Brandon Sullivan ✒ In the literature available covering the Troubles, the area of sectarian murder of Protestants by Catholics has not received much in-depth attention. 

There will be a number of reasons for this, among them the reticence of republican leaders to acknowledge, let alone rationalise, sectarian murderers within their ranks.

Incidents such as Darkley and, most notoriously, Kingsmill demonstrate Catholics deliberately murdering Protestant civilians. But away from these headline grabbing incidents were scores of murders with one or two victims which, if community of perpetrator and victim were swapped, would have appeared as standard loyalist murder gang modus operandi.

I plan to look at a few of these in depth. Simply, incidents I have managed to gather together some information about that is not included in the most widely read accounts of the troubles.

South Belfast

The murder of Gerard David Turkington – 9th July, 1972

Gerald David Turkington was one of 11 people to die on the 9th July 1972. He was abducted along with another man, named in the Belfast Telegraph as Witness A in Madrid Street and brought to the Markets area of Belfast, where they were both beaten over a period of at least three hours. Witness A also had a tumbler shoved in his face. The brutal treatment meted out to these men was no different to that endured by many nationalist victims of loyalist killers. The Turkington killing stands out for a number of reasons, not least of which is that Witness A survived and gave compelling testimony to his ordeal. But it had other effects.

Turkington was a member of the UDAs “G Company” in East Belfast, and had been on “barricade duty” in East Belfast that night. A former IRA source told me that despite his membership of a loyalist organisation, Turkington’s killing led to anger within the IRA’s Belfast Brigade, which sent a high-ranking member to visit the units involved, warning them that they would be stood down if they killed any more Protestants.

In 1988, a man named Peter Anthony Burns was charged with Turkington’s murder, the attempted murder of Witness A, and a number of other IRA offences. Burns had been living in Burnley, found God, suffered psychiatric issues, and gave himself up, saying to detectives “I shot the Prod, a UDA man.” At Burns’ trial, Witness A was called, and gave testimony as he had done during the 1973 inquest. Burns was found guilty, but the conviction was overruled in 1991 on the grounds that he had been suffering from schizophrenia when interviewed.

1974, a 24 year old man named Peter Anthony Burns was sentenced to three years for arson. He, with others, in January 1972 had burned down a primary school, for what were noted might have been “sectarian reasons.” His rationale in court was that he had “had a row” with his wife. He was arrested in London and brought back to Belfast to stand trial for this action. I could not independently verify if it was the same man charged in relation to the Turkington murder.

Capturing the UDA - 1974

Another East Belfast man, Robert Ronald Trimble, was abducted by IRA members in January 1974. Trimble had entered a pub in a nationalist area and aroused the suspicions of IRA men inside it. The IRA men interrogated Trimble, who named Sammy Tweed as an active UDA man. The IRA sought permission from the IRA leadership in Belfast to kill their captive, but this was denied to them. They tried to kill him anyway, but missed. Trimble, like Witness A two years earlier, had a lucky escape.

Trimble’s naming of Tweed is interesting. Three months later, Tweed escaped from a courtroom where he was answering arms charges. He evaded capture for more than 40 years, but was finally brought before a court in 2012. He was also interviewed, in 2015, as a suspect in the 1972 torture and murder of Patrick Benstead. The Irish News reported that Tweed was a member of a gang which included Albert “Ginger” Baker and Ned McCreery, and which tortured and murdered a number of politically uninvolved Catholics in the early 1970s. The unfortunate Mr Benstead had been tortured with a red hot poker, with the number 4 branded on his back. The Irish News posited that this was a reference to the murder being committed by the “G4” unit of the UDA’s East Belfast bridge. I am unaware about whether this is true. Martin Dillon suggested that the “4” referred to Mr Benstead being the gang’s fourth victim.

A number of DUP politicians, including Peter Robinson, wrote letters in support of leniency for Mr Tweed when he was finally brought to justice for the arms possession trail he escaped from.

North Belfast

The Third Battalion’s sectarian murderers: Killers from Ardoyne.

In 1979, Ardoyne man Brendan Patrick McClenaghan was convicted of four murders, including that of Nicholas “Nick the Brit” White, a former British soldier and community activist who lived in Ardoyne, and the hapless UDA leader Sammy Smyth who opined to a room containing IRA activists that any member of the Catholic community was a legitimate target for murder. Another victim of McClenaghan was a former member of the Parachute Regiment, John Lee, who settled in Mountainview Gardens in Belfast. The 35 year old was shot dead in after leaving the Crumlin Star Social Club, in 1977.

McClenaghan was found not guilty of the murder of James Carberry, a 20 year old Protestant, who worked at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club. According to Lost Lives, on 12th July 1975, Carberry was abducted off a street and taken to the Saunders Club, in Ardoyne. McClenaghan admitted bringing Carberry to a house in Ardoyne, tying him up, and leaving him there. Either at the Saunders Club, or the house in Ardoyne, or both, Carberry was “subjected to violence” and was bound hand and foot with carpet wire, gagged, and blindfolded, before being shot twice in the head near what is now Belfast International Airport, his body being left covered with a “bullet riddled and bloodstained sportscoat.” The drive from Ardoyne to where Carberry was murdered would have taken at least 20 minutes, and it is unclear how long the ordeal he endured prior to his death lasted. A man charged with crimes related to this murder said “He was shouting something when he was on the ground. It sounded like, ‘help me.’”

Again, the brutal nature of Carberry’s demise is similar to that experienced by many nationalist victims of loyalist killers except that, arguably, loyalist murders of this type have been covered more extensively in histories of the troubles. Carberry was a member of the West Belfast UDA, where he is remembered as Jimmy Carberry.

Charged alongside McClenaghan were two other men from Ardoyne: John Joseph Todd, and Norman Patrick Basil Hardy. Along with Brendan McClanaghan, they were all members of the IRA’s Third Battalion. Norman Hardy was acquitted of the Carberry murder but, with Todd and another man named Michael Donnelly, was convicted of a heinous double sectarian murder.

Turkington and Carberry were members of the UDA. That is not to say that either were involved in sectarian actions – there is no evidence for this, though through Carberry’s employment at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club it is likely he will have known many leading loyalist paramilitaries.

In The Times newspaper, 11th November 1974, Robert Fisk wrote that there seemed to be a rise in Catholic gunmen bent on killing Protestants out of revenge. 12 days later, and following an attack on the People’s Garage in which a 20 year old Catholic woman, Geraldine Macklin was murdered, Catholic gunmen made Fisk’s words a grim reality.

The murders of Heather Thompson and George Thomas Mclean were sheer unadulterated sectarian murder. Three Ardoyne Provos went to Edenderry filling station on the Crumlin Road with murder on their minds, and shot dead the 24 year old garage manager, Mr McLean, and garage assistant Ms Thompson.

At trial, according to the Belfast Telegraph, "Hardy said that as a result of murders of Catholics he decided to carry out a retaliation and he approached two friends and told them his intentions." The report also stated that Hardy claimed the murders “had not been done on behalf of a political organisation and were not politically motivated.” Whatever the truth of this statement, it did not stop the men serving their time on the IRA blocks and wings in prison.

Heather Thompson, like John Lee, lived on Mountainview Gardens. A two minute walk away, lived James Carberry on Moutainview Parade. The Ardoyne Provos killed three people from this tiny adjacent pair of streets from 1974 to 1977. A report from December 1976 claimed that Mountainview remained a mixed area, but that people lived in fear.

Brendan McClenaghan was the subject of a “comm” sent out HMP Maze detailing a serious beating he received at the hands of prison warders. He later joined Republican Sinn Fein, and, when asked in 1999 about the possibility of Irish republican bombs going off in England said "Nothing has changed much to suggest to me that it isn't a possibility that something like that could happen again."

Norman Hardy, also known as Basil Hardy, returned to Ardoyne, where his presence was used as an excuse for the Holy Cross attacks on Catholic schoolgirls. Hardy has also been involved in community work, part of which involved cooperating, to an extent, with the PSNI about a savage attack on a member of his local community.

The Provisionals in Ardoyne seemed to be particularly active in sectarian murder in the 1970s. Other killings committed by their members will be covered in the second part, which I am working on now.

⏩ Brandon Sullivan is a middle aged, middle management, centre-left Belfast man. Would prefer people focused on the actual bad guys. 

The Sectarian Murder Of Protestants By Catholics – Part Ⅰ

Brandon Sullivan ✒ In the literature available covering the Troubles, the area of sectarian murder of Protestants by Catholics has not received much in-depth attention. 

There will be a number of reasons for this, among them the reticence of republican leaders to acknowledge, let alone rationalise, sectarian murderers within their ranks.

Incidents such as Darkley and, most notoriously, Kingsmill demonstrate Catholics deliberately murdering Protestant civilians. But away from these headline grabbing incidents were scores of murders with one or two victims which, if community of perpetrator and victim were swapped, would have appeared as standard loyalist murder gang modus operandi.

I plan to look at a few of these in depth. Simply, incidents I have managed to gather together some information about that is not included in the most widely read accounts of the troubles.

South Belfast

The murder of Gerard David Turkington – 9th July, 1972

Gerald David Turkington was one of 11 people to die on the 9th July 1972. He was abducted along with another man, named in the Belfast Telegraph as Witness A in Madrid Street and brought to the Markets area of Belfast, where they were both beaten over a period of at least three hours. Witness A also had a tumbler shoved in his face. The brutal treatment meted out to these men was no different to that endured by many nationalist victims of loyalist killers. The Turkington killing stands out for a number of reasons, not least of which is that Witness A survived and gave compelling testimony to his ordeal. But it had other effects.

Turkington was a member of the UDAs “G Company” in East Belfast, and had been on “barricade duty” in East Belfast that night. A former IRA source told me that despite his membership of a loyalist organisation, Turkington’s killing led to anger within the IRA’s Belfast Brigade, which sent a high-ranking member to visit the units involved, warning them that they would be stood down if they killed any more Protestants.

In 1988, a man named Peter Anthony Burns was charged with Turkington’s murder, the attempted murder of Witness A, and a number of other IRA offences. Burns had been living in Burnley, found God, suffered psychiatric issues, and gave himself up, saying to detectives “I shot the Prod, a UDA man.” At Burns’ trial, Witness A was called, and gave testimony as he had done during the 1973 inquest. Burns was found guilty, but the conviction was overruled in 1991 on the grounds that he had been suffering from schizophrenia when interviewed.

1974, a 24 year old man named Peter Anthony Burns was sentenced to three years for arson. He, with others, in January 1972 had burned down a primary school, for what were noted might have been “sectarian reasons.” His rationale in court was that he had “had a row” with his wife. He was arrested in London and brought back to Belfast to stand trial for this action. I could not independently verify if it was the same man charged in relation to the Turkington murder.

Capturing the UDA - 1974

Another East Belfast man, Robert Ronald Trimble, was abducted by IRA members in January 1974. Trimble had entered a pub in a nationalist area and aroused the suspicions of IRA men inside it. The IRA men interrogated Trimble, who named Sammy Tweed as an active UDA man. The IRA sought permission from the IRA leadership in Belfast to kill their captive, but this was denied to them. They tried to kill him anyway, but missed. Trimble, like Witness A two years earlier, had a lucky escape.

Trimble’s naming of Tweed is interesting. Three months later, Tweed escaped from a courtroom where he was answering arms charges. He evaded capture for more than 40 years, but was finally brought before a court in 2012. He was also interviewed, in 2015, as a suspect in the 1972 torture and murder of Patrick Benstead. The Irish News reported that Tweed was a member of a gang which included Albert “Ginger” Baker and Ned McCreery, and which tortured and murdered a number of politically uninvolved Catholics in the early 1970s. The unfortunate Mr Benstead had been tortured with a red hot poker, with the number 4 branded on his back. The Irish News posited that this was a reference to the murder being committed by the “G4” unit of the UDA’s East Belfast bridge. I am unaware about whether this is true. Martin Dillon suggested that the “4” referred to Mr Benstead being the gang’s fourth victim.

A number of DUP politicians, including Peter Robinson, wrote letters in support of leniency for Mr Tweed when he was finally brought to justice for the arms possession trail he escaped from.

North Belfast

The Third Battalion’s sectarian murderers: Killers from Ardoyne.

In 1979, Ardoyne man Brendan Patrick McClenaghan was convicted of four murders, including that of Nicholas “Nick the Brit” White, a former British soldier and community activist who lived in Ardoyne, and the hapless UDA leader Sammy Smyth who opined to a room containing IRA activists that any member of the Catholic community was a legitimate target for murder. Another victim of McClenaghan was a former member of the Parachute Regiment, John Lee, who settled in Mountainview Gardens in Belfast. The 35 year old was shot dead in after leaving the Crumlin Star Social Club, in 1977.

McClenaghan was found not guilty of the murder of James Carberry, a 20 year old Protestant, who worked at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club. According to Lost Lives, on 12th July 1975, Carberry was abducted off a street and taken to the Saunders Club, in Ardoyne. McClenaghan admitted bringing Carberry to a house in Ardoyne, tying him up, and leaving him there. Either at the Saunders Club, or the house in Ardoyne, or both, Carberry was “subjected to violence” and was bound hand and foot with carpet wire, gagged, and blindfolded, before being shot twice in the head near what is now Belfast International Airport, his body being left covered with a “bullet riddled and bloodstained sportscoat.” The drive from Ardoyne to where Carberry was murdered would have taken at least 20 minutes, and it is unclear how long the ordeal he endured prior to his death lasted. A man charged with crimes related to this murder said “He was shouting something when he was on the ground. It sounded like, ‘help me.’”

Again, the brutal nature of Carberry’s demise is similar to that experienced by many nationalist victims of loyalist killers except that, arguably, loyalist murders of this type have been covered more extensively in histories of the troubles. Carberry was a member of the West Belfast UDA, where he is remembered as Jimmy Carberry.

Charged alongside McClenaghan were two other men from Ardoyne: John Joseph Todd, and Norman Patrick Basil Hardy. Along with Brendan McClanaghan, they were all members of the IRA’s Third Battalion. Norman Hardy was acquitted of the Carberry murder but, with Todd and another man named Michael Donnelly, was convicted of a heinous double sectarian murder.

Turkington and Carberry were members of the UDA. That is not to say that either were involved in sectarian actions – there is no evidence for this, though through Carberry’s employment at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club it is likely he will have known many leading loyalist paramilitaries.

In The Times newspaper, 11th November 1974, Robert Fisk wrote that there seemed to be a rise in Catholic gunmen bent on killing Protestants out of revenge. 12 days later, and following an attack on the People’s Garage in which a 20 year old Catholic woman, Geraldine Macklin was murdered, Catholic gunmen made Fisk’s words a grim reality.

The murders of Heather Thompson and George Thomas Mclean were sheer unadulterated sectarian murder. Three Ardoyne Provos went to Edenderry filling station on the Crumlin Road with murder on their minds, and shot dead the 24 year old garage manager, Mr McLean, and garage assistant Ms Thompson.

At trial, according to the Belfast Telegraph, "Hardy said that as a result of murders of Catholics he decided to carry out a retaliation and he approached two friends and told them his intentions." The report also stated that Hardy claimed the murders “had not been done on behalf of a political organisation and were not politically motivated.” Whatever the truth of this statement, it did not stop the men serving their time on the IRA blocks and wings in prison.

Heather Thompson, like John Lee, lived on Mountainview Gardens. A two minute walk away, lived James Carberry on Moutainview Parade. The Ardoyne Provos killed three people from this tiny adjacent pair of streets from 1974 to 1977. A report from December 1976 claimed that Mountainview remained a mixed area, but that people lived in fear.

Brendan McClenaghan was the subject of a “comm” sent out HMP Maze detailing a serious beating he received at the hands of prison warders. He later joined Republican Sinn Fein, and, when asked in 1999 about the possibility of Irish republican bombs going off in England said "Nothing has changed much to suggest to me that it isn't a possibility that something like that could happen again."

Norman Hardy, also known as Basil Hardy, returned to Ardoyne, where his presence was used as an excuse for the Holy Cross attacks on Catholic schoolgirls. Hardy has also been involved in community work, part of which involved cooperating, to an extent, with the PSNI about a savage attack on a member of his local community.

The Provisionals in Ardoyne seemed to be particularly active in sectarian murder in the 1970s. Other killings committed by their members will be covered in the second part, which I am working on now.

⏩ Brandon Sullivan is a middle aged, middle management, centre-left Belfast man. Would prefer people focused on the actual bad guys. 

58 comments:

  1. Please note that some of these links are to www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk - which requires membership, and a subscription. If anyone wishes to know the date/publication of the referenced article, please let me know here and I will get it to you.

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  2. Sectarian murder is used as a description of those killings during the Troubles in which the victims were not involved in groups which were participating in violence. Uninvolved people murdered purely because of their apparent religious affiliation. Most of the examples in the piece can be condemned as being barbarous, vicious and brutal but that is not synonymous with sectarianism.

    There are many examples of Protestants who were victims of sectarian murder and examples of bombs where the locations were chosen for sectarian reasons. 'Overwhelmingly Protestant areas' were disproportionately chosen for bombs which put property and lives at risk.

    Listing killings of members of combatant groups as sectarian just diminishes the weight of the arguments that can be made against truly sectarian murder. Ultimately lumping non-sectarian killing in with sectarian murder makes it much harder to speak out about sectarianism because it muddies any distinction.

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  3. @ Simon

    Your point has some merit. I have said on this site before that it would be easy to publish a list of sectarian atrocities committed by republican paramilitaries, but it would not be new or original research. So I have carried out research of my own, made some links, checked the publicly available sources, and tried to make some links between events. Whether I succeed or not is up to the reader. This is the first in at least two, at probably more, pieces which will look into this subject area.

    What I want to do with this, and subsequent pieces, is get an idea of the modus operandi of the individuals and units that carried out close quarters sectarian murders of Protestants. Perhaps I should have more clearly stated this. What has become apparent to me is that the leadership at republican battalion and brigade level had significance in terms of sectarian murders. For this reason, the incidents I wrote about here are worth exploring.

    For what it's worth, I think that the IRA unit which abducted Witness A and Mr Turkington would have killed them regardless of Mr Turkington's membership of the UDA. And if the Peter Anthony Burns charged in relation to Mr Turkington's murder is the same person who burned down a Protestant primary school, it demonstrates a willingness to act out on sectarian tendencies.

    Mr Carberry's murder is arguably different - it seems there was a degree of planning that went into it, and his place of work is known to have been a club used by loyalist paramilitaries. I suspect that the Ardoyne Provo's knew this. I included his murder for two reasons. The first is that the brutality and prolonged nature of his abduction and murder was analogous to similar actions committed by loyalists. The second reason is that the people charged with this murder committed nakedly sectarian murders.

    The killing of Mr McLean and Ms Thompson are unambiguously sectarian murders. The background of their killers is relevant to the subject being explored.

    "Ultimately lumping non-sectarian killing in with sectarian murder makes it much harder to speak out about sectarianism because it muddies any distinction."

    Again, your point has some merit, and I will return to it when I look into the bombing of the Bayardo Bar. But what I sought to explore is the existence of IRA units, and who they were comprised of, that would kill Protestants they found themselves in a position to kill.

    What I would say in defence of this piece, is that it is very difficult to add to the literature available. I received information about incidents, explored them, found others bits of information, and tried to form a narrative. This piece was originally longer, but I decided to separate it thematically. I'm writing about three actions for the next piece, two of which were viciously sectarian, and another which, in my opinion was sectarian in nature, but of a different type.

    I hope this contextualises what I published.

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  4. Simon has a point but I still think the article is very strong and that its strength is not diluted by Simon's astute observation.

    At that point in time there was a strong strain of sectarianism weaving its way through the ranks. Belfast was flush with sectarian attitudes. Derry could never understand it.

    Brandon mentions a reluctance by the movement to address the issue - this is evident even to this day when there is still no admission of responsibility for the war crime perpetrated against Protestant civilians that has become known as Kingsmill.

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  5. An excellent article with an awful lot to ponder.

    I do agree with Simon's point: I think it’s dodgy to ascribe sectarianism as the main motivation for attacks involving members of paramilitary organisations. If the likes of Turkington had been lifted on the knowledge that he was UDA, does that make it sectarian or one army taking out a member of another army? I would argue the latter, although it doesn't mean sectarian attitudes didn't play a part.

    Similarly, with the Bayardo Bar attack. If it was true that it was a UVF meeting place (and that Lennie Murphy was in the place ten minutes beforehand), can we say with absolute certainty that the attack was motivated by sectarianism (even though the number of innocent Protestants killed outnumbered the UVF members killed demonstrate that the attack was sectarian)?

    I think one of the reasons the republican movement has trouble acknowledging such incidents is not only because it goes against the “Catholic, Protestant, Dissenter” ethos of Tone, nor because they were used to justify the “civil war” line that the British would propagate but also because of the blurred line between defence and sectarianism. The raison d'etre of the Provos coming into existence was to prevent another August 1969. That would have to entail killing people who were perceived as attacking nationalists. It would be easy for a sectarian Provo to say that he was defending his community. Likewise, it would be just as easy for any loyalist paramilitary to use something like the UVF affiliated Bayardo Bar attack as proof that the Provos were intent on wiping out Protestants. These contradictions need to be considered and cannot be easily explained away as mere sectarianism.


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    1. Wasn't there some justification from republicans that the Bayardo was in retaliation for the Shankill Butchers? Even though it took place three months before the Butchers began their campaign?
      From what I've been told the Bayardo was frequented by paramilitaries - as were a huge number of bars on the road at the time - but it was mainly a civilian venue. The shooting at people standing at a bus or taxi stand outside underlines the sectarian cowboy nature of it.

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  6. Brandon, "For what it's worth, I think that the IRA unit which abducted Witness A and Mr Turkington would have killed them regardless of Mr Turkington's membership of the UDA." Assumption is the mother of all cock-ups. We will never know if they would have murdered him if he wasn't in the UDA. Your point reminds me of commentary on the INLA killing of the RUC man in a gay bar in Belfast which stated the killers would have seen it as a double whammy because he was gay despite there being no evidence of this.

    Nevertheless, we could get lost in arguing and analysing motives, potential motives and parallel universes in which combatants are not combatants but although a good piece and although there was/is undoubtedly sectarianism in Republicanism it was let down by describing killings as sectarian purely because of their barbaric nature.

    All sectarian killings are barbaric due to the innocence or uninvolved status of the victim but not all barbaric killings are sectarian.

    There is much inherently wrong with targeting people for something they have no control over like their religion.

    Equally, torture and barbarity is wrong and all killing is on a spectrum of depravity but if you argue that your examples are sectarian then you should be consistent and say all killings were. That is where your analysis fails as Catholics and Protestants were killed for very similar reasons eg. civilian workers for the security forces yet if Catholics killing Catholics is also described as sectarian the definition becomes redundant.

    Good point about Kingsmill, if it's not recognised as a crime against humanity then there is more of a chance of a similar, unchecked crime occurring in the future. In a conflict, war crimes will always happen but the onus is on actors to prevent and reduce the numbers, extremity and extent of such crimes. This is why an admission would be useful. The victims deserve the truth and justice although Victor's Justice cannot be accepted. We see Victor's Justice across the world in war crimes tribunals where only the losing side is prosecuted.

    I get Brandon's point in analysing barbarity to link it to sectarianism yet many sectarian actions were nowhere near as barbaric as his non-sectarian examples. It is an interesting piece but status of victim is a better method of analysis when determining if a killing was sectarian. Are they a combatant, a prison officer, a politician, a criminal, a member of an illegal armed group or just a uninvolved Catholic or Protestant?

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  7. Simon - at that stage I am not so sure they would have killed Turkington. It is a possibility and the shooting of Louis Hammond a year later suggests a measure of local autonomy. Certainly three years later they would have - just as they killed two Protestant civilians in 1975 in the same area in separate incidents - their killer later a paedophile and informer. We should bear in mind that a number of Protestants gripped by the IRA in 72 were let go. Whatever we may think of Adams, the notion that he would have approved or ordered the killing of Protestants just because they were Protestants is very hard to stand up. I think Turkington was killed because of his UDA membership rather than him being a Protestant. In the Lower Ormeau not far from the Markets, there were quite a few Protestants including shopkeepers. When it was suggested that they be targeted one of my co-accused said Fuck off - I am not shooting Protestant shopkeepers.

    There was a lot of barbarism which was not sectarian. Stakeknife, for example.

    Great comment by the way. Always thoughtful and reflective.

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  8. @ Simon

    "although a good piece and although there was/is undoubtedly sectarianism in Republicanism it was let down by describing killings as sectarian purely because of their barbaric nature."

    If I could challenge this - I did not describe murders as sectarian because of their barbaric nature. I included them in the article for different reasons - the Turkington murder because it angered the Belfast Brigade leadership, and because there is no evidence that Witness A was in the UDA. The Carberry murder because some of those implicated also committed blatant sectarian murders.

    I am not aware of Turkington's activities as a UDA man, but the organisation had many thousands of members at that point in time, and a statistically small minority were involved in violence. I do not consider the killing of Sammy Smyth as remotely sectarian.

    I will concede that the title and presentation of this article does not correspond well with all of its content. With hindsight, I might well have re-written this article making clearer distinctions, and perhaps with different title/sub-headings.

    A significant challenge to this type of article is the resources available. Six months after Turkington's murder, a few minutes walk away in Lisbon Street, republicans severely beat, stabbed and then shot a 32 year old Protestant man named Samuel White. He was not a member of the UDA, and had no link to the security forces. I searched the newspaper archives for more information on this killing, but was unable to find anything beyond his name mentioned in three short articles. Two Protestants stabbed to death in west Belfast in July 1981, George Hall and Robert Campbell, similarly are somewhat lost to history. As I said before, it's possible to list these killings, but they are listed elsewhere, and to create a piece of work, I think it's important to do something new.

    @ Christopher

    Turkington and Witness A encountered a number of men in bush hats and made the fatal assumption that they were UDA men, and in Turkington's case said he was in the UDA, and in Witness A's case, said he was from Sandy Row. I think Carberry was likely targeted because of his employment at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club - but I'm speculating. I find it strange that Carberry's killing is not mentioned in any books on loyalism, in which the Loyalist Club plays a significant part.

    Re The Bayardo Bar

    I'm looking into this for the next piece. I think it was a sectarian bombing, regardless of the fact that it was undoubtedly a bar which counted UVF members as regulars - Dillon recounts Lenny Murphy being detained by the army leaving it in the early hours on the . The attack was always going to kill civilians, and possibly only civilians, and the unit attacking it must have known that. A decision was taken to allow Protestants to die. Arguably that was to intimidate the UVF, or loyalists more generally, but I don't think it can be argued that it was a sectarian decision to attack the bar.

    At the risk to being controversial, I do not think the 1993 Shankill bomb can be described as sectarian - it was a discriminate attempt. Bayardo was an indiscriminate attack.

    The Belfast Telegraph reported that the IRA unit that attacked the Bayardo opened fire on women and children at a bus stop as they fled. I do not think that this happened - I'm looking further into it, but I think it's a myth that's taken hold. I do not think the unit were charged with anything other than the incidents directly relating to the attack on the Bayardo. Happy to be corrected on this, but I think I'm right.

    I will take on board all the comments made so far prior to publishing my next piece.

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  9. Hardly has there been a war without 'War Crimes'.
    If anyone finds one, then that would be newsworthy.

    When necessary conditions for conflict have been laid down and once the genie of violence is let out of the bottle, levels of restraint invariably loosen and become less predictable.

    This happened in Norn Ireland. Though it unfolded on both sides, the campaign waged by Loyalists was quantifiably and qualitatively different to that of Republicans.

    Yes, there were sectarian cases, such as some of those that Brandon highlights but these, when viewed in the totality of the 'Troubles', were exceptions rather than the rule. The Loyalist campaign, on the other hand, was very much more sectarian where people were targeted for no other reason but that of their religion -
    and as Simon has rightly points to, something they had little control over.

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    1. An acknowledgement of war crimes is much better than a denial that they occurred. How to deal with them is another matter. Like yourself, I don't know of a war without them

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    2. 'Queensbury rules' are great for sport.

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    3. does that mean war crimes should be permissible?

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    4. No, but as Simon mentioned there tends to be a bias towards 'Victor Justice'.
      In the real and lived world, rather than the idolised one, once the lid comes off in love & war the rule most adherently followed is 'there're no rules that won't be broken'.

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    5. "The Loyalist campaign, on the other hand, was very much more sectarian where people were targeted for no other reason but that of their religion -"

      Agree, and also makes me wonder how much collusion was really going on then? Where they deliberately steered toward innocent Catholics? Why then were Shinners picked off?

      Delete
    6. Steve - the loyalist campaign at a strategic level was a war crime much in the manner that the terror bombing of German cities was. That is not to insist on the individual loyalists carrying it out were war criminals any more than the pilots were. Collusion is so well established (outside of anything republicans might have to say on it) that there is little point in debating it further. Ed Moloney pointed out in respect of Nelson, his FRU handlers did not care how many Catholics were killed - so long as he steered the operators away from their agents and assets in the IRA.

      Delete
    7. HJ - there is undoubtedly a bias towards the victors. How best to address that bias is something else. Jacques Derrida once asked why Hiroshima was not treated in the same manner as the Holocaust.

      Delete
    8. Though numerically different, Hiroshima & Nagasaki, like the Holocaust, were dastardly acts..

      Delete
  10. @ Henry JoY

    I think that republicans carried out a campaign of sectarian murder of Protestants with no link to loyalism or the security forces, of varying intensity, during much of the 1970s. Whilst numerically much fewer than the opposite campaign by loyalists, the numbers killed were in the scores, and the effects on Protestant families and communities devastating. As I noted in this article, the Ardoyne IRA killed three people within two streets in a short space of time.

    The next incidents that I'm looking at include the murder of the Orr brothers in 1972. The video interviews with their parents, and footage of their funerals is utterly harrowing. Mr Orr describing his wait for news was a demonstrating of what terrorism can look like.

    It was upsetting viewing, and researching these incidents is challenging.

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    Replies
    1. Agreed Brandon. Every death through violent conflict is a tragedy.

      Important to bear in mind though that political violence is the outcome when normal & decent politics is absent or fails.

      Delete
  11. Thanks for the kind comments Anthony. I keep an eye on the Quill and although I don't comment as much, there is great stuff in it these days.

    There is much in what Christopher says regarding the propaganda war and I'd also add the absence of a present day mechanism for adequately dealing with the past.

    Henry JoY's point about sectarianism being the exception rather than the rule works well according to Sutton's Index of Deaths 1968-1993. He broke down victimhood into different categories and although not perfect lists 7-8% of IRA deaths as sectarian compared to 80% of loyalist killings. The comparison is startling.

    However, working off statistics is a cold methodology and that is a reason to give Brandon's work a cautious welcome as it looks at the human side. 7-8% is 8% too great a figure and his work helps explain why.

    I don't give any credence to the point a statistically small minority were involved in violence as the UDA always had thousands of members and the ones not physically pulling the trigger were doing something, from logistical support, targeting, raising money, intimidation or simply swelling the numbers which caused an intimidation factor. To agree to join a terrorist group takes you out of the innocent non-involved civilian category and into the combatant category. Despite them being legal until 1992 they didn't change their behaviour, on the contrary, the law simply changed.

    Furthermore, if someone implicated has carried out other sectarian murders it doesn't necessarily mean the next act is sectarian. This is the type of specious reasoning and conjecture that ruins quite an interesting idea.

    As to what to do about the past we can either learn best practice from countless countries coming out of conflict or we can leave it to the Tories who are not best placed, unbiased or competent enough to do pull it off.

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    Replies
    1. Steve - you would still have to present even a sliver of evidence. Thus far nothing other than opinion. Not as much as a republican or even a state source claiming it was nothing other than an attempt to kill Protestant civilians. It is not as if anybody here is defending the attack.

      Delete
  12. "At the risk to being controversial, I do not think the 1993 Shankill bomb can be described as sectarian - it was a discriminate attempt."

    Absolutely everyone knew that the UDA office upstairs was bugged and no way would it have been used for a meeting. Throwing Adairs name after the fact was just a red herring- the people of the Shankill and Protestant community further afield saw it for what it rightly was- a large bomb placed in a shop packed with Prods.

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    Replies
    1. What was the motive Steve? There is no one here trying to justify it. It was not like Kingsmill or Bloody Sunday where the intent was to massacre civilians. The people who carried it out believed there was enough time to clear the shop and make their own escape. The planners took a terrible risk. The fact that the people planting it got caught up in the blast tells us something. Brandon is trying to look at it dispassionately without conceding anything to those responsible for it. Nor is he trying to minimise the consequences on the people who died.

      Delete
  13. The murder of Protestants to terrorize the shankill community. Understandably so given the abominable violence bestowed by the Loyalist paramilitaries at the time. But let's not roll a turd in glitter, let's call it for what it was. It was an attempt to hit back and hopefully frighten the Huns into submission. Bollocks about targeting the wobbles does not wash, those offices were avoided due to spook bugging for years.

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    Replies
    1. nothing to support that contention other than opinion. Nor would it have been understandable to terrorise the people of the Shankill despite the loyalist onslaught at the time. What it amounted to was an attempt to take out the UDA leadership - the information might have been wholly inaccurate but it is what they believed. I think Brandon may have mentioned in passing to me a few days ago that he had picked up somewhere that RUC Special Branch had commented that the intelligence was accurate. I could be wrong about that as it was a fleeting conversation

      Delete
    2. So at what point do you accept a passing comment by a RUC special branch officer? When it suits? How many provo bombs had faulty timers up until the Shankill? Uncomfortable truths are still truths.

      Delete
  14. I should add I'm impressed Brandon is tackling this subject, though obviously I have very different views on most things. Keep up the good work Brandon. We may butt heads but I respect your conviction.

    ReplyDelete
  15. @ Steve R

    Re: the Shankill bomb,

    If you can access it, the article "Beyond Horror: Terrorist Atrocity and the Search for Understanding - The Case of the Shankill Bombing" is a detailed analysis of the bombing. It was many things, including a "a large bomb placed in a shop packed with Prods" but it was not an overt attempt to kill only Protestant civilians.

    If you are unable to access the article, I could get a copy to you. With respect, it's worth reading.

    Regarding collusion

    I have started to dislike the term - it's too broad and conspiratorial. There are a couple truths uncomfortable to all participants in the conflict:

    1 - Loyalists were extremely bad at successfully targeting and killing republican paramilitaries.

    2. The RUC were more effective at prosecuting loyalists for killing than they were at prosecuting republicans for killing.

    Both of these facts challenge the collusion narrative. However, there is still significant truth to much of the collusion narrative. It's a real mess.

    Elements of the security services valued some lives as more important as others, and some lives as not being important at all. But the fact remains that the hundreds of loyalist lifers did not walk into RUC stations and confess - they were brought to trial by determined RUC officers, and there is an abundance of evidence to suggest that the RUC meted out similar brutality to UDA/UVF members as they did to IRA/INLA.

    Richard O'Rawe in his memoirs recounts hearing the RUC interrogations of some of those convicted of the Shankill Butchers killings, and noting that the RUC were beating them as they did republicans.

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  16. @ AM, Steve R

    I would have to revisit sources to provide a link, but from memory an RUC officer basically agreed with the IRA contention that the difference between a military success and disaster is very thin. The officer described the bomb as being completely fit for purpose in that the blast went up the way, and that goods on the shelves on shops on either side were basically undisturbed. Adams apparently uncharacteristically lost his temper and raged at the IRA leadership that this could have happened.

    The article that I have mentioned thoroughly examines the bombing, the rationale, the prelude, and the aftermath. IRA members, at considerable risk to themselves, were watching the building, and noted the comings and goings of UFF members.

    I do encourage anyone wishing to comment on the Shankill bombing to read the article.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Christy Walsh Comments

    Absolutely some protestants were victims of sectarian murders. An article on such cases would make a valuable contribution to knowledge but I don't think this is it. The author has previously expressed RUC sympathies and has defended their reputation against evidence that it was a predominantly sectarian force. Whereas here he is discounting membership of loyalist paramilitaries because in his opinion/ speculation they were really sectarian killings based of their protestant faith. The author is just not credible. He is a revisionist with a favourable bias toward the RUC in the guise of trying to appear balanced. The fact that some of his opening examples happened to be loyalist paramilitaries tends to undermine his own argument because one might assume that his research did not turn up any better examples or reveal any consistent targeting by Republicans along sectarian motives. In fact, Republican rational was often expressed, to the frustration of IRA volunteers, that they would not be drawn into a tit for tat with loyalists lest their struggle be portrayed by the Brits as warring sectarian communities that Brit peace keepers had to keep apart. A number of INLA members confirmed to me that they got their Intel on the whereabouts and movements of senior Loyalist paramilitaries from IRA members disgruntled by IRA policy that they weren't to be touched. This would tend to debunk any suggestion that the author might make of Republicans being just as sectarian as loyalists but their sectarian nature has been overlooked until he can cast his opinions and speculations on the topic to expose and bring comparisons and balance between the sectarian nature of Republican and Loyalist organisations and their members.

    ReplyDelete
  18. @ Christy Walsh

    This, the first in a series of articles, was in part written as a response to accusations of republican bias by commenters on this blog with loyalist sympathies.

    Re the RUC

    I agree that it was a predominantly sectarian force. It was irreformable, and needed abolished. I have pointed out that the RUC's record of convicting loyalist paramilitaries is impressive, and that as an organisation, the RUC suffered immensely. It is possible to hold all of these views simultaneously and not be "an apologist" for the RUC. To be blunt, I think that "we" (the CNR community) can afford to be magnanimous and nuanced about an organisation that no longer exists, and that took the casualties that it did.

    "The fact that some of his opening examples happened to be loyalist paramilitaries tends to undermine his own argument because one might assume that his research did not turn up any better examples or reveal any consistent targeting by Republicans along sectarian motives."

    There is a grain of truth in this. As I have said, and will say again, I don't see the point of simply listing violent acts - that's been done elsewhere. I write articles because I have made some links, or unearthed some information, or have formed an opinion, that I would like shared with interested parties. For this article, I got some information regarding the reaction to some killings and started working backwards from there.

    It is right there in my article that Turkington and Carberry were members of the UDA:

    "Turkington and Carberry were members of the UDA. That is not to say that either were involved in sectarian actions – there is no evidence for this, though through Carberry’s employment at the Rumford Street Loyalist Club it is likely he will have known many leading loyalist paramilitaries."

    I draw a clear distinction between the killings of Turkington and Carberry and the murders of McLean and Thompson:

    "The murders of Heather Thompson and George Thomas Mclean were sheer unadulterated sectarian murder."

    "This would tend to debunk any suggestion that the author might make of Republicans being just as sectarian as loyalists"

    I have never made this claim, and in fact would not make this claim. In an earlier comment, I said this:

    "I think that republicans carried out a campaign of sectarian murder of Protestants with no link to loyalism or the security forces, of varying intensity, during much of the 1970s. Whilst numerically much fewer than the opposite campaign by loyalists, the numbers killed were in the scores, and the effects on Protestant families and communities devastating."

    I think Simon/Henry JoY's comments about 7-8% of IRA victims being politically uninvolved Protestants is broadly accurate. From memory, I think around 140 politically uninvolved Protestants were murdered by republican paramilitaries. The majority of these murders happened from 1974 - 1976.

    I'm curious about what you think my motives are here?

    Almost all of my articles to date have been criticisms of loyalists, and loyalism. Excuse me for being immodest, but I think my articles on Holy Cross offer a direct challenge to those who seek to explain away that series of atrocities in anything other than deeply sectarian terms. I think my article challenging received opinion on the effectiveness of the so-called "targeted" campaigns of the UVF/UDA from 1989 - 1994 also debunks what I consider dangerous myths loyalists and unionists seek comfort in.

    ReplyDelete
  19. @ Steve R

    I've passed a copy of the analysis onto AM who will pass it onto you.

    A paragraph from it:

    "Although the timer had failed disastrously, casualties could have been much higher but for the fact that the design of the rest of the bomb worked as the IRA had intended. The charge had been shaped so as to explode upward taking out the floors above the fish shop rather than damaging the buildings to either side. In this at least it succeeded and only two people outside of the shop were killed by the bomb. As one senior security source put it: “The difference between that [the Shankill bombing] being a disaster and a stunning success in IRA terms was very marginal. The bomb was designed to direct the blast upwards, and it did—in the fruit shop next door the rows of oranges were hardly disturbed."

    I had forgotten until I re-read the article that Johnny Adair himself acknowledged that he had gone into the building:

    "At roughly 1 p.m. the IRA’s patience was apparently rewarded when Johnny Adair and another man were spotted entering the
    offices. Adair himself supports the IRA claims that the bombers genuinely believed he was in the building. He would later recall: “I know what happened. They spotted me going in earlier. There was someone on that road . . . who witnessed me and Winkie Dodds going in.”

    ReplyDelete
  20. Adair went in and out, picked up a prison pass to visit Skell. Nobody was having a meeting there. Talking about shaped charges is asinine, we are talking about bringing an fucking bomb into a shop on a busy Saturday afternoon. Trying to insinuate that the provos had some sort of duty of care let down by a faulty timer is frankly insulting, as is the other oft told excuse that when an op went sideways it was due to Brits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Steve - when in a hole stop digging. There is nobody interested in getting one over on you here. There is just no evidence to back up your view no matter how passionately held. The IRA did much worse than the Shankill bomb and nobody here is making excuses for any of it.

      Delete
    2. There's no evidence that the shankill bomb was anything other than attack on the Protestant community. Whether you believe it or not, that's how it's viewed by my community.

      Delete
    3. As you haven't progressed your argument any further, perhaps best left at that.

      Delete
    4. AM maybe emotion got the run of me there, my bad. Hard when that day is so clear in my memory. Peace.

      Delete
    5. you are not the first of us here to experience that sort of emotional reaction - it was a horrendous incident that could have been avoided. While I do not believe it was intentional it is hard to assert that it had no sectarian element. Myself and Robert who used to comment here once discussed this type of thing. I think there were risks taken that would not have been taken on the Falls. Although the IRA was not beyond killing people in botched operations there as in the Falls Baths bombing.

      Delete
  21. Hi Anthony,

    Generally speaking, how did you view Protestant unionist civilians as a young man? Did you hold sectarian views?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. too long ago to remember!!

      Yes, I did. Very much so.

      Delete
    2. Danny

      In fairness I was a wee bigot too. Product of the times and whatnot. Nowadays I haven't even thought about Norn Iron religion for well over a decade (though I'm always highly suspicious of evangelical Prods!), and given the Philosophical tool that TPQ is for Anthony I suspect he is similar. We grow and there's no shame in self critiquing our youth.

      Delete
  22. Interestingly, and often overlooked, the IRA bombed two pubs in loyalist areas in the run-up to the ceasefire, in 1994:
    https://apnews.com/article/7f3d52633b51aa9db75beba7a892d9db

    ReplyDelete
  23. @ Steve R

    I don't think that you want your mind changed about the motivations behind the Shankill bombing, but here's an example of a loyalist operation which changed from a discrete operation against paramilitary individuals to mass murder of civilians: (available here: https://balaclavastreet.wordpress.com/page/2/)

    "The attack on the Avenue Bar by the UVF in May 1988 is often held to be the first of such events (indiscriminate sectarian gun attacks on bars - 'spray jobs'), but in reality it was somewhat different. Two UVF men had gained entry to the pub looking for Joe Haughey and an associate who will not be identified. Eyewitnesses spoke of how the men seemed nervous and appeared to be looking for someone, checking the corners and even the bar’s toilets. Patrons soon realised that two loyalists were in their midst. Reports of what happened next are conflicting: at some point customers pelted the men with bottles and glasses and the loyalists opened fire, killing three young nationalists with no connection to the IRA."

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    1. Not sure of your point Brandon? I've briefly skimmed over the link you sent Anthony (thanks by the way) and this bit leaped out at me.

      "Second, it quickly emerged that 1 of the 10 people killed was an IRA member, and
      another man wounded in the bombing was under guard in hospital. This was significant
      because it had become relatively rare for the IRA to lose people to their own devices. In
      the previous 3 years the IRA had successfully exploded some 580 bombs in the North
      without losing anyone. The last time that had happened was in February 1989, when
      Joseph Connolly, a 20-year-old member of the West Tyrone IRA, died 24 hours after
      suffering massive injuries when a booby trap bomb he was preparing exploded prematurely near the house of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) reservist for which it was
      intended. A more recent failure, this time in England, was in 1991 when Frank Ryan
      was killed when the bomb he was planting exploded. So uncommon had it become for
      IRA bombs to kill their own within Ulster though, that for a while after the Shankill
      explosion there was even some speculation that the bombing had been a deliberate attempt to kill the two men carrying it.15"

      This is among the reasons I believe it was nothing more than a sectarian attack. I've little doubt that Kelly and Begley would have shot anyone who interfered with their plans . And if they did watch Adair as they claim they would have seen him leave too but pushed ahead with it anyway. I'm away in the Bush at the minute but will read the document in it's entirety when I get a chance, thanks for sending me it, and more power to you for tackling this subject.

      Delete
  24. The point I was making with the Avenue Bar murders is that it started off as a discrete attempt to kill republican paramilitaries, but the UVF members panicked and shot indiscriminately. I always assumed it was simply a loyalist 'spray job' - Balaclava Street is a blog that I trust. Now, I have views about the UVF members who carried out this operation, and consider it murder, but I also accept that sectarian slaughter was not the intention of this particular operation.

    Begley and Kelly were not doing the surveillance. Other IRA members were. The article details how UDP politicians accompanied by unnamed UFF leaders went into the UDA offices, and that the surveillance team contacted their OC to confirm that killing UDP members were outside the scope of the operation that they were undertaking.

    IRA members watched Adair and Dodds (and possibly others) enter the building, and then left to alert the bomb team, who planted the bomb with awful results. I think I can say that the bombing was an act of callous stupidity and that not be contradictory to rejecting that it was a sectarian attack.

    I think the Bayardo was a sectarian attack. The death toll of Frizzell's was higher, but the plan put together by the IRA was designed to limit, not maximise, civilian casualties.

    I'll be very interested in your thoughts on the article once you've read it. It does not paint the IRA in a favourable light, and highlights the possibility of sectarian actions being taken against Protestants unless the Belfast Brigade tackled the UDA and UVF in the city.





    Kelly and Begley very likely would have shot anyone who got in their way. But I

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    1. Brandon,

      I've read that article you sent me and there seems to be a fair size of it not backed up with sources? Is this the way you found it too? The author makes claims without references and in one case refers to himself...as a reference. Other parts I found interesting..

      "Regardless, it is clear that the IRA’s surveillance team genuinely believed he was
      inside."

      Oh really? They would have seen him leave if they were watching the offices. I can take he point that the IRA were under pressure to hit back so pushed ahead but that doesn't diminish the sectarian nature of it and only adds to it's horror.

      Delete
  25. I thought that it was reasonably well referenced, and that the background it went into on the failed IRA operations (opposite Adair's home for example) suggested that the author had good sources. It would also have been peer reviewed - though that it not fool-proof.

    I actually think the article highlighted how risk averse the IRA was: when the risk was to its own members or its international reputation.

    I don't think there's a gotcha moment, or a piece of evidence that will conclusively prove of disprove either of our interpretation, and that's OK. My reading of it was that the surveillance team saw what they considered prime targets going into the building, and as previously arranged, left to notify the bomb team.

    The article also detailed that a gun team could have moved to shoot UFF members, similar to when Adair and Big Donald were wounded in 1994, but they were pressing ahead with a "spectacular."

    I think that on this blog, as in all spaces where atrocities are examined, we ask too much of other people. I am at a remove from the Shankill bomb - it didn't touch me as I believe it has touched you.

    As an aside, I think the article demonstrated just what a terribly dangerous game C Company were playing. Had the Provo Belfast Brigade split, or had members undertake sectarian actions of their won, Adams' peace strategy could have been derailed, and Belfast could have been plunged into a 1970s style horror.

    Gerry Bradley believed there were political reasons why the Provos didn't wipe out Adair and C Company. Personally, I think the Adams strategy involved running down the Provo capacity (the comparative strength of loyalists and republicans is noted in the article). But paramilitary groups are remarkably resilient, and had the troubles gone on, I'm quite sure the Provo Belfast Brigade would have regained the initiative, as they seemed to be doing in 1994 with regards to loyalist paramilitaries.

    Thanks for taking the time to read it.

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    Replies
    1. Brandon,

      That's my point, who are the sources? Without those it's Hitchen's Razor, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

      "I think that on this blog, as in all spaces where atrocities are examined, we ask too much of other people. I am at a remove from the Shankill bomb - it didn't touch me as I believe it has touched you."

      It did in a very real way, but nothing as unnerving as the happenstance that made me miss the Omagh bomb. One week earlier to the exact time I was parked nearly exactly where that one was and I almost put off a job til the following week which would have erased me.

      But keep up your good work. We don't often agree but what you do is important.

      Stevie

      Delete
  26. Stevie,
    What jumped out at me was this..

    This was significant because it had become relatively rare for the IRA to lose people to their own devices. In the previous 3 years the IRA had successfully exploded some 580 bombs in the North.....So uncommon had it become for IRA bombs to kill their own within Ulster though, that for a while after the Shankill explosion there was even some speculation that the bombing had been a deliberate attempt to kill the two men carrying

    On Wolfies TPQ piece It's The Protocol, Stupid, I said this about the Shankill bombing.

    The only thing that went wrong for the British in the Shankill bombing was Sean Kelly came out alive. Read an article that Anthony wrote for TPQ called Short fuse. In the comments...read what itsjustmacker and Feel te love had to say about the operation and a 'short fuse', remember that was 2013.

    From The Independent 2016 Shankill Road bomb: IRA double-agent 'deliberately set device to explode prematurely'. Read the article, in part it reads......

    Ex-IRA prisoners say they strongly believe “AA” was given the go-ahead by his handlers to “jark” the device. Asked how this could have been done, one former prisoner said: “It would have been easily booby-trapped. Those carrying it would not have known the timer could have been altered. They would have been given 45 seconds to clear the premises and then detonate the device, giving them time to also get out, but not those upstairs who were the target. But, if it was a time-lag switch, it could have been secretly adjusted, without a doubt.”

    But “AA” is said to have confessed recently that he had had possession of the bomb used in the Shankill Road in October 1993 before it was handed over to Begley and Kelly. One ex-Belfast prisoner said: “This will be totally devastating for the IRA’s credibility. It raises massive questions for the state, as to what extent it allowed its own citizens to die, who made those decisions and can they ever be made amenable.........."

    Again 2016 the police watchdog was..." probing claims that the senior IRA operative who planned the 1993 Shankill Road bombing was an informant who passed on details that could have allowed the security forces to prevent the atrocity."

    Ultimate blame for the Shankill bomb lies at the door of MI5....Ask yourself one simple question Stevie..."What had the Provisionals to gain from planting a bomb in the middle of the Shankill Road....?" Thomas Begley and Sean Kelly were nothing more than pawns and the nine innocent people who lost their lives along with the scores injured and maimed for life were nothing other than collateral damage to the British. The piece that Brandon sent you, that didn't have any sources for you to fact check, put into any browser "MI5 agent Shankill bombing" and you will have lot's of sources that fact check.

    On Wolfies protocol piece you had this to say about the Loyalist feud on the Shankill....

    That was the UVF targeting Adairs 'C' company of scumbags who were in alliance with Portadown traitors. Should have stiffed the lot of them if you asked me.

    If the Shankill bombing had of been text book like Warrenpoint and only members of the UDA/UFF lost theirs lives.....Would you have lost any sleep? Or does 'stiff the lot of them' mean any Loyalist who brought fear, terror, death to the Shankill in the 2000 feud?

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    Replies
    1. Brandon/Anthony

      In "a Short Fuse ",

      "...When a public figure gave out privately to the Belfast Brigade about the unsuitable timing mechanism he was reminded - lest he conveniently had no recollection - of his attendance at the army council meeting that approved the operation."..AM

      Yet in the article Brandon offered..

      "As the Shankill Bombing was never intended to be a “spectacular” operation (but
      was instead part of ongoing attempts to assassinate known leaders of the loyalist paramilitaries)
      permission to carry out the attack did not need to be sought from the IRA’s Army
      Council or general headquarters.32 Had such permission been necessary however, the
      operation almost certainly would have been abandoned in view of the incredibly high
      risk to civilian life, and the impact a disaster would have on the republican movement'

      Was the Shankill authorized by the Army Council or not? And the public figure I would take it to mean a Shinner of which 2 were known to be on the AC at that time?
      as a whole."

      Delete
  27. Stevie

    I can take he point that the IRA were under pressure to hit back so pushed ahead but that doesn't diminish the sectarian nature of it and only adds to it's horror.

    The only people the IRA were under pressure from in Oct 1993 was Mi5/British Gov to call it a day and wind up the conflict. I know that most people buy into the narrative that it was a blatant sectarian attack on the Shankill but the truth is it was classic British State Terrorism. By 1993 the British were on top of all the paramilitaries, they had informers and agents in place from the late 80's, throw into the mix they had state of the art technology.

    My understanding of the Shankill bombing goes like this. Sean Kelly and Thomas Begley were told to pick up a bomb and place it in Frizzels with the sole objective to take out the UDA/UFF leadership (the same people who you wanted 'stiffed' during the 2000 feud in the Shankill Stevie). I also believe they were both told that there is more than enough time to clear the shop and for both to make a clean get-away. I am convinced that the fuse was tampered with to cause maximum carnage and no one was meant to come out alive.

    Omagh was almost the same M.O. that also could have been prevented Stevie. In 1996 Mi6 had a meeting with the FBI in Langley ( I've linked the document on TPQ years ago, I will try and find the link) ....Short version is American spooks were starting to draw up their plans for the war on terror/PNAC document and they told Mi6 that the cease fire has to hold, they offered one of their agents to infiltrate the RIRA. I know it sounds far fetched but truth is stranger than fiction.

    The biggest directors of sectarian terrorism during the conflict.....The British.

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    1. Frankie.

      " (the same people who you wanted 'stiffed' during the 2000 feud in the Shankill Stevie). "

      Only C Company Frankie! LOL

      Delete
    2. Frankie,

      That comes across as nothing more than another attempt to "Blame the Brits" when something goes wrong. It's an attempt at absolving those who built the device and carried it into a shop full of civilians. Hell even the comment you draw my attention too says Kelly would have shot anyone who interfered, and Begley was ..." ..Others were less complimentary in their descriptions
      of the young bomber. Some expressed surprise that the IRA had allowed Begley to join
      their ranks—in their views he was an unpopular thug held in low regard in the area. As
      one source put it: “I never thought I’d see the day when the IRA used people like
      him.”

      Delete
  28. @ frankie

    I think Omagh was a standard commercial car-bombing that went catastrophically wrong. Because of the appalling carnage that ensued, it has been studied extensively. But it was only ever intended to be a car-bomb with a warning that caused significant commercial damage.

    Likewise, I think the most likely suggestion for the civilian death-toll with the Shankill bomb in 1993 was a mixture of careless and callous planning and human error. It's tempting after-the-fact to see theories that justify what actually happened, but what actually happened wasn't meant to happen.

    Whilst considering this comment, something occurred to me. The mere fact that the IRA planted the Shankill bomb indicates that the loyalist campaigns of violence didn't work (if an aim of the loyalist campaigns was to defend loyalist areas, and/or inhibit IRA attacks). The IRA were not inhibited by fear of reprisal against themselves individually, or against the wider community.

    If the IRA wanted a sectarian bloodbath, I think that they would have bombed a couple of loyalist bars, but without the courtesy of a warning first.

    Out of interest, does anyone know when the UVF on the Shankill first identified C Company as a potential problem, and why they didn't take strong action when they did?

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    1. "Out of interest, does anyone know when the UVF on the Shankill first identified C Company as a potential problem, and why they didn't take strong action when they did?"

      When Adair started associating with Wright and his gang of hoods in the LVF. There was supposed to be a Loyalist show of strength on the Shankill but under the proviso that no LVF symbols to be shown. Daft Dog thought he'd be clever and unfurled an LVF flag outside the Rex bar. Cue a rumble. He wanted to drag the UVF into his shit with the rest of UDA but after a few forced evictions and one or two knocked over the UVF and the rest of the UDA turned on Adair especially after he took out Gregg.

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  29. Brandon,

    Omagh, The Shankill bombing, Dublin and Monaghan all directed by British state terrorists. Thats what police reports and official documents lead me to believe. Ask yourself why are the British again changing the goal posts on legacy? Think it's to protect sectarian killers in their ranks? I know they didn't the legacy goal posts to protect paramilitaries......

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    1. Dublin and Monaghan were certainly UVF/security force collusion operations. Not so Omagh. Despite the monumental cock up in intel, responsibility for the 31 deaths in my native town that dark day lie with the Real IRA operatives who gave deliberately vague warnings as to the location of the bomb. Just like Bloody Friday, Enniskillen, Claudy, Coleraine etc.

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