tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post6179837185012974856..comments2024-03-28T04:50:14.406+00:00Comments on TPQ: The Sectarian Murder Of Protestants By Catholics – Part ⅠAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14358479108434663322022-05-31T03:30:28.658+01:002022-05-31T03:30:28.658+01:00Frankie,
That comes across as nothing more than a...Frankie,<br /><br />That comes across as nothing more than another attempt to "Blame the Brits" when something goes wrong. It's an attempt at absolving those who built the device and carried it into a shop full of civilians. Hell even the comment you draw my attention too says Kelly would have shot anyone who interfered, and Begley was ..." ..Others were less complimentary in Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91641821749423376222022-05-30T23:24:38.757+01:002022-05-30T23:24:38.757+01:00Frankie.
" (the same people who you wanted &...Frankie.<br /><br />" (the same people who you wanted 'stiffed' during the 2000 feud in the Shankill Stevie). "<br /><br />Only C Company Frankie! LOLSteve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-515162667261909732022-05-30T23:23:27.618+01:002022-05-30T23:23:27.618+01:00"Out of interest, does anyone know when the U..."Out of interest, does anyone know when the UVF on the Shankill first identified C Company as a potential problem, and why they didn't take strong action when they did?"<br /><br />When Adair started associating with Wright and his gang of hoods in the LVF. There was supposed to be a Loyalist show of strength on the Shankill but under the proviso that no LVF symbols to be shown. Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-18702032690973809122022-05-30T23:08:56.320+01:002022-05-30T23:08:56.320+01:00Brandon/Anthony
In "a Short Fuse ",
&...Brandon/Anthony<br /><br />In "a Short Fuse ",<br /><br />"...When a public figure gave out privately to the Belfast Brigade about the unsuitable timing mechanism he was reminded - lest he conveniently had no recollection - of his attendance at the army council meeting that approved the operation."..AM<br /><br />Yet in the article Brandon offered..<br /><br />"As the Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-81662792573967800502022-05-30T22:58:22.466+01:002022-05-30T22:58:22.466+01:00Brandon,
That's my point, who are the sources...Brandon,<br /><br />That's my point, who are the sources? Without those it's Hitchen's Razor, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.<br /><br />"I think that on this blog, as in all spaces where atrocities are examined, we ask too much of other people. I am at a remove from the Shankill bomb - it didn't touch me as I believe it has touched Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-49250683843648992342022-05-30T22:49:10.757+01:002022-05-30T22:49:10.757+01:00Dublin and Monaghan were certainly UVF/security fo...Dublin and Monaghan were certainly UVF/security force collusion operations. Not so Omagh. Despite the monumental cock up in intel, responsibility for the 31 deaths in my native town that dark day lie with the Real IRA operatives who gave deliberately vague warnings as to the location of the bomb. Just like Bloody Friday, Enniskillen, Claudy, Coleraine etc.Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-61023199529673145372022-05-30T16:20:03.759+01:002022-05-30T16:20:03.759+01:00Brandon,
Omagh, The Shankill bombing, Dublin and ...Brandon,<br /><br />Omagh, The Shankill bombing, Dublin and Monaghan all directed by British state terrorists. Thats what police reports and official documents lead me to believe. Ask yourself why are the British again changing the goal posts on legacy? Think it's to protect sectarian killers in their ranks? I know they didn't the legacy goal posts to protect paramilitaries......frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15416937124561437332022-05-30T14:43:44.607+01:002022-05-30T14:43:44.607+01:00@ frankie
I think Omagh was a standard commercial...@ frankie<br /><br />I think Omagh was a standard commercial car-bombing that went catastrophically wrong. Because of the appalling carnage that ensued, it has been studied extensively. But it was only ever intended to be a car-bomb with a warning that caused significant commercial damage. <br /><br />Likewise, I think the most likely suggestion for the civilian death-toll with the Shankill Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-66361353865756984752022-05-30T11:48:01.745+01:002022-05-30T11:48:01.745+01:00Stevie
I can take he point that the IRA were un...Stevie <br /><br /><i>I can take he point that the IRA were under pressure to hit back so pushed ahead but that doesn't diminish the sectarian nature of it and only adds to it's horror.</i><br /><br />The only people the IRA were under pressure from in Oct 1993 was Mi5/British Gov to call it a day and wind up the conflict. I know that most people buy into the narrative that it was a frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-90729369281210406532022-05-30T11:46:53.486+01:002022-05-30T11:46:53.486+01:00Stevie,
What jumped out at me was this..
This wa...Stevie,<br />What jumped out at me was this..<br /><br /><i> This was significant because it had become relatively rare for the IRA to lose people to their own devices. In the previous 3 years the IRA had successfully exploded some 580 bombs in the North.....So uncommon had it become for IRA bombs to kill their own within Ulster though, that for a while after the Shankill explosion there was evenfrankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-88154122620236998942022-05-30T09:38:47.762+01:002022-05-30T09:38:47.762+01:00I thought that it was reasonably well referenced, ...I thought that it was reasonably well referenced, and that the background it went into on the failed IRA operations (opposite Adair's home for example) suggested that the author had good sources. It would also have been peer reviewed - though that it not fool-proof.<br /><br />I actually think the article highlighted how risk averse the IRA was: when the risk was to its own members or its Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-81642370767289659472022-05-30T02:45:16.740+01:002022-05-30T02:45:16.740+01:00Brandon,
I've read that article you sent me a...Brandon,<br /><br />I've read that article you sent me and there seems to be a fair size of it not backed up with sources? Is this the way you found it too? The author makes claims without references and in one case refers to himself...as a reference. Other parts I found interesting..<br /><br />"Regardless, it is clear that the IRA’s surveillance team genuinely believed he was<br />Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-58902957045862831802022-05-26T10:31:03.184+01:002022-05-26T10:31:03.184+01:00Danny
In fairness I was a wee bigot too. Product ...Danny<br /><br />In fairness I was a wee bigot too. Product of the times and whatnot. Nowadays I haven't even thought about Norn Iron religion for well over a decade (though I'm always highly suspicious of evangelical Prods!), and given the Philosophical tool that TPQ is for Anthony I suspect he is similar. We grow and there's no shame in self critiquing our youth.Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-13403700990697767302022-05-25T10:42:38.170+01:002022-05-25T10:42:38.170+01:00you are not the first of us here to experience tha...you are not the first of us here to experience that sort of emotional reaction - it was a horrendous incident that could have been avoided. While I do not believe it was intentional it is hard to assert that it had no sectarian element. Myself and Robert who used to comment here once discussed this type of thing. I think there were risks taken that would not have been taken on the Falls. AlthoughAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-5279518114720245782022-05-25T09:50:38.227+01:002022-05-25T09:50:38.227+01:00AM maybe emotion got the run of me there, my bad. ...AM maybe emotion got the run of me there, my bad. Hard when that day is so clear in my memory. Peace.Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51040372479734713162022-05-25T09:20:00.911+01:002022-05-25T09:20:00.911+01:00The point I was making with the Avenue Bar murders...The point I was making with the Avenue Bar murders is that it started off as a discrete attempt to kill republican paramilitaries, but the UVF members panicked and shot indiscriminately. I always assumed it was simply a loyalist 'spray job' - Balaclava Street is a blog that I trust. Now, I have views about the UVF members who carried out this operation, and consider it murder, but I Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-38947921084907294062022-05-25T01:07:39.099+01:002022-05-25T01:07:39.099+01:00Not sure of your point Brandon? I've briefly s...Not sure of your point Brandon? I've briefly skimmed over the link you sent Anthony (thanks by the way) and this bit leaped out at me.<br /><br />"Second, it quickly emerged that 1 of the 10 people killed was an IRA member, and<br />another man wounded in the bombing was under guard in hospital. This was significant<br />because it had become relatively rare for the IRA to lose people toSteve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-69932252584963180412022-05-24T14:19:10.851+01:002022-05-24T14:19:10.851+01:00@ Steve R
I don't think that you want your mi...@ Steve R<br /><br />I don't think that you want your mind changed about the motivations behind the Shankill bombing, but here's an example of a loyalist operation which changed from a discrete operation against paramilitary individuals to mass murder of civilians: (available here: https://balaclavastreet.wordpress.com/page/2/)<br /><br />"The attack on the Avenue Bar by the UVF in Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-64905898905199997342022-05-24T09:07:49.190+01:002022-05-24T09:07:49.190+01:00Interestingly, and often overlooked, the IRA bombe...Interestingly, and often overlooked, the IRA bombed two pubs in loyalist areas in the run-up to the ceasefire, in 1994: <br />https://apnews.com/article/7f3d52633b51aa9db75beba7a892d9dbBrandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-1759670772027619152022-05-24T08:40:33.994+01:002022-05-24T08:40:33.994+01:00too long ago to remember!!
Yes, I did. Very much ...too long ago to remember!!<br /><br />Yes, I did. Very much so. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59144371467770503822022-05-24T08:39:17.865+01:002022-05-24T08:39:17.865+01:00As you haven't progressed your argument any fu...As you haven't progressed your argument any further, perhaps best left at that.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15127481688670401602022-05-24T02:36:13.611+01:002022-05-24T02:36:13.611+01:00Hi Anthony,
Generally speaking, how did you view ...Hi Anthony,<br /><br />Generally speaking, how did you view Protestant unionist civilians as a young man? Did you hold sectarian views?Dannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17936315123645432638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-81791569608258733472022-05-23T23:40:24.615+01:002022-05-23T23:40:24.615+01:00There's no evidence that the shankill bomb was...There's no evidence that the shankill bomb was anything other than attack on the Protestant community. Whether you believe it or not, that's how it's viewed by my community. Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09717508246998710212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14488350199219374492022-05-23T21:24:03.906+01:002022-05-23T21:24:03.906+01:00Steve - when in a hole stop digging. There is nobo...Steve - when in a hole stop digging. There is nobody interested in getting one over on you here. There is just no evidence to back up your view no matter how passionately held. The IRA did much worse than the Shankill bomb and nobody here is making excuses for any of it. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-42627192745003998582022-05-23T20:36:19.474+01:002022-05-23T20:36:19.474+01:00Adair went in and out, picked up a prison pass to ...Adair went in and out, picked up a prison pass to visit Skell. Nobody was having a meeting there. Talking about shaped charges is asinine, we are talking about bringing an fucking bomb into a shop on a busy Saturday afternoon. Trying to insinuate that the provos had some sort of duty of care let down by a faulty timer is frankly insulting, as is the other oft told excuse that when an op went Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09717508246998710212noreply@blogger.com