to start getting involved in UK politics.[4]
Accusing opposition MPs of “jumping on a bandwagon” and “amplifying what the far right is saying” to gain attention, Sir Keir yesterday issued a stout defence on CSE while DPP. He introduced a special prosecutor for child abuse and sexual exploitation to oversee convictions; changed CPS guidelines to encourage police to investigate suspects in complex sexual abuse cases and brought in court reforms at making proceedings less traumatic for victims. He also said he reopened cases and brought the first “Asian grooming gang” prosecution in Rochdale and called for mandatory reporting of child sex abuse incidents.[5]
Leaving aside the political firestorm that has erupted in Britain over these most harrowing events, it is necessary to state what should be the patently obvious about the nature and dynamics of child sex exploitation. It is first of all a manifestation of patriarchal and misogynistic power at its most criminally obscene. All acts of rape are acts of abusive power exercised in the most intimate of settings. No victim of rape can ever be held to be responsible for their violation; they can never be held to have given consent to the violence done to them. In the case of minors, the most overwhelming demographic of the victims of the grooming gangs, consent can never legally be given to any type of sexual interaction. The opinions of social workers and police officers that some of the girl victims had made “lifestyle choices” in being ensnared in the clutches of their abusers are all the more outrageous considering this legal reality; such attitudes represent the most basic safeguarding failures. The ethnicity and heritage of the perpetrators cannot be ignored as a major local factor in the systematic child sexual abuse that occurred in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oldham, Telford, and other places.
Accusing opposition MPs of “jumping on a bandwagon” and “amplifying what the far right is saying” to gain attention, Sir Keir yesterday issued a stout defence on CSE while DPP. He introduced a special prosecutor for child abuse and sexual exploitation to oversee convictions; changed CPS guidelines to encourage police to investigate suspects in complex sexual abuse cases and brought in court reforms at making proceedings less traumatic for victims. He also said he reopened cases and brought the first “Asian grooming gang” prosecution in Rochdale and called for mandatory reporting of child sex abuse incidents.[5]
Leaving aside the political firestorm that has erupted in Britain over these most harrowing events, it is necessary to state what should be the patently obvious about the nature and dynamics of child sex exploitation. It is first of all a manifestation of patriarchal and misogynistic power at its most criminally obscene. All acts of rape are acts of abusive power exercised in the most intimate of settings. No victim of rape can ever be held to be responsible for their violation; they can never be held to have given consent to the violence done to them. In the case of minors, the most overwhelming demographic of the victims of the grooming gangs, consent can never legally be given to any type of sexual interaction. The opinions of social workers and police officers that some of the girl victims had made “lifestyle choices” in being ensnared in the clutches of their abusers are all the more outrageous considering this legal reality; such attitudes represent the most basic safeguarding failures. The ethnicity and heritage of the perpetrators cannot be ignored as a major local factor in the systematic child sexual abuse that occurred in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oldham, Telford, and other places.
It is undeniable that many of the offenders emerged from a milieu of Pakistani village culture in which women are treated as of less human worth than men. A disproportionate amount of South Asian heritage men work in the nighttime economy of the towns and cities where the abuses occurred; as taxi drivers and owners of fast-food outlets which gave them easier access to their prey. The crimes of these predators were racialised as they viewed their victims as “slags,” “poor white trash” and “asking for it.”
Racist attitudes and behaviour are always characterised by sexual fantasies, stereotyping or degradation of the targeted category. Less than a generation ago, these girls, as “clients” of the care system, would have been demonised as “fallen” or “sinful” by the host Christian culture and accordingly abused by their “care” takers. Prejudices not a million miles from the “lifestyle choices” judgementalism of Social Services. Convenient vessels into which emotionally stunted but entitled males from a village patriarchy could project their perverted sexuality into. Also, the vulnerability of young women in South Asian communities to the depredations of predatory males seem to be absent from the radar of the bandwagon jumpers in the Tory leadership, Reform UK, and Elon Musk.
That there was a reluctance amongst local police chiefs and Labour politicians to acknowledge the racialised dimensions of the crimes of the grooming gangs. A further review in 2015 of the 2014 independent review into the sexual abuse of children that had occurred in Rotherham over 16 years which found that at a conservative estimate 1,400 children, mostly in the care of the state, had been raped and abducted by organised gangs of mostly Pakistani men, led by renowned troubleshooter Louise Casey who observed that the abusers were able to hide behind their race to commit their abuse and that councillors and staff fearing being labelled racist if they mentioned their ethnicity.
That there was a reluctance amongst local police chiefs and Labour politicians to acknowledge the racialised dimensions of the crimes of the grooming gangs. A further review in 2015 of the 2014 independent review into the sexual abuse of children that had occurred in Rotherham over 16 years which found that at a conservative estimate 1,400 children, mostly in the care of the state, had been raped and abducted by organised gangs of mostly Pakistani men, led by renowned troubleshooter Louise Casey who observed that the abusers were able to hide behind their race to commit their abuse and that councillors and staff fearing being labelled racist if they mentioned their ethnicity.
The statutory independent inquiry into child sexual abuse (IICSA) which reported in 2022 did highlight the failure to collect data on the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims, and expressed concern that this lack of data would hinder the police in taking preventative action.[6] It must also be said that the first national politician to publicise the activities of a predominantly Asian grooming gang was Anne Cryer, former Labour MP for Keighley. She reportedly had a panic alarm installed in her home after adverse reaction to her act of whistleblowing. Another Yorkshire Labour MP, Sarah Campion, was forced to resign from the front bench after giving an interview to the Sun newspaper in 2017 which was titled (unfortunately or not) 'Pakistani Men are Raping White Girls.' So, this has been difficult terrain for Labour politicians to negotiate.
But it is a long leap from the timidity of local politicians and police chiefs to say the unsayable, to accuse the current Labour government of deliberate malfeasance in not calling for a public inquiry into the grooming gangs' reign of terror because of a supposed dependence of Labour ministers like Jess Phillips on the ‘Muslim vote’. It is also a gross extrapolation of local failures into the scenario that Robert Jenrick, Shadow Justice Minister, who describes of these crimes being “legalised and actively covered up to prevent disorder” because of the potential damage to community relations due to the Pakistani heritage of the perpetrators. Of course, children’s rights and welfare come second to Jenreich’s real agenda: “to hammer the final nail in the coffin of Britain as an integration success story” and to narrate “the scandal” that “started with the onset of mass migration” which entailed:
But it is a long leap from the timidity of local politicians and police chiefs to say the unsayable, to accuse the current Labour government of deliberate malfeasance in not calling for a public inquiry into the grooming gangs' reign of terror because of a supposed dependence of Labour ministers like Jess Phillips on the ‘Muslim vote’. It is also a gross extrapolation of local failures into the scenario that Robert Jenrick, Shadow Justice Minister, who describes of these crimes being “legalised and actively covered up to prevent disorder” because of the potential damage to community relations due to the Pakistani heritage of the perpetrators. Of course, children’s rights and welfare come second to Jenreich’s real agenda: “to hammer the final nail in the coffin of Britain as an integration success story” and to narrate “the scandal” that “started with the onset of mass migration” which entailed:
importing hundreds of thousands of people from alien cultures, who possess medieval attitudes towards women, brought us.[7].
Child sex abuse is a uniquely horrific and depraved form of criminality. It’s incidence and global reach spans religious and state institutions, the world of sports coaching, music, arts and of course the family. It drags into its net children vulnerable through class, lack of appropriate sex education, excessive trusting of adults or desire to succeed in realising sporting or artistic success as the harrowing stories of abused young footballers, gymnasts, swimmers etc attest to. It is a crime of patriarchy and misogyny not of any one religion or ethnic group. It should never be exploited as a political dog whistle or as a weapon in the pursuit of a culture war as the figures mentioned in this article have unashamedly done. The tenor of the questions in the House of Commons today after the statement by Home Secretary Yvette Cooper on Child Sexual Exploitation in the unanimity of opinion across the parties in revulsion at the crime and determination to tackle it contrasts to the despicable interventions by Elon Musk, Herr Jenreich, Badenoch Powell and Deform UK; to the spreading of lies and misinformation by these malicious actors.
Cooper has announced action on three of Prof Jay’s recommendations. A recommendation for those working with children to face mandatory requirements to report abuse would be enacted via an amendment to the upcoming Crime and Policing Bill this spring. She also said that grooming would become an aggravating factor in the sentencing of abuse cases and promised an “overhaul” of the information and evidence gathered on child sexual abuse and exploitation. [8] Hopefully, this will address the lacunae on statistics related to perpetrators and victims and other sensitive issues.
The amplifying of fake news, misinformation and conspiracism has been taken to new and unprecedented levels with the intervention of Donald Trump’s eyes and ears in the politics of what will soon become the confirmed junior partner of the “Special Relationship.” It was an intervention calculated to ignite a veritable hate fest around race, wokeness and immigration using the unspeakable crime of child sex abuse as fodder. It is to be hoped that Keir Starmer will continue to bring the passion he showed today in his defence of his time as DPP and in refuting the lies of Badenoch, Jenrick, Reform UK and He Who Cannot Be Mentioned whenever lies from the Alt-Right circulate in the public domain. He might try eviscerating others of their narratives such as Brexit and immigration.
[1] Rajeev Ryal and Kiran Stacey. '"Calls for Rochdale grooming gang inquiry condemned as ‘political manoeuvring".' Guardian 5th January 2025.
[2] Ibid
[3] Ibid
[4] Rajeev Syal. X owner politicising girls’ abuse, says woman who exposed grooming ring Guardian 4th January 2025.
[5] BBC. Starmer attacks ‘those spreading lies’ on grooming gangs. 6 January 2025
[6] 'Child sexual abuse. Failed at every turn, our children deserve better.' The Observer Editorial 5 January 2025.
[7] Peter Walker Badenoch defends Jenrick over his ‘alien cultures’ comment. Guardian 6th January 2025.
[8] Sam Francis and Henry Zeffman. Starmer attacks those ‘spreading lies’ on grooming gangs. bbc.news.co.uk 6 January 2025.
⏩Barry Gilheany is a freelance writer, qualified counsellor and aspirant artist resident in Colchester where he took his PhD at the University of Essex. He is also a lifelong Leeds United supporter.
While another fine piece Barry,
ReplyDeletehere is a somewhat different view of Starmer The police whistleblower was scathing of him. I find him so untrustworthy that it is difficult to see anything other than self serving platitudes in what he says.
Anthony, I note and respect what Maggie Oliver says but I need to add two postscripts to what I have written. First, a 39 year old man has been arrested on three counts of sending threatening messages to Jess Phillips who has been the target of so many rape and other threats that she has a permanent panic alarm. This is what happen when language such as "genocidal rape apologist" made by powerful people filters down the chain of communication to the thugs and race baiters. Jess has few equals when it comes to battling for the rights of women and girls against the femicidal elements in society.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, when Reform deputy leader Richard Tice (or Dick Lice) tweeted that grooming gangs were a "horrific stain" on the establishment, the Rotherham survivor Sammy Woodhouse replied that she had offered six months previously to work with him on child sex exploitation but that "you didn't give a shit". Further proof that the far right are only interested in child sex exploitation as a means of racialising the issue. They have a proprietorial view of ("our") women who they see as perpetual prey for "alien" cultures. Genuine feminist and anti child abuse campaigners view women as autonomous human beings who have to battle sexism in all its forms.
I think it is well understood what the far right is trying to do. I was more raising the point about Starmer.
DeleteWhilst it is true that these gangs exist it is also true that that most such gangs are white. The problem is not about identifying the origin of the gangs but that EDL types have tried to paint a picture that is not true, rape of children cuts across all groups in Britain and rather than concern for the children it is being weaponised. Strangely enough one politician who did speak out at the time against the rape of children in Rochdale etc, was George Galloway. The recent case of 31 people in Bolton all of whom are white is not treated in the same light as Rochdale etc, In fact their background is not mentioned at all. One of the problems with all of this, is that is strengthens the hand of abusers within communities and sets up those who fight within those communities as enemies.
ReplyDeleteI think the most important issue is the reason why the matter was either not addressed or covered up. If it is because the state does not want to offend religious sentiment that raises serious challenges to a society that claims to be secular.
DeleteThe reports indicate that it was failure per se about child welfare and not failure because of ethnic sensitivities. Child welfare services in Britain have a notorious record from ignoring children to being over zealous and accusing parents who have done nothing wrong and of that there have also been scandals. There is an attempt to weaponise this by the right as if child services only overlooked abuse by Pakistanis when in fact they have overlooked abuse by one and all.
ReplyDeleteIt seems the bulk of offenders were from the Pakistani community. Others were involved but not to the same extent. The Gordon Brown 2008 memo recommending no action because of lifestyle choices suggests a serious deference to multicultural concerns. The right are successful in weaponising these things if the Left sit on their hands. There is a need to challenge political correctness with factual correctness. While not in tune with the thinking of Julie Bindell, I think she had something worthwhile to say on this:
DeletePartly as a result of liberal Leftists refusing to engage with the grooming gang phenomenon in case they offended the multiculturalists, bona fide racists took the story and ran with it, distorting it to the point where child sexual abuse was ignored in favour of a narrative about immigration.
In Rochdale, but the report spoke of institutional failure across the board amongst all communities including white Brits.
ReplyDeleteThere was institutional failure. I am thinking about the extent to which that failure was driven by multicultural concerns. I think a proper inquiry might be the best way to drill down.
DeleteBut there was a report into, none of its recommendations were implemented. Part of the hysteria is like there was no report and the Tories, not Labour were responsible for not implementing the recommendations.
ReplyDeleteFrom 2013 there have been ten inquiries into child grooming gangs. They tend to show a police reluctance to act on what they knew because of a fear of stoking racial tensions. The 2020 Home Office report which claimed there was no overrepresentation of one societal group or culture in the abuser camp was widely rubbished as a whitewash or cover up. The Rotherham report of 2014 laid most of the blame on Pakistani men for the abuse of 1400 children over a 17 year period.
DeleteI feel that suggests there is no even distribution of culpability here. They were all at it does not fly. Indeed they were but to different degrees.
This is what sits at the heart of the One Law For All movement that Maryam Namazie is involved in.
I don't know if you ever came across the Cock sucking Jews phenomenon. The US cops were allowing this vile sexual abuse to continue because of multicultural sensitivity issues. These guys are no different from Rotherham rapists.
Multiculturalism is a failed experiment. A society of multiethnicities is a great thing. This stuff is easily exploited by the Right for political coin but society needs to look at itself very critically and ask ITSELF why it failed to protect those victims before pointing fingers.
ReplyDeleteAnd far harsher punishments for crimes such as these must be considered as a deterrent.
Steve - I think that perspective has been making itself heard in more recent times without cancel culture being able to suffocate it. Kenan Malik, I believe has made similar points. The far right just don't despise multiculturalism but multiethnicity as well.
DeleteThere's a pushback against the cancel culture here in the melting pot of ethnicity that is Australia. A few years ago one of the main supermarket chains decided to not sell Australian flags just before Australia Day for fear of upsetting a tiny minority ( who do have a legitimate grievance-First Nations view it as "Invasion Day").
DeleteAll this did was ensure that a massive bell of patriotism was rung and I'd never seen as many flags and I've been to the 12th!
Australia works and is multiethnic. It would be an entirely different place if it was multicultural. SE Asians, Europeans and all others live quite peaceably side by side. Those who create what little trouble there is are invariably from a particular community, but even they are in a tiny minority.
Cancel Culture is just plain old fashioned censorship. The Board of Film Censors could police what we watched and now in its latest manifestation, the Board of Banned Words can police what we listen to. Cancel Culture slots neatly in the 14 point fascist model laid out by Umberto Eco where 'Thinking is a form of emasculation.'
DeleteNo one is denying that Pakistani men raped young girls. What is being said is that the Tommy Robinson idea of them getting away with it because of the ethnicity doesn't fly. Feminists like Julie Bindel had been pointing out the abuse since the 1990s and were ignored as TR didn't see any political capital in it. The Jay Report in 2014 also dealt with the racial element. As Prof Jo Phoenix, one of the women who worked on this issues pointed out in a recent article. "However, Jay’s 2014 report into Rotherham conclusively stated that there was “no evidence of children's social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE”. It is simply not the case that the problem of child sexual exploitation and the woefully inadequate manner in which it has been policed over the decades can be attributed to Muslim Pakistani men or the fear of being called a racist for acknowledging this. To claim such is a terrible generalisation that relies on negative stereotyping of Muslim men as much as it relies on negative stereotyping of men of South Asian heritage. Negative stereotyping is the basis of racist claims. To continuously make these claims is misinformation."
ReplyDeleteJust that it is not a Tommy Robinson idea, but one that has been set out in reports, whistleblowers and victims. Sajid Javid was making the charge long before TR.
DeleteTR and the far right latched onto it because it was useful ammo to have in their strategic arsenal.
The issue is to what extent failings on the grounds of multicultural sensitivity opened up space for TR and the far right. From what I can read such sensitivity has been factored into decision making processes.
Across England and Wales the vast bulk of Child Sexual Exploitation very much seems to have been perpetrated by those from a white background. That is from where 88% of those prosecuted hailed. So it is important not to frame the general problem as one of Asian rape gangs. It is equally important that when such gangs exist the failure to act is identified rather than masked.
The Telford Report found that teachers who raised the problem of Pakistani youth were themselves accused of being racist by the Council.
While it would be worthless to accuse Jo Phoenix of being a Woketard - she was cancelled by them - even a cursory read of the Jay Report finds the same things repeated on a number of occasions: people were reluctant to tackle what was happening in front of their eyes because of a fear of being labelled racist or in case it empowered the far right. This led to the Report stating that People must be able to raise concerns without fear of being labelled racist.
The flip side of the labelling strategy is that Starmer has taken to accusing people who want a public inquiry of being far right. Anybody that has gone through the North's conflict, will know the difficulty in getting a public inquiry and the pushback from government which relies on labelling to bully people into submission.
In some ways he is the mirror image of Braverman. She labelled for her own political reasons and he does likewise.
Starmer just rehashes Despicable Dave Lammy's 2018 attack on concerns about the ethnicity of perpetrators. He too tried to wave the far right label. If Gaza does not give us a feel for the position of both men on rights, little will.
I believe a path needs to be steered between the two labelling gangs if the problem is ever to be tackled seriously.
Something lost in the mix but well worth considering:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-grooming-gangs
"The Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (Ceop) – the national anti-paedophile police command – divides networks of sex offenders into two groups.
So-called “Type 1 offenders” target young people “on the basis of their vulnerability, rather than as a result of a specific preferential sexual interest in children”.
So-called “Type 2” groups – where the offenders have a long-standing sexual interest in children, were much less common. Only seven known or suspected paedophile rings were reported to Ceop.
Of 52 groups where ethnicity data was provided, 26 (50 per cent) comprised all Asian offenders, 11 (21 per cent) were all white, 9 (17 per cent) groups had offenders from multiple ethnicities, 4 (8 per cent) were all black offenders and there were 2 (4 per cent) exclusively Arab groups.
By contrast, the seven “Type 2 groups” – paedophile rings rather than grooming gangs – “were reported as exclusively of white ethnicity”.
Considerable caution is needed when looking at these numbers, as our sample is very unscientific. There are grooming cases we will have missed, and there will undoubtedly be offences that have not resulted in convictions."
Some good stuff in that Christopher when you drill down behind the link.
DeleteReading this reminded me of something from the Stewart brothers latter day Supergrass trials (https://archive.is/m5t6v#selection-751.1-761.241):
ReplyDelete"Among the list of crimes for which the brothers had negotiated a deal were two charges of having sex with underage schoolgirls.
When challenged on this one of the brothers replied "sure we were all doing it", a glimpse into the kind of vile crimes the state turned a blind eye to. Of the 13 men in the dock it has been alleged that at least four were police informers."
This was picked up by one podcaster - I can't recall who, unfortunately, but otherwise didn't get too much press.
I would imagine the Stewart brothers were Type 1 as per the C4 groupings provided by Christopher Owens above.
No real surprise there - the type of things the cops will give immunity for.
DeleteI don't see where that is the case here.
@ AM
ReplyDeleteThe police aspect wasn't the comparison I was making, I should have been clearer.
I imagine the Stewart brothers and their associates would have had similar social cohesion, possibly (some of them) similar employment, similar access to drugs/alcohol, nd similar peer group transgressive attitudes to the wretched criminals in Rotherham and elsewhere.
James O'brien did an interesting show on this Subject once where he discussed the role of night time economy employees. I wouldn't shy away from the religious backdrop to much to the criminality but it was part of a catalyst, perhaps a leading catalyst.
Brandon - you were clear enough. More my fault for bringing it back to where I was focussed on. You make a valid point.
Delete