Statement from Des Dalton
Following on from my interview given to the University of Liverpool’s Institute of Irish Studies Civic Space, excerpts of which were carried by Henry McDonald in The Observer, the Ard Chomhairle of Republican Sinn Féin voted to suspend me from membership of the organisation.
To accept such a suspension would be to renounce the ideas I put forward in my interview and that is something I cannot do. To do so would be untrue to myself and to ideas that I passionately believe are necessary to advancing traditional Irish Republicanism in the Ireland of 2021 and beyond. Therefore, I have now tendered by resignation from Republican Sinn Féin.
Resigning from an organisation to which I have rendered over 30 years of service, and within which I have built strong personal relationships, is not something I do lightly. However, I believe it is now time for me to find my own voice and advance my ideas and analysis in the wider discussion about the future of traditional Irish Republicanism.
There are major opportunities opening up. The constitutional question is centre stage in a way it has not been for over 40 years. In Scotland, the move towards independence has accelerated to a point where the future of the whole so-called ‘United Kingdom’ is seriously in question for the first time in over 300 years. In such a scenario, to what union will unionists be loyal? Traditional Irish Republicanism has roots deep in Irish history and has a reach that is often underestimated. Without the distraction of sporadic armed actions, I believe its message can resonate even wider.
Irish Republicanism needs to free itself of the shrill voices who shout “sell out” or “slippery slope” when any initiative or fresh thinking is advanced for discussion. This is irrational and simply stifles the kind of honest and open debate that is necessary if the ideals of Irish Republicanism are to be advanced. Such debate must take place in an environment which is honest and rational, underpinned by a firm grasp of what the fundamental principles of Republicanism are. These are set out in the 1916 Proclamation.
I am confident and secure in my Irish Republicanism as I have been my entire adult life. My allegiance remains with the All-Ireland Republic proclaimed in 1916. I believe that by refusing to engage with objective realities Irish Republicanism risks isolating itself further. I believe those who advocate for perpetual armed action without clear short term and long-term objectives do a disservice to Irish Republicanism as by their actions they serve only to copper fasten the institutions of partition.
I believe Irish Republicanism has so much to offer the Irish people in terms of political, social, and economic justice. I hope that the analysis that I shared in my interview can begin and contribute to an open, informed, and constructive debate about the way forward in the struggle for the All-Ireland Republic.
An Phoblacht Abú
⏭Des Dalton is a long time republican activist.
Des - back in the land of the living, then.
ReplyDeleteI didn't understand the fuss.
It used to be said of journalism that it amounted to proclaiming Mr Jones had died to people who never knew Mr Jones had ever lived.
You make observations about an armed struggle that is not happening.
I would view it like being told I am suspended from the Tunisian bee keepers society. It would not cause me too much concern.
Yes indeed Anthony it does appear that Des has woken up to the reality that "armed struggle " is really a figment of someone,s imagination , and with a budget of over £85 mill I wouldnt be surprised if it was mi5 themselves ,after all it looks like a poor rerun of the PIRA campaign without any bang ,we have an ever growing prison population of republicans ,who have been incarcerated on or with the use of informants , so the conveyor belt rolls on as it always does feeding loyalist bigots ie;screws and cronies in well paid jobs , knowing this time can can inflict whatever abuse they like without fear of reprisal, this has been the real definition of madness, the energy and talent of so many being wasted, republicanism needs a new direction away from the failed tactics of the past ,if Des,s resignation opens up that debate then it would surely be a good thing,
ReplyDeleteMarty - I think it will be treated as heresy and there will be a desire to burn the heretic Dalton.
DeleteEven if an end to armed activity was observed in the morning what would be the difference? Who would notice?
I found in my discussions with Des that he is quite a free thinker.
ReplyDeleteI think the focus should be not on the people who ousted Des but on what Des is calling for. If I understand correctly, Des is calling for (all) traditional republicans to consider strategically enter into discussions about what the inevitable new Ireland will look like. His point is that it is incumbent on those who claim to have a “firm grasp” of the 1916 Proclamation to take its fundamental principles to the shaping the future that is coming anyway. Otherwise they are leaving it to people less attached to the aims of 1916 to have the sole say in establishing the new Ireland.
ReplyDeleteDes - I don’t know about your erstwhile colleagues but I do hope you can continue to be involved in those discussions at national level.
There's a real irony in what has happened here. RSF talk about the Provos as the thought police. Isn't this what's happening here against Dalton?!
ReplyDeleteA dark day for RSF. RSF has shot itself in the head here.
ReplyDeleteIt has to be pointed out that the same person who wanted rid of Dalton also got rid of Geraldine Taylor in Belfast, effectively finishing the organisation there. Someone just needs to yell sell out and the rest follow out of fear of what will be thrown at them. Marching around cemeteries and shouting about a war doesn't mean you're fighting one! There is no campaign. What have any of these groups done in the past decade? People are sitting in jails for a campaign that isn't happening. But the people who shout loudest about the campaign rarely end up in jail. In fact, this person who wanted Dalton out was in the Free state Army when the war was actually going on in the North.
Looks like Dalton was suspended for giving an analysis in a personal capacity-clearly stated in his interview. An analysis that was spot on. He said he believes in the right to armed actions. When to use them has always been tactical. Some of those calling for Des's dismissal are the very ones who also yell and shout that not accepting bail conditions is a principle of the Movement. Yet these very people are currently in breach of this- a supposed point of principle. In the 70s republicans were going to jail simply on the word of Gardaí because it was policy of the Movement to not recognise the court. When it was realised how self defeating this was it was tactically changed. Questions need to be asked. Are RSF heading for their own arbacia? Very disheartening state of affairs.
- Laura
I haven't been a member of RSF in over 6 years and there are a fair few of their members that I would happily strangle (they know who they are)but to make out like Des has been hard done by here is a bit much. There is probably no one in the country who has a greater understanding of the rules and constitution of RSF as well as experience of how the Movement operates. Des made public statements that he knew would result in some form of sanction but he made them anyway. Then he refused to accept the sanction and resigned, again publicly. To me that would indicate that he was looking for an excuse to get out and at the same time generate some publicity for himself. The fact that he made these statements to Liverpool University, which had previously been involved in a scandal whereby a study of Irish republicans was funded by British Intelligence services, could only have been an aggravating factor for RSF.
DeleteDes Dalton was president of RSF while three vice presidents resigned from the organisation in the space of 18 months. All three of them had previously been staunch supporters of Des during a turbulent few years. I doubt any of them would have thought they'd see Des Dalton undermine confidence in the leadership of the Movement in such a fashion.
Laura - Geraldine Taylor: that is a name I had not heard in a long time. I liked Geraldine. She was very supportive in difficult times.
ReplyDeleteIt is never good for people to spend the best years of their lives in jail just so that some Caesar can feel great about himself.
For the outsider not familiar with republicanism this probably looks like something from the Hare Krishna. The HK exists but even if people know it exists few know next to nothing about it. It has no bearing on their lives and an infinitesimally small number of people think it ever will have any relevance to their lives.
Des seemed much too erudite to belong to a political cult. He always reminded me of Ruairi who again was very learned. I think it is very important for people to be able to hear what he has to say and it is heartening that he will resist every attempt to muzzle him.
AM- Geraldine was a staunch republican and a great media performer for them. Geraldine stood by them in 86 when she was ostracised in Belfast. RSF never recovered there after she was ousted. Dalton didn't actually say anything that departed from the traditional republican position on armed actions. As you say, hes erudite. He was the best asset they had. RSF had a chance here to become relevant again. At best RSF will simply fade further into oblivion now. At worst they will have their own arbacia.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Laura - I am not sure how SF could ever have become relevant again. Des was on a sinking ship that was only going to pull him down. They threw him overboard because he did not sing to the company owners' tune. After that all he could do was swim away.
DeleteTheres good people still there but they're too concerned with whats said about them on Facebook. Dalton has a voice in the real world. Their activity needs to move beyond social media.
ReplyDelete-Laura
there are good people there but good people who are still going nowhere. Had Des have stayed and implemented his perspective what could have been achieved?
DeleteDes would be a serious addition to any body of thought so why belong to one that by its treatment of him seems not to be too much into the process of thought.
RSF that suffered so much from Section 31 now applying Section 31 to one of its foremost figures, needs quite some explaining.
I wonder how many of the ard chomhairle actually listened to Dalton's interview. Or did they simply go by what they read in the Guardian and on social media. I'd say its likely that they threw him overboard without even listening to it.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Laura - when we don't seek the approval of Thought Traffic Control we are taken out of service. Saw it so often with the Shinners. I think there has always been a censorious aspect to republicanism. I doubt it ever changes from group to group.
DeleteYes AM I think thats probably a true fact of groups. Does seem particularly self destructive in this instance though.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that the same former Free State soldier (who would've been of age to be involved in the war in the North but was too busy in the Free State army) has rushed out to attack Dalton on Breizh, a media outlet. The questions over this individual haven't gone unnoticed. Typical provocateur behaviour. How come he only became a republican in the last lot of years after he left the army? So he goes from Free State soldier to hardest republican in Ireland over night? And when RSF took him in they knew his only activity had been criminal when he stole a car for a gang. I feel sorry for those around him. But then again if people who've known Dalton for a long time are prepared to be led by this former soldier then I guess its their own funeral.
-Laura
Fergal, when people were calling for your blood over the fine debacle it was Dalton who strongly defended you. I guess eaten bread is soon forgotten.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Funny, when people were calling for my blood it was Des who proposed the charges against me. That can be verified by asking any of the other Ard Comhairle members who were present at the meeting following the Ard Fheis of 2014.
DeleteFergal- bizarre that you seem to blame Dalton on 3 Vice President's leaving. Cait was dismissed and you resigned over the same issue- a motion from Lurgan on parades. Geraldine went over an issue to do with the Belfast office. Bizarre comment regarding the VPs. Let's stick to the facts.
ReplyDelete-Laura
I know nothing about the background to the resignations of the three Veeps, but the Liverpool project was not funded by the security services. Myself and Mark Hayes were very critical of it. There were certainly genuine concerns around the destination but that was a separate matter from how it was actually funded.
Delete3 VPs, who had previously been staunch supporters resigned without any attempt from Des to prevent it. In two of those cases, myself and Cáit Trainor, Des was one of the most vociferous against us.
DeleteFergal, Dalton did not go against the Sinn Féin constitution whatsoever. Its pure nonsense to say so. In fact if it was the case then Ruairi O Bradaigh would've broken the constitution in 62 when he called a ceasefire for tactical reasons. You're talking rubbish on this point and I'm sure the RSF members wouldn't thank you for saying that to be a member of RSF you have to support armed actions all the time.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Laura,
DeleteRuairí was Chief of Staff of the IRA when he announced the 62 ceasefire. It was his responsibility to be the one to do so. He did not advocate publicly for a ceasefire behind the backs of the leadership and members who were still in the field as it were. To be a member of any organisation you cannot go around being critical of the leadership without repercussions. It's as simple as that. A public statement criticising continued armed action was bound to be seen as an attack on the leadership of the Republican Movement. Only someone very naive in the ways of the Movement would think differently. Des is not that naive in fact he is very astute and knowledgeable about such things as everyone here will attest.
The major issue with this statement by Fergal is that it can be used by the Provos to justify the silencing of their own members who made public statements pointing out the direction in which the leadership was moving. RSF was always very supportive of those statements and gave solidarity to the people making them. Never once did Ruairi or anybody advise me not to wash dirty linen in public, and I spoke to him quite a bit.
DeleteDes gave real creative leadership by speaking publicly. His duty of care is not to a leadership but to the people he genuinely feels are being led to the abyss by the leadership. I guess, this is a democratic style of leadership contrasting with a bureaucratic style.
Laura Geraldine Taylor is a republican of the old school , def a decent woman and straight as they come , those who shafted Geraldine may have as Warhol said got their fifteen minutes of fame , but their Dolandsonesque tactics left empty shoes in Belfast which have never been refilled , but maybe that was the motive ,RSF are imo a busted flush ,,
ReplyDeleteFergal, your bitterness against RSF has raged on for 6 years as seen in the Federalist group. Anti RSF stuff in that group is obsessive to the point of weird. But the ones behind your departure dont seem to figure in your bitterness. Dalton and others pleaded with Geraldine to stay so I'm not sure thats actually true when you say he did nothing. Geraldine was a big loss. Cait was one of the ones behind getting rid of Geraldine. The other was in Dublin.
ReplyDeleteMarty, empty shoes are being left all over the place and the obvious question is why. Why is RSF getting rid of their strongest performers. Its simply a case now of seeing what those left behind in RSF will achieve.
-Laura
Laura,
DeleteYou are complaining now about RSF getting rid of their strongest performers while disparaging me for complaining about it for 6 years. Come back in 6 years and maybe we'll see eye to eye.
To say Cait Trainor was one of those behind getting rid of Geraldine Taylor is to suggest some sort of conspiracy in which Cait was involved. I do not believe this and I was party to much of what went on at that time. Those who most wanted rid of Geraldine also wanted rid of Cait and they are still with RSF.
As for Des pleading with Geraldine to stay, I cannot remember that. He certainly did not plead with me to stay, in fact my resignation was accepted and my replacement chosen the same day I resigned. The website was updated within days but RSF did not contact me for 6 weeks to inform me of their decision.
,,Laura sticks ,quisling $inn £anny ,social ladder ,all been done before so many times ,I mentioned Donaldson before ,can you see the similarities,
ReplyDeleteYes the similarities are obvious Marty. All very worrying.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Fergal,
ReplyDeleteAgain you're going by media reports and social media. Listen to Daltons interview. Nowhere in that does he call for anything! He doesnt call for a ceasefire. You're absolutely correct that it wouldn't be within his authority and that is why he didn't call on anyone to do anything. He gave a personal analysis about a war that isn't happening anyway, meanwhile people are going to jail. What right thinking republican wants to see this continue in this vein?
-Laura
All in all while watching this debate i find it very sad to see one time colleagues turn on each other , It seems to be a cancer that eventually engulfs all forms off Republicanism . When you think of the great men and women who in 1986 walked out of Mansion House and formed RSF ,its just demoralising to see this happen in 2021. I saw Des speak with great dignity at the Funeral of Ruairi o Braidagh amidst constant harassment by the special branch and and the heavy presence of Gardai at St Colemans cemetery. I hope this matter can be resolved somehow, but i doubt it.
ReplyDeleteI was at that funeral myself.
DeleteYes VFP very true and very sad. But when you've a former policeman in England in RSF going around shouting his mouth off about Dalton and bragging that he got rid of him, then as an organisation you've big problems. If people like that are calling the shots over people like Dalton, and others are going along with it, then what has it come to.
ReplyDelete-Laura
'Former police man'? Added to the ex free state soldier? There seems to be a pattern evolving. Are these groups mindful that the Brits have been using their 'ex security force' members as ways of infiltrating groups and thus controlling them for years now? For eg rest assured the 'opposition' in places like Libya and Syria has spook fingerprints all over them. Just saying.
DeleteMicko yes. Its when these people are being internally divisive and whipping up people against effective and long standing members then questions need to be asked. All they've to do is shout sell out over nothing and others follow.
ReplyDelete-Laura
Laura could you let me know how i could access the interview that Des had given . Certainly seems like some underlying agenda here. Des Daltons credentials has always been impeccable so its a sad day to see him resign from RSF ,he had big shoes to fill after Ruairi stood down due to ill health.. His passion and commitment could never and should not be questioned. Glass Houses .!!. Anthony again the TPQ is a fantastic forum and you deservedly should be commended for it. It gives me a great insight into whatever comes up at any given time. Happy St Patricks Day from Australia
ReplyDeleteVFP - I hope you continue to get something out of it
DeleteThanks for that
VFP the interview was given to Liverpool University's Civic Space project where they collected a number of voices. You can access it on their website.
ReplyDeleteDes Dalton is a serious political thinker. Erudite and Trinity educated he can hold his own in any forum. The RSF ard chomhairle has fallen a long way from the days of people like Daithi O Conaill and Sean O Bradaigh. They're supposed to be a national leadership. They seem to put up the odd Facebook post about police harassment. Where is their analysis of political developments? Do they have one?
Fergal talked about 2015 when RSF lost 2 VPs including himself. That was over a motion on parades from Lurgan. Lurgan argued that bands could TACTICALLY be used to give notification to the parades commission, which would then allow their commemorations to continue without everyone present being arrested. Some argued this was breaching a serious principle. Lurgan emphasised it was simply tactical. Their motion succeeded but interestingly after the ard Fheis they effectively adopted the opposite position anyway and never used bands. But this motion was highly controversial. Yet Lurgan came out unquestionned. Not to mention the current acceptance of bail conditions which they also claimed was against republican principle. Then we have Dalton simply giving a personal analysis in response to a question. He stated the blatantly obvious in an interveiw and he's immediately suspended. He even said he believes in the right to an armed campaign. RSF claim to be about justice and equality. Their treatment of Dalton, and their suppression of thought, shows otherwise.
Republicans are facing long jail sentences for a campaign that isn't happening, so that some people can feel like big hard republicans. I doubt history will be kind to these people.
-Laura
Des is the Hans Kung of RSF. Kung spoke out against the principle of papal infallibility decades ago and has felt the chill of disapproval ever since.
DeleteIn my view Des could have gone much further but he can only go as far as his own opinion allows him to and no further merely for the purpose of aligning his opinion with mine or anybody else's.
The opinion of Des should really have caused no reaction. What he said amounted to that people should discontinue building the Titanic when no Titanic is being built. It is pretty much academic.
Des has made an intellectually sustainable observation. It might have upset some of his former colleagues but that is no reason for depriving public discourse of an additional thread to the broader quilt of understanding.
If Des was sincere about his wish to have the issue discussed within RSF then why has he never attempted at any point to actually discuss it within RSF? Like Fergal Moore I too am a former member who attended ard chomairle meetings and at no time during my membership did Des bring the subject up either at an ard chomairle meeting or at an Ard Fheis. I find it strange to say the least that the person who held the most senior position within the organisation for a period of time could not actually manage to get around to putting his thoughts on the matter forward in a motion to an Ard Fheis but managed perfectly well to put it forward to Liverpool University and the media. It seems as if he wished to discuss it with everyone but RSF. I find it ridiculous that certain people including some using fake names (its not as if people cant figure out who you are "Laura") are criticising RSF for "suppression of thought". I cant believe I actually have to explain to these erudite academics how an organisation like RSF works but it appears Im left with little option but to do so. Positions held by RSF are positions that are agreed by the membership who vote on them at Ard Fheis where they are submitted for approval by the membership. Des like everyone else is fully entitled to personal opinions on matters and any attempt to stop him or anyone else from holding those opinions would be akin to attempting to hold back the tide. However Des as a senior member of the organisation and former president expressing his personal opinion in such a public manner has an impact on the organisation and its membership that he sought zero agreement from them for. Des is fully aware of the avenues available to members of the organisation (i.e. through motions to the Ard Fheis or proposals to the ard chomairle) but chose to ignore these knowing full well that there would be repercussions which he then objected to despite never had an issue with repercussions for other members in the past.
ReplyDeleteI confess to not being remotely interested in how any of these groups work because it all sounds a bit like canon law. I find this the weakest critique to date of the stance adopted by Des. If trying to stop him expressing the opinion he is fully entitled to is like trying to hold back the tide, why even bother objecting to the expression of that opinion rather than discuss the opinion itself?
DeleteDes was speaking in a personal capacity and should no more be sanctioned for expressing that view than Peadar Toibin was by SF when he expressed his view against abortion.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteLaura saysBrian what a load of nonsense. I know well that you're a former member. You haven't been a member of RSF for years and yet the obsession continues and you think you know the ins and outs of this. Its nice to see you putting your views forward beyond the federalist group though. I continue to cringe watching the activity in that group. You're another one obsessively against Dalton and others in RSF and have been for the past 6 years. Maybe Cait was right when she complained in RSF that you were obsessed with her and making her feel uncomfortable ...
DeleteAs you're bound to know RSF has self destructed for a long time and the obsession of former members is seriously unhealthy and embarrassing. But of even bigger concern is the organisation thats left there and some of the people involved.
-Laura
Well "Laura" it appears that you are completely and absolutely incapable of discussing or disputing any point raised. You have reverted as you have throughout the entire discussion by attempting to personally attack the person posting and you throw in some serious allegations for good measure. Its clear you are attempting to steer any discussion away from Des's resignation by these tactics. The problem for you is that pretty much all of your allegations (some of which I have never even heard of before) fall during the time period when Des was president. A fact you seem not to grasp the implications of. If you want to continue throwing mud then by all means continue doing so but I feel the least I can do is point out that its actually yourself and those you are arguing on behalf of that are coming out the worst of it, but you are a grown woman and you can make your own decisions.
ReplyDeleteNow that we have addressed your deflections perhaps you would like to answer as to when Des actually raised the issue of his "rejection of violence" within RSF? Like I said in my original post which you appear to have had difficulty answering, at no point during my membership of RSF (as opposed to your non membership) did Des raise the matter in any level in the organisation and as we can see from the recent interview by an RSF member, he never raised it after my time right up until he gave the interview with Liverpool university.
If you want to discuss the current RSF leaderships handling of the situation (and its clear you do from your continued posts on the matter), then whether Des brought the matter up within RSF or not is of critical importance. I have based my previous post on the understanding that at no point did he bring it up within the organisation and as such the sanctions imposed upon him were entirely legitimate and you have failed entirely in disproving that.
looking forward to your reply. I just hope I dont have to wait until the book comes out to read it.
-Brian :-)
Brian, as AM says this is the weakest argument yet. You can continue to obsess and post comments under the direction of someone else. But the facts of this still stand. Maybe come back when you've got some facts that are worth discussing.
ReplyDeleteAM, Brian won't discuss the opinion itself as thats not the trade of these bots.
-Laura
Brian does ask a legitimate question - why Des did not raise the matter at party leadership level. I don't know if he did or did not. But that is entirely separate from Des having a right to express his opinion in public. The first duty of a democratic leader is to the people on the ground and wider society. The first duty of a bureaucratic leader is to those in the bureaucracy with him. People have to make their own call on these matters as to whom they should be primarily accountable. I think Des did the right thing but I still fail to see what the controversy is about. Des was referring to something that is not happening. Not that I believe in the sacred but what ostensibly sacred principle has been breached?
DeleteAM, the issue with people like Brian and others in his circle is they spend their time trolling and character assassinating and so its hard to take them seriously or take their motives as genuine. And Dalton has been a prime target for them for years. People like that generally dont deal so well with being on the recieving end of criticism. They dont engage with actual issues. Where is their republican activity? Of course the same question asked by Brian, when posed by someone like yourself, merits an answer.
ReplyDeleteOf course Dalton was right in what he said. No principle was breached. Its a nonsense to suggest theres a campaign, as much as some people want there to be. Brian hasn't been in RSF for years and yet seems pretty sure that it wasn't raised. And what's to raise? You're correct that it isn't controversial. He was thrown overboard, not because he had done something wrong but because some people turned it into a massive issue. Dalton and I havent always agreed in the past, but this all illustrates how far RSF has fallen. Over the years people have done various things far more serious that what Dalton said and nothing happened. He simply answered a question in an interview and there's murder over it.
-Laura
"Laura" You seem to think that because I have not been in RSF for years that I dont know the ins and outs, which is a very interesting view to take when you consider you have never been a member of RSF at any point in time but yet feel you are entitled to throw allegations and innuendo about members and former members as if you have some inside information. Despite your paranoia, I am not posting on behalf of anyone else. I am posting on my own behalf under my own name. You should try it sometime. Nor am I posting in the federalist group (feel free to check for yourself). Since you seem interested in my republican activity would you like to tell us all of your republican activity? Interesting that you state that when a question asked by me is posed by someone like AM it merits an answer and then you go on to once again not answer it. The question is (in case you have forgotten again) when did Des actually raise the issue of his "rejection of violence" within RSF? Take your time and read the question a few times so you get your head around it before answering. And for the record Des was not thrown overboard. Des jumped.
DeleteLaura - I admit to having very little interest in any of it. What goes on in RSF is of no more concern to me than what goes on in Westboro Baptist Church. I merely think Des is in the right to express a view without having to worry about what the party has to say. Whether I agree with the view or not is secondary.
ReplyDeleteI think you have said all you need to say. If you believe it is a cult (as I do) then they succeed on one level to the extent that they make you as obsessive as themselves. Make your point for the record and move on.
This might sound dismissive but republican theology means absolutely nothing to me. If they wish to believe that the army council of CIRA is the real government of Ireland let them (I don't even know if they do believe that). But you must see how wholly irrelevant it is to the lives of everybody outside of it.