Challenging mindsets

Guest writer Antaine de Brun, a young republican and member of the 1916 Societies from West Tyrone, with his take on the challenges facing republicanism in the current political climate.

Having observed recently the encouraging debate on the current position and methodology of Irish republicanism, this, taken in context with the developments that justify Jim Slaven’s claim that the movement is ‘emerging from a long, dark tunnel’, makes it hard not to experience a latent sense of optimism and encouragement in looking forward. However, from the first-hand observations of a young Irishman, there exists a persistent nebulous in the form of the overwhelming mind sets of our younger generations which shrouds such optimism.

While it would be too simple and indeed unfair to reflect on the political and social attitudes of previous generations, assume a radical psychological difference due to the indelible mark their actions have left on Irish history and juxtapose this with the prevailing mind sets of today, whether or not today’s attitudes are new is irrelevant. This political indifference and passive acceptance of the status quo is nonetheless an issue which perseveres and one which requires an urgent solution. After all, in the pursuit of an independent democratic republic, isn’t the education and assimilation of the youth a fundamental priority for a progressive trajectory?

Indeed, the difficulty of integrating young minds into the republican cause varies with circumstance. For example, there is little doubt that in the context of an armed campaign and the inevitable British response that the task can be much easier, however unpalatable this may sound. The propaganda propagating the ‘romantic’ nature of war, the resentment cultivated by violent security force actions and incessant headlines pervading the lives of virtually everyone make this indubitably easy and have often acted as the motivating factors to the most prominent campaigns of Irish history. Interestingly, it is more often than not the actions of the crown forces that contribute most significantly to this, the impact of such actions distinguishing the consequences of, for example, the Easter Rising and Bloody Sunday of the recent Troubles from the inert Border Campaign. This is corroborated by the fact that the murders of Sean South and Fergal O’Hanlon managed to stimulate some public response from an otherwise lifeless endeavour. Yet, in spite of this, it is obvious that such actions and campaigns have profoundly negative consequences - severe enough that no sane person actively seeks a return to the violence which has happened in the past as a first choice of tactic for Irish republicanism nor while alternatives exist.

Furthermore, on the back of such an extended campaign, republicanism in the twenty first century finds itself in dire circumstances. As the past number of decades have induced an overwhelming war weariness which has in many cases cultivated a fatigue in republican activism and laid the foundations for ruthless normalisation, it would be extremely easy to argue that making republicanism a popular movement has never been more difficult.

However, one must instead look to the positives of our position. While lacking what history has proved to be a catalyst for a more widespread and immediate appeal, the interesting words of Tommy McKearney succinctly state the flaws of this in any case. In saying that it was not until he spent time in prison before he recognised that republicans were not just a minority in the Catholic community, but in the IRA also, a wider comment on the motivations behind becoming involved in the movement is promulgated. Indeed, how can a solid political and social movement be founded on motivations of anything other than core ideology and still be tailored for long-term success?

Instead, the twenty first century provides a unique opportunity for expanding republicanism based on genuine education and principle of our youth. However, there must be a major rethink in how this is to be achieved. Rather than dubious lip service to the importance of young minds and bodies to the future of Ireland which all too often fall on deaf or indifferent ears, the very reasons as to why the message is unheard or ignored must be examined, and the appropriate strategies put in place to counteract this.

Admittedly, with the difficult position Irish republicanism finds itself in, this is easier said than done. The precipitation of our ‘Good Friday Generation’ who (with exception) find themselves entirely disengaged or in contempt of Ireland’s political and social issues makes this a particularly problematic task. Furthermore, as with most such issues, the root causes of this are extremely variable and will naturally encompass a range of factors yet, nonetheless, are relatively simple to diagnose if more difficult to treat.

Only a superficial analysis of the situation reveals the more common aspects preventing a youth from becoming interested or involved in republicanism. This can firstly be attributed to the relentless policy of normalisation permeating every element of their life, incorporating everything from the media to school life and ranging from the blatant to the subtle, for example, official school textbooks citing the Burren of County Clare as a natural landmark of the British Isles and the blanket use of ‘Northern Ireland’ as a legitimate state and identity. Not only is such unyielding subjection mind-numbing, it bolsters another overarching perspective that republicanism is a clandestine ideology which is underground or of doubtful legality. Naturally, subsequent to decades of conflict and its continuing thorny legacy, such conclusions are not only arrived at by youths themselves but passively or actively nurtured by parents or relatives who will (understandably) endeavour to provide their children with the best possible opportunities and seek to set them on a path which diverges from the horrors they have witnessed. Indeed, the actions of others play an often significant role in the formation of such attitudes - regardless of their alleged intentions - as exemplified by the impact of the 1998 Agreement. This, in coldly realistic terms, exploited the popular desire for peace, replaced republicanism with an emasculated form and made acceptable the British presence in Ireland. As a consequence, for many of those who may seek an active interest in republican activism, their consciences have been settled by the fact that self-purported republicans are fighting their corner peacefully and politically in Stormont. Why should they strive for change when they are convinced by ‘veterans’ of the struggle that everything that can be done to advance the cause is being tried by them?

Reasons why a younger generation may not become involved in republicanism today are seemingly innumerable, and it is important not to overlook the simple factors such as an innately defeatist attitude that the republic is an unrealistic prospect, that they can find no vehicle for becoming involved nor indeed to dismiss the concept that there are other priorities which are considered more important than what to them is an abstract ideology. For others they may be simply content with the status quo. While such factors are unsurprising under current circumstances, they present a direct challenge to the bedrock of republican ideology – why, in a country which still experiences occupation by an imperialist force and intrinsic economic difficulties island-wide, is the alternative so unappealing? Is it the nature of the ideology, or is it the strategies used to propagate it and the tactics used to advance its cause? Such difficult questions must be examined forensically and answered sufficiently if republicanism is to move forward on a positive footing. People must debate the realities of what is often too difficult to contemplate.

Unfortunately, too often republicanism condemns itself to an inexorable cycle of strategic futility motivated by a fervent feeling of principle, but a vague grasp of practice. Too often what constitutes a ‘republican’ action or strategy depends on whether it has been used by those noble figures from history, yet the question must be asked, and has been more recently, how the failed tactics – both peaceful and violent - of the past may be used successfully today? The strategies of republicanism must be driven forward, modernised and made compatible with the twenty first century lest the relevance of its ideals continue to be lost on younger generations. Put simply, the salvation of republicanism must come from the implementation of traditional principles with modern methods.

While the salvaging of republicanism continues with increasing efficacy and there are growing numbers returning to such principles, it is vitally important that republicanism is given a future in our youth. We must smash the myth that republicanism is criminal; smash the myth that its messages should only be whispered; smash the carefully fostered myth that it is an irrelevant relic of the past and utilise the unique methods offered by twenty first century Ireland. Otherwise, in spite of the encouraging developments of late, that optimism may well be short lived as we condemn ourselves to the failed destinies of the past by failing to tackle and find answers to the fundamental questions which may deprive Irish republicanism of a future if left unanswered.


  1. A decent read. Interesting to see the 'frustration' regarding the lack of interest in Republicanism as acknowledged by Tommy Kearney no less but at the same time an inability to consider an alternative to a philosophy which is utopian in nature and totally ineffective in practice.

    "In saying that it was not until he spent time in prison before he recognised that republicans were not just a minority in the Catholic community, but in the IRA also"

    The ideology of republicanism is unwanted by the Protestant/unionist people it sops to. If Eire Nua was a sop, republicanism is by definition a sop in itself. Young people joined the IRA as a means to fight back against an orange Nazi state. The provos were the only real option as the stickies had gone all watery-eyed and 'understanding' towards the unionists. The big bang theory referred to in this article such as Bloody-Sunday etc will only arise again when the unionists are in a position to deny the democratic wishes of the Irish people at a definitive moment in the future. Republicanism is itself not of interest per say and is certainly not a potent factor in itself. The sad reality is those who pledge their lives and loyalty to a fringe utopian and out dated political ideal are once again awaiting other factors and forces to provide the wind for their sails. And so it continues.

  2. Antaine-

    " isn't the education and Assimilation of the youth a
    Fundamental priority for a progressive trajectory ? "-

    The Borg used the same words in Star Trek copy cat-
    You sure it's not the Hitler youth that you have joined with your Assimilation of the youth - the world has seen enough of brown uniforms without your black jackets starting this sh1te-

    Fcuk knows how you or any of the youth have war weariness -and in my youth I never listened to advice-I just done what I wanted-

    The 1916 Societies preaching and supporting peace- Job done-

  3. Antaine,

    welcome to TPQ. Thanks for pushing this our way. Pleased to carry it.

  4. Pay no attention to that idiot young man, he's only on here to goad ye. The Societies are more than happy with the progress we're making, the good thing about it is we realise the extent of the job at hand and are aware of the long-term nature of our project. The youth of course is a key area to future development of both the Societies and republicanism in general so it was interesting to hear the opinions of someone so young on where things stand. By the way Mickey the fact you mention Hitler in relation to the Societies is risible given how your own party works, basically the personification of fascism with everything dictated from above. The irony of a Sinn Fein councillor coming out with that rubbish

  5. Sean,

    in terms of intellect it looks like a giant being criticised by a pigmy.

  6. Any man spoofing about war-weariness who was kicked out of the army for cowardice has a brass neck... Or maybe that's a different Michael Henry? Good article young Browne, hopefully the first of many

  7. Bit harsh there Michaelhenry.

    Whose (dead) BACK did you ride into the council on? SF may be dealing with UK constitutional political reality but what your leadership did and how they did it in order to electioneer themselves into partitionist careers is unpalatable. I personally believe republicanism is futile and to be honest it depresses me that youth would potentially devote their best years to it. The electorate have no desire for it and electioneering is the only game in town. The best I can envisage is a twenty year 'struggle' to get elected in place of your disgraceful SF party leadership. A worthy notion, but to me a 'wasted youth' no different to my own. That's merely my view. As for respectability, you just gave the young fella a turbo-boost there and exposed yourself as a wee provo bully. Surprised at you MH.

  8. " -and in my youth I never listened to advice-I just done what I wanted-"
    and in your old age it seems too michael.

    fair play to you young man. keep her lit and dont let plonkers and begrudgers get to you.
    larry a cara - what else is there for us - i see ur point but i believe a republic is a challenge to the people and if the people wont struggle for sovereignty then theres damn all else.

  9. Due to a glitch by myself the earlier version of this piece was a few paras short. Apologies to Antaine for any frustration that might have caused. It has since been corrected.

    Absolutely right - no one should be deterred, hectored or bullied by anyone out of holding whatever opinion they like. This intelligent contribution compared against the unintelligible rantings of Michaelhenry really needs no further comment.

  10. McIvor's agenda is to hector and deter surely, either that it he lives in a world of his own. Wait a minute...

  11. The article in question totally ignores the growth of SF across the Island and in particular the youth wing where hundreds if not thousands of young republicans are actively involved in political issues day and daily and ultimately are working to achieve the re-unification of Ireland.

    What can the 1916 societies offer our Republican youth? apart from a black jacket and a leaflet to register a totally meaningless 'One Ireland , One vote' online?

  12. Larry Hughes-

    " Bit harsh there "-

    A cub looking to Assimilate the youth and I am a bit harsh-

    I suppose you think the Russians were a bit harsh when they kicked the nazi's out of their country-

    That kind of talk is being beaten into the youth of the Societies -Assimilation-I never read it's equal -it's time parents get to know what's going on so they can keep their children safe from the Societies-

  13. I like MH, and enjoy his craic. It would be very interesting to see an article here from him at some stage mind you.

    Grouch, I understand and agree with your sentiment. As a grumpy wee old man, I'm just voicing my own take on things.

  14. Antaine, a thoughtful article that I was happy to read. But it ended on a false premise:
    “ We must smash the myth that republicanism is criminal; smash the myth that its messages should only be whispered; smash the carefully fostered myth that it is an irrelevant relic of the past”
    Sinn Fein would claim they are republican, and would say their brand of it is neither criminal, irrelevant or only to be whispered about . I point this out, because this is where the first battle lies, reclaiming the word without a ‘dissident’ prefix.

  15. I personally believe republicanism is futile

    Larry I have a problem in getting my head around that (or anytime you've mentioned it). If it wasn't for a few keeping the flame of Irish Republicanism alive then the 1916 rising probably wouldn't have happened. I agree that SF as a political party are no longer republican. I am sure there are Republicans within SF.

    Republicanism as an ideology isn't futile. How many Republics are on on this rock?

  16. From Mick Browne

    is this the michael henry mcivor who denied himself to me on the record who slabbered about the slaughter of paul quinn and called people who committed
    suicide as 'death-wanters'?

    a man who won't stand over his own comments? aka a liar.

    michael, why don't you tell people how you behaved when I phoned ye and put it to ye. You bolted. You denied yourself.

  17. From Mick Browne

    Michael Henry McIvor - you're talking about uniforms?

    are you for real?

    Is Declan Kearney aware of your existence?

    No one uses uniforms and guns more than your party, you coward.

    What else are those occasions where people are entreated to dress up in uniforms, c (circa) 1916, like every Bloody Easter?

    Did they use uniforms when they slaughtered Paul Quinn? Or, was that, in your view, not acceptable? should Paul have been treated like that?

    Eh, Michael Henry "It's Not Me' McIvor?

    Michael Henry McIvor - You are a bloody, despicable coward.

  18. Frankie

    For me DaithiD touches upon my take on it. I've mentioned it before, FF WP, SF all end up at the same destination-failure after running the same predictable circuit on the same tired 'political pony'.

    There are many republics on this 'rock' USA eg?? Is the Whitehouse or Leinster house home to a republic? Where I see all the valiant and commendable efforts going is to a point of political pressure for a united Ireland and then it's enter the orange-card AGAIN, stage right. At that stage another provo type entity may appear.

    Republicanism is of no interest to the prods and induces fatigue and tiredness in nationalist circles. Its like having the Jehovah's at the door.

    The end result will be Michael-henry, John O'Dowd and the Johnny-come-lately SF types walking into cozy wee jobs on the backs of others. OR is it just all about doing to SF what they did to the SDLP.

    Frankie, HONESTLY, what is new in it?

  19. I can't speak for the whole of Ireland Jojo but if Tyrone is anything to go by then Sinn Fein is in decline and has lost its credibility with the republican base. Totally. Republicans are looking for a vehicle to prosecute the struggle that Sinn Fein abandoned in favour of constitutionalism and the ongoing pursuit of power within the British arrangements for this country. That's what the Societies have to offer, a return to republicanism, and I tell ye what it must be in demand because they are growing at an incredible rate, much quicker than anticipated. The key for us now is to harness that demand and put it to use, if nothing else it will keep the flame alive for a new generation and that's a triumph in its own right given the mess left by the previous republican leadership. The idea for now is to build and to educate and to keep things on an even keel, your dismissal of what we're about ignores the total failure of your own party to advance a united Ireland agenda and the fact it is now partitionist to the core. And for McIvor to speak about keeping children safe when it's his party that covers for rapists and paedophile's is cynical in the extreme - to say the very least 

  20. Sean Bres

    What is the 1916 position on the unionist veto? AND on unionism in general?

  21. MH


    You guys in SF are so fucking brainwashed you don't blink at revelations like Liam and Gerry Adams and their antics. That's only the tip of the 'turd' you people refuse to smell. Any other party and your leadership would have been forced out decades ago. But not with SF coz you have your brain removed on application to join the party.

    Take a render MH.

  22. Mick bent back Browne-

    " denied himself to me on the record "-

    If you have a tape of that conversation put it on the web-
    Don't keep it to yourself- otherwise take a long jump of your righteous cliff -

  23. Countries will end up with the Mcivors of this rock ruling over them as long a people vote for them. Today in the north there are alternatives. Three who have used TPQ to high-light there campaigns..SF, as several posters have said, aren't an Irish republican party. I fail to understand why the same posters use Irish Republicanism and SF in the same sentence, never mind the same breath.

    I wouldn't use America as an example of what a republic can be..Whats wrong with Ice-land or San Marino..

  24. Larry I actually discussed your concerns this morning with a veteran republican from Cookstown, ex-Blanketman and one of the most respected men I know. The Societies have no notion of going down the road of a party-political strategy and are set-up to make sure we don't repeat that mistake. As for the position on the Unionist Veto it's the same position republicans have always promoted - all of the people of Ireland, the Unionists included, are entitled to a free vote as to what type of constitutional arrangements they want for their country. What could be wrong with that? My own position is the same as RSF - after such a vote had been allowed for and if it mandated a reunified Ireland then a constituent assembly should be drawn up representative of every shade of opinion in this country to put in place a new constitution, hopefully to be based along the lines of Eire Nua to deliver maximum participation in the democratic process from that point on. We shouldn't be defeatist in our attitude towards republicanism - it still has a role to play in achieving progress in this country, even if it remains along way off its ultimate aims. It has always been a force for good and will continue to be so. Get down to that meeting in Dublin you were on about to you see what we're made off for yourself, I think you'll be genuinely surprised - just as you were the day I took you and Dieter up to that commemoration. Republicanism is far from dead and buried and the calibre of people involved with the Societies, both in terms of ex-Volunteers and new faces, is first rate. That's not an exaggeration. We should stick with this and see if we can recover the lost ground, time is on our side

  25. McIvor,
    Do you always talk with your butt..? Your head is so far up your ass, I bet you actually taste the shit you talk..

    Can it be proven you are one and the same (McIvor & MichaelHenry). Short answer is yes. Have I sent emails & letters to several journalists showing your remarks about Paul Quinn, suicide wanters, gloating that the provisionals killed more people than the 'disso's'..and denials on the web..? Again the short answer is yes. You are unfit for public office, period.

  26. I feel we need to start looking at where Sinn Fein has gone as an ideological and indeed a strategic abberation away from republicanism and towards establishment constitutionalism and we shouldn't assume that every political party or organisation will end up doing the same thing - especially as their example is there for all to learn from. O'Bradaigh and the traditionalists proved if nothing else that there are genuine republicans of principle who set the struggle as their priority rather than personal gain - I work with plenty of people who I consider in the same light. The extent of control allowed to a leadership clique is the biggest lesson other groups have sought to draw from the failure of Provisional Sinn Fein, had their been genuine democracy within the party much of what they rammed through would never have been permitted. Tony I'm sure can attest to that as can I from my own experience at the time - we were basically dictated to through a carefully orchestrated and choreographed series of in-house meetings. The 1998 Agreement was at the very least poorly negotiated by a cabal from West Belfast who thought they knew better than the rest of us. Never again should we permit such cronyism to hijack the republican struggle, that if nothing else would be a starting point from which to move forward

  27. Frankie,

    I think the beautiful Latin phrase ignoramus et ignorabimus just about sums up Michaelhenry's attitude. 'We do not know and we shall not know.' When people are so determined not to learn, there really is no point.

  28. sean bres
    i think there is going to be a grassroots exodus from psf by 2016, the game is up for them, and its this internet thing that is showing them up. and a few decent mid-ranking people as well will leave too. and i dont think im being foolish or optimistic saying that. im not saying everything is going to be rosy then but at least we can try and make something out of it.

    larry, i met a hare krishna today and he told me to stop drinking fluoridated water as it has made us docile and apathetic (its intention) and then we both had a rant about bono (he was more understanding than me but it was great to hear what he thought of his antics yesterday). and people slag the hares . one sound man he was, and i recommend looking into the fluoride thing. i think whatever we call ourselves - nationalist, gaels, republicans, socialists, saordonians etc etc we should all get a bit wider to how we are under attack/oppressed in different ways now. things are different for this generation and i wish antaine and the younger ones coming thru now the best.

  29. Grouch if you look at what's going on on the ground in strongholds like East Tyrone the exodus you speak off has already happened. Even in areas where the republican movement in Tyrone was not as strong or embedded in the people Sinn Fein's grass-roots is in disarray with more and more coming to accept that where we've ended up is the last place we ever expected - and they are walking away. We want no further part in their sickening pantomime, we want a sovereign, independent Ireland - that same thing young lads like John Quinn, Dwayne O'Donnell and Malcolm Nugent, who were murdered in Boyle's Bar, Cappagh by the coward proxies of the British state along with Tommy Nugent 23 years ago last week, joined the republican movement to help bring about. Like Lynagh and McKearney's strategy of one field at a time the people are returning to republicanism over an ever-expanding area out from the hills of Tyrone and beyond to every town and village in Ireland and all our big cities. Is this the thing we have been waiting for? Only time will tell but the Societies go to see that all was not for nothing and if all we achieve is to hand over a legacy to a new generation that accurately reflects what the young men and women of Tyrone set out to achieve then we will have done our job successfully. 'Tis a long road ahead but sure we've got something solid to build on. This weekend marks the 40th anniversary of Kevin Murray and Paddy McDonald and while Ireland holds their graves, to paraphrase Pearse, we owe her a debt and that debt will one day be repaid. We have something to build on so let's go out and do it. The One Ireland-One Vote campaign can serve as the spearhead we need to get the republican struggle back on track, to my mind it's an excellent way to start putting the pieces of the puzzle back together again

  30. Anthony that latin phrase sums Michael McIvor up. He goes off the richter scale on stupidity. He tries to defend in the indefensible. I find a lot of his comments offensive. I am glad you didn't 'bow' to public pressure and ban him. What he is good for is showing people what is wrong with SF at grass roots. Everyone knows whats wrong with SF at leadership level. ..

    I just Googled SF & Brainwashing and found this by Liam O Ruairc..The Blanket is a great source for free thought..(still digesting the Hugh Orde interview).


    Years ago I was listening to James Whale on the radio interviewing someone like Alex Jones..Long story short the jist was the powers that be are putting things into drinking water to lower the sperm count in men.. Fluoride in water...

    This poison, banned by the EU in 2006, is a component of toxic waste industrial chemicals. Yet it's been pumped into our water since 1964 to reduce dental decay....Furthermore, this non-biodegradable and highly corrosive acid is contaminated with a number of heavy metals, including arsenic, aluminium, lead and mercury....

  31. Sean Bres

    I'm inclined to make my way to that Dublin even because it is relevant to research I'm looking into us much as for my belief at this stage that republicanism is the holy grail. I've no doubt it will be a good event and the people solid, as you are in Tyrone. Though the round trip is a deterrent.

    If the societies are not involving themselves in party politics or electioneering then I'm already confused. Are they building for the next rising? Or educating the youth for the big-vote when it arrives?

    SF could get a monkey in a suit elected because the RC electorate that was never necessarily republican bought first into the protest vote during the hunger-strikes and later into the piss-process in as a means to disband the IRA. Elections were also a wee career move for yes-men and gob-shites. The fact young people like Antaine prefer the societies to the fast track to expenses in a local council with SF will indeed be a worry to SF. I knew Sheena Campbell and she was very much into youth as a strategy long term, the huns murdered her for her foresight.

    Good sign at least that SF may no longer have a RC political monopoly thanks to the Brit media assistance.

  32. encouraging to hear that bres, and lets be big and decent and not hold grudges. and my big hope - no armed actions save for defence but please God that wont happen. and lets get wide to how powerful those underground in palace barracks are and not fall into traps they want us to. also i liked the "reclaim the spirit of 1916" vibe about 75th anniversary. and lets use this internet to the hilt for 2016. anyway - beir bua sean, im encouraged by young antaine and ur last comment there.

  33. Frankie

    my brother-inlaw in Derry is very much outspoken on the fluoride in water. Personally I had reservations but felt it better than drinking untreated water. I'm not worrying about my spunk quality at 50 to be honest, though keeping some teeth could be a plus, if I ever venture to Lisdoonvarna for example.

  34. I hold no grudges Grouch and have no problem with people in Sinn Fein or anyone who still see's their play as the way to move forward. I think it's only fair though that their position, as our own, is up for debate and criticism - but that's not something they're prepared to cede, because they are fully aware their argument and logic are fatally undermined by the triple-lock process. For too long they got away with dictating to people what was good for them and we see now where it has led, with the party in the pocket of the Brit establishment and unable or unwilling to rock the boat for fear it might impact on their new-found position. The party and the party's interests supersede the movement and its interests, which I now see as separate from Sinn Fein. Because round these parts Sinn Fein no longer represents the republican movement, a point best illustrated by the Easter events of last year when the republican people of Tyrone shunned their commemoration and turned out by the thousand the following day for the event organised independently. That and the fact command structures of the army told them the East Tyrone Brigade was no longer aligned to their leadership when they attempted to play the 'P. O'Neill' card in relation to a dispute over policing, despite the fact they'd already publicly stood down the army in 2005, tells you everything you need to know about how people in Tyrone view what they're at. Unfortunately that still leaves us back at square one but the important thing is we can now start to move forward. I share your views on any further use of the armed struggle by the way and feel it has run its course and served its purpose. I don't reject it from a moral point of view but subscribe to the view that the war is over. We need to look deeper into why the war took place to begin with and hopefully learn something from that going forward

  35. larry - 50, the way u go on ud swear u were 90, ur in ur prime a mac.

  36. Mickey,

    therein may lay the problem that as a youth you never listened and now you refuse to listen.
    I recollect SF using many a youngster including myself going door to door collecting for the PDF and flogging An Phoblacht would that qualify me as Hitler youth?

    What is SFs excuse when it comes to war weariness concede everything and call it a victory of brinkmanship. It would be difficult to see SF anywhere without the aid of British advisors. SFs only successful coup was taking down the army council and forcing them to embarrassingly surrender with major concessions.

    The party piggybacked into British office on the back of dedicated people who fought, died, suffered through gaols all to reopen the puppet rule of Stormont.

    What is the difference between SF youth and the republican youth that are not inline or aligned with SF policy?
    The youth are fortunate that they have a well of information to draw upon it would be a matter of choice if they wished to follow which ever group appeals to their particular perspective.

    SF had no problem assimilating into Stormont and even less problem dancing a wee SF jig for Westminster’s amusement.

    I don’t view SFs brand of republicanism as anything else as distorted and misleading not to mention confusing as they wave a union jack trying to sell a United Ireland.
    What is clearly inherently wrong with SF is leaders for life it is undemocratic and wreaks of fascism.

    The other major fault is they believe they are the rightful heirs of republican ideology the problem with that being you cannot own an ideology we can belong to or follow the principles and from that path SF strayed too far.
    Going from the old stance of Brits out to the new squeaky clean stance of accommodating British rule to the point of political embarrassment of denouncing republicans who don’t seek shelter under the SF umbrellas I use the plural as it is difficult to decipher where exactly they stand.

    The scale of hypocrisy is hard to ignore denouncing physical force republicans for engaging in what they once not only endorsed but claimed there would never be capitulation hardly a trustworthy endorsement of a party of capitulators.
    They are even critical of non-violent republicans who do not follow them they certainly listened well to their English masters when it comes down to smearing and spreading anti-republican propaganda.

    Mickey, you always make the best arguments as to why people should avoid SF.
    It is important for the interested youth to educate themselves and especially study the pitfalls of the politics of SF.
    It would be one thing if they held the interest of the people or even made a better attempt at disguising their only true interest and that is the party comes first.

    With the guns and bombs basically out of the way republicanism has the opportunity to examine the ethos and pursue through an intellectual critical study of what is the best approach to rebuilding the republican ideology that SF played a major role in decimating.

    That is not an appeal for the return of the gun but an aim with a goal to return the principles of republicanism as SF continue to distort, dismantle, and deny the basic fundamentals and are unreserved with their policy of making demons out of republicans who don’t follow their lies.

    The younger generations that have not been corrupted with SF have that advantage they can rebuild republicanism and restore pride that SF sold.
    Obviously with your Hitler youth remark you don’t think too highly of the younger generation you insult their intelligence and I am confident they would be able to distinguish the irony of your slur coming from a quasi fascist party that fears any republican political opposition.

  37. I'll be genuinely surprised if either Mickey, Jojo or anyone else responds to that Tain. Game, set and match, signed, sealed and delivered, whatever way you want to put it... There's no getting up from that sledgehammer - out for the count

  38. Sean,

    even if JoJo's premise might sound disagreeable his question is a far cry from the unintelligle gibberish that Michaelhenry churns out on almost everything.

    I think he asks a question that is in the minds of many young people and you have sought to address it above. I would caution against the mistake of thinking that all young Shinners are cut from the Michaelhenry cloth.

  39. yes well said bres, and whats nice about gettin on a bit is listenin to the younger ones comin thru, ireland, even though i bitch about her a bit sometimes, will always be knocking them out

    glad u made that comment there, so many good young irish people have been deceived by the doublespeakers and media savvy spin doctors in that party.

  40. Tain Bo-

    " denouncing physical force Republicans "-
    I never denounced the Provos during the war-unlike others-

    " with the guns and bombs basically out of the way "

    The dissos have their own guns and bombs but have stopped using them against the Brits-the new nickname for the Brit loving ONH is Only Neighbours Harmed-

    " including me "-

    So you were in Sinn Fein back in the day and were to scared or stupid to Question-I asked Questions from I was 10 in 81 till today-
    You had no brown shirt or black jacket on you going around the doors so people seen you as human and not a uniform-


    " far cry from the unintelligible gibberish "

    I will always oppose those that want to Assimilate our youth- you and Tain Bo won't-very surprised at you twos stance on this issue-

  41. if ur into askin questions still michael, ask martian magoo this - when he said "we will lead you to the republic" at end of his speech at 86 ard fheis (a 'gerry' mandered ard fheis which shafted the republicans in the movement) did he envisage himself ending up in stormont and gerry in leinster house. michael, uve got to get away from that crowd, u cud end up in westminister in the house of lords. lord michael henry of cookstown - i dont want to see u end up with that handle.

  42. 'I'll be genuinely surprised if either Mickey, Jojo or anyone else responds to that Tain. Game, set and match, signed, sealed and delivered, whatever way you want to put it... There's no getting up from that sledgehammer - out for the count'.

    Tend to agree with that. MH responds but just with wee snippets. That's more the pity.

  43. Michaelhenry,

    if you were not so fluent in gibberish I might have considered responding.

  44. Grouch

    at 50 I may indeed be in me prime but I'm getting the odd DLA zimmerframe moment in for when the time comes. Utilising my age as a potential asset.

  45. Mickey,

    I was not a member of SF there was nothing for me to question I am not remotely sure what you mean by that.
    You would have to take that up with someone from ONH I am sure they would have a funny name for SF like Sellout First.

    That is a relief that people might have seen me as human what would attire have to do with it humans are easy to indentify whether buck naked or dressed up as a clown.

    I am not sure what “including me” means since I am stupid you should elaborate so I may understand your cryptic puzzles.

    Perhaps you should note how Jo Jo presents his view easy to follow and precise which makes it understandable.

    Anthony was being generous with gibberish as you have a unique alien way with language.

    Apparently comprehension is not a requirement for you if you read what I said rather than what you seen through your SF eyes only regarding youth I said they have a choice to follow if interested any group that they feel suits their perspective the any group would be inclusive of SF.

    Although you would prefer to dictate and believe SF have a monopoly on republicanism that does not apply to free thinking republicans.
    You seem to think the youth are not so bright if they prefer to follow SF then fair play to them if their preference is a different group then again fair play.
    There is a great difference between indoctrination and encouragement the politically interested youth are smart enough to differentiate and capable of deciding for themselves what path suits them.

    You state you never listened to advice and then you state you asked questions since you were 10 correct me if I am wrong but wouldn’t an answer fall under the category of advice either direct or indirect.
    Mickey, it is not your cryptic remarks or even your fluency in riddles it is the extreme effort you try to present with your perplexing dedication to SF.
    I think I could safely assume it would be the general consensus of readers and posters alike that you are something of an enigma you try too hard to prove that you eat, sleep, and shite SF.
    In other words you are self indoctrinated to the point you are incapable of believing there are other political parties with opposing views.

    I don’t mind being stupid education is over rated and odd enough I had some very sound advice this morning which I appreciated.
    The great thing about advice it is free and usually well intentioned.
    You are a classic example of when the superfluous collides with the ridiculous resulting in some unexplainable need to prove you are a SF fanatic.

    I can envision your idea of a united Ireland with one party SF with the consumption of some hallucinogenic you can attain that perfect utopia.

  46. As usual McIvor seizes on something he believes he can exploit then flogs it to death - just as he tried to do a few weeks back with the Josie Connolly commemoration. The Societies are not about assimilating anyone, we are about empowering our youth through education and offering them an informed choice and indeed a role in the decision-making process as opposed to being told what to believe. We'll see where it leads

  47. michaelhenry said...

    Mick bent back Browne-

    " denied himself to me on the record "-

    If you have a tape of that conversation put it on the web-
    Don't keep it to yourself- otherwise take a long jump of your righteous cliff -

    He doesn't need a tape of anything you spineless cretin, sure you denied yourself to the Mid-Ulster Mail didn't you?

    "When the Mid Ulster Mail contacted Mr McIvor, he denied any knowledge of the comments, and said he had not contributed to the blog.

    “I don’t know who is behind this,” he told the Mail, saying he had been wrongly connected to the name ‘Michael Henry’.

    When asked if he would be seeking legal advice over the online allegations linking him to the suicide comments, Mr McIvor said ‘there’s little point, as I don’t know who to go after’...

    Aye you do No Balls. You know because I put my name to it...

  48. Dixie-

    " You know because I put my name to it-

    Aye Dixie-Am I going to take all the southern states of America up-

    I wish I was back home in Dixie all the soldiers used to sing-

  49. Idiot that you are you McIvor even a complete moron like yourself knows my full name as unlike yourself I'm not hiding nor denying who I am...

    I'm Thomas Elliott from Derry and I wrote the piece on this forum exposing you as a gutless cretin who insulted Paul Quinn and suicide victims.

    Are you now going to sue me Cookstown Cllr Michael Henry McIvor or are you still going to deny thats you are and shoot back into your wee hole?

  50. Dixie

    just curious, will YOU be standing for election next time out?

    Some people on here seem to be a tad intense.... maybe that's what attracted the Butcher types... blood in the water?

  51. MH

    I think you are perfect for norn-iron politics and proof positive it was a case of 'peace at any price'. But with Iris Robinson, and Jim Alister on the 'hill' and Gery Adams in the Dail you have a very bright future ahead!!

  52. Its unfortunate the debate on this article has been hijacked by Sinn Feins perpetual internet embarrassment.

    Id love to see something created where young republicans could engage sincerely with each other free from party political and historical interference. The political talent that exists within the various anti treaty organisations is an, as yet , untapped resource.

    A collective fresh analysis might just be what we are missing.

  53. Antaine,
    Very well written. One area that you didn't mention is the impact of technological development on people today. Are young peoples priorities centred elsewhere and being directed by technological forces. I've never heard a kid to date describe Wolfetone as 'awesome'!