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| Tom Holland |
It was 20 years ago today. On 1st April 2001, same-sex marriage became legal in the Netherlands. The Dutch, liberalism’s most celebrated trend-setters, had done it again. Where they led, others quickly followed. Scenes of gay couples cutting wedding cakes and spraying champagne over each other became common around the world.
Today, same-sex marriage is recognised as legal in 29 countries. What even 30 years ago would have seemed to most gay people an impossible dream has come to be widely accepted — and not only by gay people — as entirely normal. The most startling thing about the institution, it can often seem, is that people ever found it startling.
Except, of course, that there are large stretches of the world where the idea that men might legally marry men, or women legally marry women, continues to be seen as abhorrent, grotesque, immoral. The list of countries that license same-sex marriage is a highly distinctive one. All of them, with the sole exception of Taiwan, are culturally Christian. All of them, to a greater or lesser extent, have witnessed a decline over recent years in church-attendance.
Except, of course, that there are large stretches of the world where the idea that men might legally marry men, or women legally marry women, continues to be seen as abhorrent, grotesque, immoral. The list of countries that license same-sex marriage is a highly distinctive one. All of them, with the sole exception of Taiwan, are culturally Christian. All of them, to a greater or lesser extent, have witnessed a decline over recent years in church-attendance.
Continue reading @ UnHerd.
Yes, 'culturally Christian' means post-Christian, Christian without the belief, not a culture that has Christian beliefs.
ReplyDeleteThe UK is certainly post-Christian, despite having a national Church headed up by the Queen. The CoE and the main denominations have long ago abandoned Biblical standards.
They are all Marxists:'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.' :0)
Wolfie do you personally think being gay is a choice?
ReplyDeleteSteve, even if it is a choice, it is nobody else's business. It is a private matter.
DeleteThe Supreme creator of the universe obsessing over what people do with their Willies - it is a joke.
Do you think a secular society should provide Religion Conversion Therapy in the way that Religious trauma counselling is provided? Gays seem like the rest of us in what passes for normalcy but religious types can often seem like whack jobs. Any person who thinks it is right and fitting that a gay person be burned forever because they are gay is morally warped. It is Hate Theology.
Steve R, Yes, I think it is a choice. But not a clear intellectual choice, like whether to ask one's girlfriend to marry them or not.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have heard and read of sexual orientation/desires, one's choice is strongly influenced by environmental/developmental factors. How one is raised as a child, the character of one's parents, the associations one makes with each sex. Especially any sexual abuse.
All of these and more influence how one feels about sex and how sexual attraction to either sex arises. And of course any religious codes one values.
The choice then will be to follow the sum of those influences or not. If the sexual attraction is homosexual, the religious codes will likely conflict with that and the choice be difficult.
I've known sound Christians who had to fight against unwanted sexual attractions, attractions they recognised came from complex childhood influences. Check the story of Rosaria Butterfield, for example: https://rosariabutterfield.com/
Anthony, it is indeed no one else's business. It is between them and God. And if they want to abandon that orientation, no one should have the right to stop them or stop others helping them.
ReplyDeleteIt can be between them and Spiderman if Spiderman is what floats their boat.
DeleteSame as people who want to abandon their colour or their gender - their call. Society can therefore have Race Conversion Therapy or Gender Conversion Therapy. For those who claim to want to help them they really do need to show that they are helping and are not harmful charlatans.
Wolfsbane
ReplyDeleteGay conversion therapies are similar to the autism cures promulgated by wingnuts, charlatans and liars like Andrew Wakefield. There should be no place in society for any of that ordure.
Barry, that's why I and indeed the opponents of the gay conversion therapy motion do agree that such therapy needs banning.
DeleteWhat they looked assurances over, and did not get, was that the ban would not cover pastoral prayer and counsel with those gays coming to the church for help in getting free from their unwanted sexual desires.
They should be free to get spiritual help, and the church should be free to give it.