People And Nature By Anatoly Dubovik in Dnipro, eastern Ukraine.

7-April-2022

On social media people are arguing about the reasons for the massacres at Bucha, Irpen and other places in Kyiv region. They are not asking why, so much as “for what reason”, with what aim? I have my opinion, as follows.

At the beginning of March, I heard a woman, who had been able to get out of occupied Melitopol with her family, talk about it. I’ll tell the story, as I remember it – so it’s not a documented record, of course, but my re-telling, albeit directly from the witness. As far as I understood, she lived somewhere in the suburbs of the city, in a private house.

The Russian army arrived in Melitopol on 26 February. There was no battle for the city. For several days we sat at home and watched an endless stream of Russian military vehicles. It was too frightening to go out – and there was no reason to: the Russians had looted all the shops on the first day.

And then (so, on 1 or 2 March, AD) our neighbours for some reason set out for their allotment, to plant something. One of the military vehicles stopped. Two Russian soldiers got out and killed the whole family, our neighbours. Husband, wife and two children. Then the soldiers got back into their vehicle and left.

After this we had no doubt. We collected all the things we could, and half an hour later left the city in our car. It took 24 hours to get to Zaporozhya (it is a 133 kilometre journey, AD). There were Russian checkpoints all along the way. We were constantly stopped, they examined the car, and searched us. But all the same, we made it.

What are the explanations? Why, for what reason, was that family killed?

This was right at the start. The Russians who killed that family had only been on Ukrainian territory for a day or two. Melitopol was already in the rear, from their standpoint. So it’s highly unlikely that these soldiers had been in a firefight or lost close colleagues. Furthermore, there was practically no battle for Melitopol: the Ukrainian army had left the city. So it was not revenge.

Refugees in Lviv

And it did not seem like they were carrying out orders, either. In the case of an order to “kill civilians”, even “under such-and-such circumstances”, things would not have been limited to killing one family, who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. This was not carrying out an order; it was the “living creativity of the Russian masses”.

The murdered parents, of course, could have had pro-Ukrainian views. Or they could even have been signed up to a territorial defence unit. But none of this was known to the Russians who shot them. It was not even known to their neighbours. What’s more: underaged children, murdered together with their parents, could not possibly have been in a territorial defence unit.

Moreover, this was not the result of a breach of curfew rules or anything of that kind. These people were literally in front of their home, in their own country, in broad daylight, no kind of threat to anyone at all.

But they were killed.

Isn’t it really obvious, that these murders had no purpose whatever? That the Russians killed that family not “for a reason”, but just … because.

Because these murderers are a crazed, completely lawless bunch of gopniks. (See note at the end.) Because they enjoy killing people. Because they had automatic weapons, and they knew that nothing would happen to them as a result of these killings. They got back in their vehicle, and off they went.

Those same “simple Russian people”, armed, were in Bucha, Irpen, Borodyanka and so on. With the same psychology, intoxicated with the same impunity and with their sadism.

That’s the first thing that I wanted to say. And here is the second thing.

I really, really hope that I am wrong about this. But I fear that when the Russians are driven from Mariupol, Volnovakha and other towns and villages of Donbass, where the fiercest battles of this war are already going into their second month – then, what the world saw in the region around Kyiv, those hundreds of corpses of tortured, raped and executed people … all that will take second place. In comparison to what awaits us in the east of the country.

Note. Gopniks are thugs – but the word “thugs” does not convey the specific meaning of gopniks in post-Soviet societies. Anatoly explained in a message: 
It’s a sub-culture of street gangs, mainly in the suburbs of cities and everywhere in smaller towns. You come across them fairly often in the streets, in public transport, and above all in the courtyard of your multistorey block of flats. Aggressive, uncultured, and cowardly. Ready to fight, five against one, beat you up and steal your money … or stick a knife in your kidney if you ask “why are you pissing in the stairwell?"

 

Anatoly Dubovik is an anarchist since 1989, and a historian of the anarchist movement. This is a facebook post, written on 5 April, translated and reproduced by People And Nature with permission.

 Follow People & Nature on twitter … instagram … telegram … or whatsapp. Or email peoplenature@yahoo.com, and I’ll send you updates.

Russian Soldiers Killed That Family, Just . . . Because

People And Nature By Anatoly Dubovik in Dnipro, eastern Ukraine.

7-April-2022

On social media people are arguing about the reasons for the massacres at Bucha, Irpen and other places in Kyiv region. They are not asking why, so much as “for what reason”, with what aim? I have my opinion, as follows.

At the beginning of March, I heard a woman, who had been able to get out of occupied Melitopol with her family, talk about it. I’ll tell the story, as I remember it – so it’s not a documented record, of course, but my re-telling, albeit directly from the witness. As far as I understood, she lived somewhere in the suburbs of the city, in a private house.

The Russian army arrived in Melitopol on 26 February. There was no battle for the city. For several days we sat at home and watched an endless stream of Russian military vehicles. It was too frightening to go out – and there was no reason to: the Russians had looted all the shops on the first day.

And then (so, on 1 or 2 March, AD) our neighbours for some reason set out for their allotment, to plant something. One of the military vehicles stopped. Two Russian soldiers got out and killed the whole family, our neighbours. Husband, wife and two children. Then the soldiers got back into their vehicle and left.

After this we had no doubt. We collected all the things we could, and half an hour later left the city in our car. It took 24 hours to get to Zaporozhya (it is a 133 kilometre journey, AD). There were Russian checkpoints all along the way. We were constantly stopped, they examined the car, and searched us. But all the same, we made it.

What are the explanations? Why, for what reason, was that family killed?

This was right at the start. The Russians who killed that family had only been on Ukrainian territory for a day or two. Melitopol was already in the rear, from their standpoint. So it’s highly unlikely that these soldiers had been in a firefight or lost close colleagues. Furthermore, there was practically no battle for Melitopol: the Ukrainian army had left the city. So it was not revenge.

Refugees in Lviv

And it did not seem like they were carrying out orders, either. In the case of an order to “kill civilians”, even “under such-and-such circumstances”, things would not have been limited to killing one family, who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. This was not carrying out an order; it was the “living creativity of the Russian masses”.

The murdered parents, of course, could have had pro-Ukrainian views. Or they could even have been signed up to a territorial defence unit. But none of this was known to the Russians who shot them. It was not even known to their neighbours. What’s more: underaged children, murdered together with their parents, could not possibly have been in a territorial defence unit.

Moreover, this was not the result of a breach of curfew rules or anything of that kind. These people were literally in front of their home, in their own country, in broad daylight, no kind of threat to anyone at all.

But they were killed.

Isn’t it really obvious, that these murders had no purpose whatever? That the Russians killed that family not “for a reason”, but just … because.

Because these murderers are a crazed, completely lawless bunch of gopniks. (See note at the end.) Because they enjoy killing people. Because they had automatic weapons, and they knew that nothing would happen to them as a result of these killings. They got back in their vehicle, and off they went.

Those same “simple Russian people”, armed, were in Bucha, Irpen, Borodyanka and so on. With the same psychology, intoxicated with the same impunity and with their sadism.

That’s the first thing that I wanted to say. And here is the second thing.

I really, really hope that I am wrong about this. But I fear that when the Russians are driven from Mariupol, Volnovakha and other towns and villages of Donbass, where the fiercest battles of this war are already going into their second month – then, what the world saw in the region around Kyiv, those hundreds of corpses of tortured, raped and executed people … all that will take second place. In comparison to what awaits us in the east of the country.

Note. Gopniks are thugs – but the word “thugs” does not convey the specific meaning of gopniks in post-Soviet societies. Anatoly explained in a message: 
It’s a sub-culture of street gangs, mainly in the suburbs of cities and everywhere in smaller towns. You come across them fairly often in the streets, in public transport, and above all in the courtyard of your multistorey block of flats. Aggressive, uncultured, and cowardly. Ready to fight, five against one, beat you up and steal your money … or stick a knife in your kidney if you ask “why are you pissing in the stairwell?"

 

Anatoly Dubovik is an anarchist since 1989, and a historian of the anarchist movement. This is a facebook post, written on 5 April, translated and reproduced by People And Nature with permission.

 Follow People & Nature on twitter … instagram … telegram … or whatsapp. Or email peoplenature@yahoo.com, and I’ll send you updates.

14 comments:

  1. I am having now serious doubts about certain Ukrainian claims of "Russian attrocities". If Kyiv is in such a perilous state, why then are various embassies moving back to the city? Some refugees appear now to be returning to the Ukrainian capital. I am not suggesting this is a normal situation, because it is not, but contradictions are now appearing in the arguments about Russian terror. According to Russian reports, no more reliable than the west, bit feasable, the Azov Regiment have been responsible for many bombings of civillians, including railway stations and cinemas. I am no longer convinced the Ukrainian establishment are as innocent as they are making out.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

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    Replies
    1. Caoimhin - just think about it for a minute. A right wing capitalist regime wages war on its neighbour and does not commit atrocity in the course of doing so. Where in the world has there been a precedent for that? The West has hugely more reliable sources than Russian state owned news organs. The progressive Left offers a wide range of opinion which is very hostile towards the Nazis in Ukraine (whose denials of being Nazi are as believable as the Russian denial of war crimes), and is resolutely critical NATO. I never listen to what a Western government says on the war but I do listen to Bellingcat and Open Democracy.

      Delete
  2. The documentary evidence of Russian massacres in the village of Buja, the indiscriminate shelling of schools, hospitals and train stations carrying refugees is pretty well irrefutable. Not to mention the thousands of civilian dead in Mariupol and the privations of the Azov steelworks. Frankly Caoimhin you are seriously going down in my estimation with your readiness to swallow and spread the lies that Putin and his underlings tell.

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  3. Caoimhin O'Muraile
    You have joined the list of sad NATO hating lefties who have been caught on the wrong side of history and have, somehow, to justify their sympathy for a facist/imperialist superpower trying to crush its weaker neighbour. Ukraine has a facist problem similar to France's, where 42% voted for Le Pen, but at least their facists are not in power, unlike Russia.

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  4. I have no problem with that, I do have a massive problem with fascist sympathisers. It appears you have joined that gang.

    Caoimhin 'OMuraile.

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    Replies
    1. Caoimhin - the problem with this is that Russia by any democratic index is closer to fascism than Ukraine. There are authoritarian strains in both countries but more pronounced in Russia. A serious danger now is that because the Nazi regiment seems to be more than holding its own against the Russian military, it is going to become an even more attractive option for people opposed to the invasion. On that front alone the war has been counter productive.

      Delete
  5. Caoimhin 'OMuraile
    I am a sympathiser of the defenders of Irpin, Bucha, Kharkiv etc I don't care who or what they are, only that they destroy the imperialist invader

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    1. I do worry about who is amongst the ranks of the defenders. I think the growth of Nazism anywhere is a serious danger. At the same time, if the Kremlin was full-on Nazi, I still think the regressive Left would concoct some excuse to support it. I believe it is bewitched by the absolutism that has been so central a feature of Russian history and political culture. The penchant for a Czar is so pronounced that whether the Czar comes brandishing the hammer and sickle or a swastika is secondary.

      Delete
  6. Peter - I think the regressive Left have behaved true to form. That they can be found supporting Russia, despite it being an authoritarian capitalist regime, is not all that surprising. Caoimhin claims to be neutral rather than supporting Russia but seems to have missed the wall a bit. Still, it is fine as I see it for the Left to oppose NATO on the grounds that it is not a defensive force. The history of broken understandings between the West and Russia leading to NATO expansionism has in part fed into today's war. One problem for the Left is that Russia's war has made NATO seem an attractive option for countries like Sweden and Finland. We can now see NATO enlarging rather than shrinking as a result of Russian policy.

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    Replies
    1. I have no problem with opposition to NATO, there is much truth in the criticism of it. It is far from perfect. What I find pitiful in the extreme are Irish Republicans supporting Russia or being apologists for Russia. Soviet flags in the Bogside? Pathetic! They accuse the British of invasion, subjugation, plantation, starvation, repression and yet support Russia doing exactly that to a sovereign country? Watching them flail around trying to justify their position or their "neutrality" is pathetic.

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    2. yeah - it calls into question the anti-repression narrative they espoused during the conflict. Russia is an authoritarian capitalist state which has invaded another country. It is not hard to work out what side to back.

      Delete
  7. Anthony,

    I never listen to what a Western government says on the war but I do listen to Bellingcat and Open Democracy.

    Bellingcat and the blaming Russia for the sarin attack in Syria ....... News Punch citing the UN Report into the sarin attack saying it had sweet fcuk all to do with Russia. Both pieces use almost the same photographs to make their case and both have their own military sources backing up their facts.

    The West has hugely more reliable sources than Russian state owned news organs.

    Western media, it's as controlled as much as the Russian and Chinese medias. The only difference between them is Western media is slicker and glossier. The Weaponization of Social Media (Episode 322 of the Corbett Report, worth a listen or a read, it's fully transcribed). MSM is full of stories about how the West is freezing Russian assets while paying little to no attention how Trudeau froze Canadian citizens assets because they gave money to a peace convoy or to the wrong political party. MSM was very quick to show Russian police beating peaceful protesters off the streets in Moscow while brushing over how Canadian police at the same time beat peaceful protesters off the streets in Ottawa....

    Trudeau is a classic example of Western hypocrisy (1min in). He refuses to call what China is doing to the Uyghur minority in Xinjiang province even a war crime while admitting to being a big fan of Chinese democracy. Yet calls what is happening in Ukraine genocide. Throw into the equation there is a young Russian soldier who is being accused of a war crime...While Israel can shoot dead a journalist at point blank range in the head and nothing will done to bring the Israeli war criminal to any court never mind the ICC..Then again America, Russia, China and Israel don't recognize the ICC but want everyone else brought up before it...

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    Replies
    1. Thanks for that Frankie. I seriously doubt the reliability of NewsPunch. It has a reputation for being a Waterford Whispers although WW does not pretend to be anything others than satire. The reliable fact checkers all dismiss it and have caught it out spoofing countless times.
      The West has much better sources of information than Russia - for no other reason than the ability of projects (usually on the Progressive Left) to carve out independence from the Western states and not be poisoned for it.
      The UN in 2013 said the sarin attack was a war crime but did not apportion culpability. It did conclude that the 2017 attack was the work of the government.
      Western hypocrisy? When was there ever anything else? Which is why we go to places like Bellingcat and Open Democracy - we can't believe our own governments.

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  8. Peter,

    Ukraine has a facist problem similar to France's, where 42% voted for Le Pen, but at least their facists are not in power, unlike Russia.

    My oldest daughter (brought up with the Jewish faith) wanted Le Pen to win the last Presidential election and I think she still wants Jean-Luc Mélenchon to win in June so he will be Prime Minister. Today people simply throw the word fascist around like they do racist...and it becomes almost meaningless. When Trudeau blocked bank accounts and beat protesters off the street wasn't that fascist? During the recent French election Le Pen was called a racist because she wanted to ban all religious head scarves etc in public but when Maryam Namazie calls for exactly the same she is hailed......

    Macron like Trudeau both a have been bought off by Schwabs WEF and neither are working for their citizens. They are part of the big club that Carlin said we'd never be part off. Macron has shown from an early age that he is easily influenced, corruptible and has no moral values and he carried that thought process into public life. Today in France the First Lady was once a married school teacher who abused her position of trust by having sex with at least one of her pupils. Macron is a machiavellian cunt with no moral compass....

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