UnHerdInsurrections are common. 

Edward Luttwak

But yesterday’s aborted insurrection on Capitol Hill was unique, because the purpose of mobilising a mass of people and deploying their sheer momentum against the edifices of power — a Royal or Presidential Palace, or a Parliament — is of course to take power through the very act of seizing that iconic building.

But that is logically quite impossible when the ruler is not the enemy to be replaced but rather the intended beneficiary of the insurrection.

What happened was certainly not an attempted coup d’état either. By their very nature coups are subterranean, very silent conspiracies that only emerge when the executors move into the seats of power to start issuing orders as the new government —a very large, very noisy and colourful gathering cannot possibly attempt a coup.

There have been quite a few cases around the world of what is best described as mass intimidation directed against Parliaments — but in all such cases it was some specific law that was wanted or not wanted, which legislators under the gun might then vote for, or against.  

Continue reading @ UnHerd.

No, What Happened In The Capitol Was Not A Coup

UnHerdInsurrections are common. 

Edward Luttwak

But yesterday’s aborted insurrection on Capitol Hill was unique, because the purpose of mobilising a mass of people and deploying their sheer momentum against the edifices of power — a Royal or Presidential Palace, or a Parliament — is of course to take power through the very act of seizing that iconic building.

But that is logically quite impossible when the ruler is not the enemy to be replaced but rather the intended beneficiary of the insurrection.

What happened was certainly not an attempted coup d’état either. By their very nature coups are subterranean, very silent conspiracies that only emerge when the executors move into the seats of power to start issuing orders as the new government —a very large, very noisy and colourful gathering cannot possibly attempt a coup.

There have been quite a few cases around the world of what is best described as mass intimidation directed against Parliaments — but in all such cases it was some specific law that was wanted or not wanted, which legislators under the gun might then vote for, or against.  

Continue reading @ UnHerd.

28 comments:

  1. Secrecy can improve the chances of a successful coup but secrecy does not define a coup -the intention and actions involved are what matter. The purpose of a coup is not secrecy but to overthrow an existing regime or prevent an incoming regime from taking power. What occured, and is still potentially ongoing, was neither peaceful protest nor velvet revolution -participants of the coup appear to have had the tools commonly used in coups, guns, explosives, hand-ties, assistance from political opponents of the regime to be displaced. Trump has made it clear that he wants to retain power and has been singlemindedly focused on that. Only a fool would think that Trump would not pursue power outside of the proper electorial process.

    The current state of US politics is on tinerhooks at present -if other armed civilian(s) decide to confront Trump's militia then where do things go in a highly polarised atmosphere?

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  2. Is this what passes for a coup in the west now is it? Drunken people in fancy dress taking selfies. If other militias attack Trump militia then the most heavily funded law enforcement in the world will deal with it, just as they will deal with the capitol hill mob.
    You could use that logic in any area. What if Obama supporters confronted the tea party. What if the black Panthers attacked the kkk , so on so forth.
    If a country with 400million private guns were bent on revolution, you would know about it.

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    1. David

      Five people died in the assault upon Congress.

      Note the contrast between how "the most heavily funded law enforcement in the world" dealt with BLM protests in Washington and its apparent helplessness in the face of the Trump mob.

      The fact is that the far right scene both online and in the physical world is awash with nutjobs and bigots with all sorts of incomprehensible conspiracy theories and hatreds tooled up with plentiful militias. The federal authorities need to disarm ALL armed militias.

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  3. David

    My point is in a volatile situation logic might not explain why one stray bullet triggers something greater as history has shown. For example, the assination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary is credited with starting the first world war, and only 2 men are credited with starting the Irish War of Independance. As ramshackle as the breach on Capital Hill might seem, some individuals had very serious intent and where not swept up in the moment like many others may have been.

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  4. Barry,
    Five people might have died, unless I'm mistaken only one was through violence, shot by a government agent. BLM protesters set up a free zone in Seattle I don't think they can complain too much about the policing in Washington. Maybe it was a tactic, similar to what the PSNI do at riots, where they contain you, film you ,arrest you at a later date. More likely it's a fuck up, point is they will be heavy sentences handed down over this.
    You can't disarm militias, it is an often quoted, sacrosanct part of their constitution. From an organisational perspective, what have they done, all these tooled up nut jobs? You trying to tell me the FBI can't deal with that mob.
    Christy,
    It wasn't that volatile though, that's my point. Social media generation think every moment is pivotal, it's not. There will be a couple more protests then it'll fizzle out. Just as the BLM protests will fizzle out until the US media find them useful again. There is no comparison between 21st century Us citizens and 20th century Europeans, socially, economically and importantly battle hardened. The US empire is in it's infancy, it's going nowhere, when you analyse US politics, they protest like this every few year, their authorities cab deal with it.

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  5. David

    I think you are very naive and trying to compare protests/riots against police brutality and the actual overthrow of the US Constitution and its democratic process and institutions. There was an armed attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power and further threats on the lives of individuals and intention to prevent the inauguration of Biden.

    Because they were not as effective as it would require does not mean many of these people are not serious.


    And yes there will be very severe (even life sentences) repercussions from this. I can also imagine there might be general amnesty for those on the periphery in order to dissipate on going tensions.

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  6. David

    The attempted coup has also reveal serious security problems;in particular that some cops or persons in authority had colluded with the insurectionists. That is very serious issue where some in law enforcement are loyal to Trump and not the Constitutiom. Apparently the insurectionists had maps of underground passageways on Capitol Hill. Democrats do not trust Republicans in Congress who bring guns to House sessions and metal detectors have been installed.

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  7. Christy,
    Think as you will. I think the definition of naivety is believing a few hundred halfwits in Viking hats are a threat to the biggest law enforcement and army the world has ever seen. We'll have this conversation in a years time and we'll see what these 'revolutionaries' achieved. Calling this an actual overthrow of the US constitution is laughable.
    You've got to compare the policing. In CHAZ the police wouldn't go in even though there was reports of home invasions, assaults, rapes and murders. You can't ignore one then get indignant because cops took selfies with Trumpers. It shows a lack of objectivity.
    They'll be no amnesty from this, Trump has already threw them under the bus, which is weird considering he's planning a fascist revolution.

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  8. David

    The exact numbers are 8involved are unknown, and I only saw 1 clown in costume which you seem to exaggerate to divert from the numbers in combat fatigue.

    The interrupted, but did not prevent the functioning of the constitution. You seem to have a fixed idea of what a coup is. The full scope of this attempted coup is unknown and it has not run its course yet.

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  9. Christy,
    I've no Interest in diverting anything. What did the people playing dress up as soldiers do? Governments get interrupted relatively frequently, it damages their constitution not a jot.
    You can go on media archives and see this sort of language, 'insurrection' 'destroying the constitution' 'anti American' used against anti Vietnam war demonstrators. It's regurgitated nonsense.
    I have a fixed idea of most words, that's how you define them. It has run it's course. You need revolutionaries to have a revolution and if a country with that amount of gear had revolutionaires, you would hear about it.
    All this is, is a wider propagation of conspiracy theories, what ten year ago was the domain of alarmist actors like Alex Jones, since Trump has become main stream

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  10. Anthony,
    I was replying to you and my nephew jumped on me, so I don't know if it went through. You might get two responses saying the same thing.
    Trump is a prick who would happily be a dictator, the US people won't have it, even his cheerleaders like Tucker Carlson have had enough of him.
    I disagree, the constitutional Republic will be as strong as ever when we're remembering Trump in a mocking way as we do with Bush.
    Hysteria may be more vigilant than complacency but it's tiring. Hearing people from our part of the world talking as if they are in hardship, in general terms, I understand individuals struggle, when we are watching box sets and playing on our tablets. Or hearing people call them anti Fascist activists when they would piss themselves if confronted by a proper Fascist. Our society is too soft, has it too easy to produce revolutionaries, I imagine the US is the same, in fact I'm confident it is.

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    1. 70 million people vote for him, knowing what he is so whether they would reject a coup is a moot point. At the same time surveys from a number of years ago found Democrats slightly more inclined towards the use of violence in the event of a Republican Party victory in 2020. The harsh attitudes by Republicans towards Democrats were equally reflected in the Democrats' attitudes towards republicans.
      Hysteria is not necessarily more vigilant than complacency. Too often it watches the wrong game and is prone to the loudest cheer leader.
      You are free to think that in years we might mock the Trump coup but that does not mean we should be complacent about it or its potential to cause mayhem in such a polarised society.
      I have no confidence in revolutionaries, seeing them much as I do reverends. And I think it is a Western faux-radical past time to amplify their own oppression, but that has little or nothing to do with issues currently on the ground in the US.

      Delete
  11. David

    A coup d'etat is not defined by how violent it can be or how many people are involved -or even the overwhelming odds stacked against the insurectionists/rebillion -for example, Trump could theoretically stage a 1 man coup by simply refusing to leave the White House -he could easily be overpowerwed and carried out -attempted coup over.

    You are also mixing up grievances and protests (peaceful or violent) about state abuses of power or unjust laws which can co-exist with elections as the ultimate means of change -What Trump and his supporters have attempted and are continuing to do is maintain Trump as an unelected President of the US -in otherwords they are trying to impose an unelected regime over the rightful democratic new administration -that is a coup. They are not expressing disappoinment about who won or who lost the election they are trying to assert (overthrow) the democratic process --replace the existing democratic regime with an autocratic regime ; what occured is factual and not a conspiracy theory as you suggest -it was witnessed live all around the world. And it is not over yet by a long shot, probably what occurs in the next 7 days may determine the future of the US.

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  12. Anthony,
    I disagree. There's a world of difference between voting in a constitutional election for a loony than betraying your country, sacrificing your cushy life, sacrificing your freedom and even your life for said loony. It's easy to vote in protest, not so much to shot in protest.
    Expressing violence vocally towards your opponents is ninety nine percent bullshit. I don't know how many I've sat in peoples company hearing talk about what they would do to loyalists, knowing they wouldn't do nothing.
    I think they are watching the wrong game with Trump. He's a gift to Democrats. There's a US comedian, Jimmy Dore pressuring the squad to withhold support for Pelosi until she puts a vote on the floor for Medicare for all. They were found wanting, Cortez, the lot of them, shown for what they are, frauds. Dore 's argument was even if it didn't work, they would be on record saying they were against health care in a pandemic. They argued that's not how it works and it's dividing. Now they are using they very arguments to impeach Trump. Pretending we're on the verge of anarchy is playing in to the hands of the Democrats to deflect, Trump is a gift to these people. It also lends him credence with his base, although I'm in two minds there, the zealots would support him regardless I think, except to war.
    When is society not polarised? To hear some people speak, you'd think before Brexit and Trump we all in the peace Corps. There was a war in our part of the world. In the US they had the Tea party against Obama, furore over Clinton, the anti war protests. Thirty years ago there was a cold war, eighty years ago a world war, we're probably never been less polarised, especially in terms of violence. You just get more people opinions now, due to social media.
    It's not about having confidence in revolutionaries, it's that they don't exist. Amplifying your own oppression is intertwined in with what's going on. That exposing of the racist nature of the US and the subsequent defending of it helped elevate and maintain Trump.

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  13. David,

    The Germans voted in a constitutional election for a deranged sociopath. I am sure many of them did not endorse his endgame but there was a reservoir of sentiment there that allowed it to eventually happen.
    Cite some data for expressions of violence towards opponents being bullshit.
    If you think US society is not polarised to a greater degree than other societies, or than it previously was feel free. You can believe whatever you want, even God. You are even free to think everybody but yourself has lost the plot.
    It just leaves me finding your take less and less plausible.
    But there we go.

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  14. Anthony,
    The Germans were poverty striken, paying reparations for a lost war, he promised them a way out. He also had the backing of the fat general, therefore the military. He also locked up dissenters, murdered them almost instantly. There's no comparison.
    I'm well aware I'm free to think as I feel. If you find me implausible, good. I think the idea of a US civil war delusional. If I agreed with you what would be the point in engaging? You would be vocalising my point therefore expressing mine would be unnecessary.

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  15. Christy,
    Trump has already stated he intends to leave. Challenge it legally. He has no basis there either, that will fizzle. We will speak again in seven days and we will see how this 'coup' materialises.
    I don't know where I mixed up grievances and protests, I don't grasp what you mean there.
    He's stated he'll leave, take it to the Supreme Court, the most radical thing he said was he won't attend Biden's inauguration. He also tried to distance himself from the protests, even though he helped arrange them. To say this is the actions of a man attempting a coup is a conspiracy theory. There's no substantial evidence to back this up.
    I know nothing about US constitutional law, is attempting a coup mentioned in his impeachment? If he's found guilty of that, I'll retract what I said and apologise. Until then I'll call it a conspiracy theory.
    My orginal point stands, if this is what passes for a coup in western civilisation. The establishment a have fuck all to worry about.

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  16. Thanks for that David. Hope it's good where you are

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  17. You're welcome. Not really, it's snowing and I can't get to work again. I have this site to pass the time,thanks for that. I have heard that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, surely a man of your intelligence would not engage in it?

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    1. I love sarcasm. But this was not sarcasm, merely a formally polite way - rather than ignoring - of disengaging from people I am not ill disposed towards but whose opinions fail to stir any further curiosity in me.

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  18. David

    There is a lot of video evidence of Trump and his messangers stirring up the pot. Since making the video wherein he read a script saying that he would leave he has regretted reading that script. He has since made a few mutterings that there should be no violence -but that is begrudging and seems to be motivated out of realisation that it is costing him financially and he could be sued for the damage and deaths caused from the attempted coup. It is back firing on him.

    Re Grievances and protests -people express their resentments and objections about the successful election of who they did not want to lead their country -they can even hold peaceful sit ins in government buildings --that is part of democracy so long as it is peaceful but you seem to dismiss bringing guns, explosives and hand ties to take back what was 'stolen' as part of protest.
    The weaponary shows intent/motive that goes beyond the normal range of protest -even violent protest.

    An attempted coup does not have a guarantee of success and failure does not negate the attempt -that the attempted coup on Capitol Hill was amaturish and almost impotent does not change the its foolish intention. Your original point was that this was not an attempted coup because it did not meet your level of violence requirments -in fact, your new version that the west has nothing to fear from coups like last weeks attempt suggests you accept it was an attempted coup; just we shouldnt worry about it -that is a different matter.

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  19. Anthony,
    Politeness is unnecessary.
    Christy,
    I don't think I do mix up grievances and protests nor do I dismiss the weaponry, rather the inability or unwillingness to use them to me proves their impotency. That was my original point, this the great threat, is it?
    A mate of mine put me on to Alex Jones about a decade ago, there's a part of me that thinks that man plays a part or maybe he's just a half wit, anyway it's entertaining. His fan base is Trumpeteers and their always stirring the pot. Obama was turning the US into a communist dictatorship, they are going to war, the globalists are taking over, their going to war, vaccines are population control, their going to war. They've been going to war every week for the last decade, I've yet to hear them fire a shot. I can't take these people serious.
    He's charged with inciting insurrection. Insurrection is an uprising against a government, maybe they get him on that. As stated I don't believe they are a credible threat. A coup is a sudden seizure of power, that obviously didn't happen. An attempted coup? Maybe technically you're right and I'm wrong, fine. It is the worst coup I've ever seen.
    I don't know you, if I come across mocking, it's unintentional, It's not your opinion, that annoys me, it's these pretend revolutionaries. When we talk in a weeks time, A month, whenever, I'm very confident nothing will have happened. They have a rally, armed, wave their flags go home with their chests puffed out. They are all lions until there is lion stuff to do.

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  20. ANTIFA destroyed numerous cities Nancy with Dems encouraged it. Once again the liberals can't see the wood for the trees.. Nancy is 90 a toxic zillionaire and intends to run again in four years. It's not about Trump it's about the swamp. Trump was just the wrong choice of Trojan horse.
    Larry Hughes

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    1. Larry

      So what be your preferred choice of Trojan horse be? A smooth talking, clean shaven, well educated White nationalist bigot like Richard Spenser? Because that is a scenario which may very well happen; Trumpism without the moronic qualities of the Donald but more dangerous than him.

      FYI |The Democrats have never supported violence from Antifa or anyone else in American cities.

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  21. I meant to write they're going to war, not their going to war. This stupid correct thing changes what I write all the time.
    Anthony,
    politeness is unnecessary line sounds snarky on rereading. That's not how it was intended. Writing isn't my strong point. I just mean if you think I'm talking shite just say so, they'll be no offense taken this end.

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  22. Barry,
    Richard Spenser endorsed Biden, what you make of that? While I'm here, I apologise for calling you an idiot. You get under my skin and I don't know why. It's a personality problem I have, when people get under my skin I have always reacted, although I suppose it's better to vent on here than it is through violence. Anyway name calling didn't bring anything to the conversation so apologies.
    Anthony,
    Sometimes I read things a couple of days after I write them and they seem to have a different context, maybe it's my mind that is different, anyway it's better to clear it up. I was also trying to get the last word in but that's fucking impossible with you!

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