Dr John Coulter with a piece on loyalism. It initially appeared in the August 13, 2012 edition of the Irish Daily Star.
A uniformed UVF man addressing a mainly republican crowd on Belfast's Falls Road! Now that's a picture of real peace in the North! It wasn't the start of a new Irish civil war, but a brave decision by Feile an Phobail to stage the loyalist 'Voices From Behind the Wire' presentation in St Mary's College.
The highlight of the event was the question and answer session which featured Progressive Unionist boss and former MLA Billy Hutchinson on the panel. Before the event, the crowd was treated to loyalist tunes and images of UVF and Red Hand Commando inmates at Long Kesh.
There was a lot of nervous shuffling as a former compound prisoner in modern day UVF regalia - not the original 1912 outfit – performed the poem, The Parade, about daily life for the UVF prisoners. Loyalists on the panel, especially Mr Hutchinson, had to field some very soul-searching questions from republicans.
But in spite of a dissident republican protest in support of MarianPrice outside the venue, Sinn Fein supporters inside the debate kept tempers in check.
It's just a pity the DUP and UUP Assembly teams were not present to hear the questions as they might have learned a few home truths about the state of Unionism and loyalism. It is a sorry state of affairs when republicans have to educate Unionists on how to fix the problems in the pro-Union community.
Why has 'Big House' Unionism allowed loyalism to become the underclass of the Protestant community? What was the loyalist campaign of violence all about? Why has the PUP been unable to make progress among Unionist voters? How can loyalism become a progressive movement when it is still tied to the monarchy? Is there any chance for working class politics in Protestantism while the Unionist parties are still influenced by the Orange Order? What has become of the female loyalist prisoners? Why have women ex-inmates not had the same influence on and role in Unionism and loyalism as female republicans?
How much influence did 'Big House' Unionism have on the relaunching of the UVF in the 1960s to oppose then Northern Premier Terence O'Neill's 'hand of friendship' to nationalists?
Then the bombshell - did any DUP politician ever allegedly ask the UVF to carry on killing Catholics to ensure there was no peace process or power sharing? This question prompted mumblings about the role of the late Scottish-born, firebrand DUP Assembly member George Seawright.
The North Belfast hardliner was booted out of the DUP because of his notorious 'Burn Catholics' remarks. He later formed his own extreme Protestant Unionist Party and Ulster Protestant League, before being murdered by the fringe Irish People's Liberation Organisation in 1987.
But the big question still remained unanswered - was Seawright the only DUP politician allegedly in cahoots with the UVF and Red Hand Commando?
While loyalist and republican inmates can share similar stories about their experiences in Long Kesh, modern loyalists have some bitter medicine to swallow compared to their republican counterparts.
While the IRA dog wagged the Sinn Fein tail, once loyalists ended up in jail, they were abandoned by the Unionist parties.
Loyalists can shout all they want that the solution to ending their political wilderness lies with the Protestant working class.
The reality is that loyalists must first convince the DUP and UUP that loyalism is a relevant voice in the new North. Simple solution, you Prods, just copy the Shinners!
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The chances of working class loyalists progressing out of the quagmire of big house unionist dominated politics has been diminished with the defeat of the republican movement,their leaders like Joe Cahill,s victory speech will be telling them how clever they really are and that they have won the war and saved Ulster,Cahill said similar things to the fools in qsf.loyalists in working class areas will not be allowed to develop any real socialist alternative to the dup control, while they are in the grip of fundamentalists like Paisley and Mc Crea and the rest, while Paisley the arch bigot may be on the slide there are plenty of collared extremists such as Gibson ex sb,lately uvf spokesman still around to manipulate the boys on behalf of the bigger boys,qsf would wish the nationalist republican community would slip down the political ladder thinking wise also it would make their lies all the easier to sell..
ReplyDeleteHow pathetic is that? Loyalists having a super laugh at the SF gobshites now. They don't need electoral success, they triumphed in the conflict. SF got so smart they 'outsmarted' themselves. Bet the loyalists had some laughs trying to get over the fact SF actually believe they are superior 'coz they figured out after 30yrs they were able to stand for elections in Northern Ireland. Patronising crap that article. Why aren't they moving to settle the bands issue instead of ratchetting it up? Coz they are having a laugh, that's why. SF are becoming dangerous.
ReplyDeleteDangerous-depressing, that is.
ReplyDeletewhat would happen if loyalists forged links with the SDLP at this stage now the conflict is over and nationalism disarmed? i mean, why bother with SF at all?
ReplyDeleteOwen Patterson is now defunct.
ReplyDeleteTheresa Villiers has been appointed Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.
Lets see if any improvement occurs.
What? Really don’t get this article at all. Who cares about Loyalism/Unionism and why pretend to differentiate between the two? Are we supposed to believe that there is a difference and that working class Protestants have so much in common with working class Catholics and that they are waiting on a saviour to lead them out of Unionism? And if so, towards what? What will it mean for the rest of the people here who bore the brunt of their sectarian racist acts of violence and continue to do so?
ReplyDeleteLook at the support from working class Protestants for Billy Hunter on the Shore Road and the working class Protestant behaviour outside St Patrick’s church.
Hutchinson and the rest are every bit as sectarian and racist as they were 40 years ago only now they no longer have a public domain to exercise their beliefs in!
Itsjustmacker Patterson did not dictate policy,he just implemented it I think Villiers will be no different.these people like qsf are just puppets for the real power brokers those men in suits at Westminster and Whitehall,I,m afraid the persecution of Marian and other republicans will continue,until the people from our communities as a whole say enough is enough.
ReplyDeleteitsjustmacker
ReplyDeleteits an oportunity for the brits to sort it. Also for the stormont brigade to try and push it too.
Marty
ReplyDeleteHe was working under section 4, ie, he can over rule any judges decision. Section 4 also applies to anywhere in the UK. If you were walking down a street, lets say, London,Birmingham,Manchester, you can be stopped by an ordinary peeler and arrested under section 4 and you are not allowed to ask any questions.
Larry.
I agree, This is the time for The Brits to make amends, Cameron knew paterson was getting to big headed.
We have Pat Doherty submitting an application for funding for Castlederg young loyalists flute band, on House of Commons notepaper. We have a psf driven residents group in carrickhill,accepting orangemen marching past st.patricks 'as long as they dont play music'. We've a Wal-Mart supermarket store commandeered to celebrate the death of a UVF double murderer. And now you tell me a psf orchestrated meeting had a fully regailed UVF clown spew his filth in the heart of republican west Belfast. For fk sake they're hav'n us for a laugh.
ReplyDeleteWho was it, said 'The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims'?
Itsjustmacker a cara I am not aware of this section 4 which you speak of,section 44 of the Terrorism act;reasonable suspicion is not required but person is in a specific area designated by the british sos (not currently in use)
ReplyDeleteTruthrevisionist fucking spot on a cara.
ReplyDeleteTruerevisionist, FYI the residents group in Carrick Hill is not psf driven, it's completely resident driven. Residents knew they'd the ear of the world when they made that 'gesture' & know exactly what they're doing. Don't for one minute think that any single one if them would be easily led by psf.
ReplyDeleteYou're obviously not too well informed on the goings on in that district since you're prepared to make such incorrect statements.
Belfastbookworm,
ReplyDeleteI am very well informed.I live in the greater new lodge area and this so called 'gesture' has the 'subservient' fingerprints of psf all over it.If you want to make a 'gesture to the world' with any backbone, get off your knees and tell the bastards they're not welcome.NOT ONE ORANGE FOOT outside that chapel,music or no music! You see, psf want the march to go ahead, no music. That pacifies our meek submissive demeanour.
PSF strategy - 'let them walk all over us, just make sure they clean their boots'
What a reverential fool you are Belfastbookworm, zoned in behind a facade of misinformation. These supremicist bastards don't want your obsequious 'gestures'. They want to rule you!
At the same event in St Marys, the leader of the YCV band who danced in circles outside St Patricks, was the lead in the UVF play.
ReplyDeleteNow there is something just not right, UVF inside and Republicans protesting about the current Internment of Irish Republicans outside?
Belfast Bookworm
ReplyDelete'they'd the ear of the world when they made that 'gesture' & know exactly what they're doing. Don't for one minute think that any single one if them would be easily led by psf.'
Two points:
1. If they had the ear of the world how come no one heard of it.
2. Do you think you're talking to people who never experienced SF and their community groups antics before? Wise up.
Like Garvaghy residents were not influenced by SF? Or any other residents group in nationalist areas? Yeagh yeagh and the IRA and SF were totally seperate too. SF has had a strategy for setting up these groups and then pretending they are not manipulating them. That's why it was good to hear the residents of an area discussing parades in a manner different to the SF agenda. SF recommend financing the loyalist bands with one hand and pull the strings of residdents groups with the other. Typical SF junk. But then sure they had volunteers riskin their lives and dying whilst they were surrendering and setting up jobs for themselves.
truthrevisionist
ReplyDelete'These supremicist bastards don't want your obsequious 'gestures'. They want to rule you!'
100% and they are the bigot trash from the likes of 'the estate'who have nothing else in life than being 'better' than a taig. The Orange Order for some reason have no interest in weeding out these drug/drink saturated scum from their parades. Why should anyone tolerate these people? Take them to Glengormley, Newtonards or Bangor for the day. But of course, there's no fun in that.
TR; just for your further information, no one from the actual New Lodge ever says they're from the 'greater' New Lodge so I can only assume that you're from the fringes of lower north Belfast with no real finger on the pulse of what is going on. Where were you while residents of both CH & NLR were protesting? You weren't there otherwise you'd have been informed of the decision & the reasons behind it.
ReplyDeleteCH is a tiny community of only a few hundred people. It's surrounded by the Shankill & is therefore very vulnerable & at risk - as it always was. Last Saturday the residents called out via social media & other media for support for the return leg of the march & if 30 people turned up they were lucky. I'm not hiding behind any facade, unlike you who is hiding behind a keyboard & slabberin' about things you know nothing of.
The OO don't care - you're right, they've danced their way over CH rights for decades but the gesture, for that's what it was, was carefully considered & influenced nor backed by no one.
marty.
ReplyDeleteProvision in relation to TPIMs
4.
The Bill contains a power for the Secretary of State to impose TPIMs on an individual (by means of a TPIM notice) if the following conditions are met:
(a)
The Secretary of State reasonably believes that the individual is or has been involved in terrorism-related activity (as defined in clause 4) (“condition A”);
(b)
Some or all of that activity is “new terrorism-related activity” (“condition B”);
(c)
The Secretary of State reasonably considers that it is necessary, for purposes connected with protecting members of the public from a risk of terrorism, for TPIMs to be imposed on the individual (“condition C”);
(d)
The Secretary of State reasonably considers that it is necessary, for purposes connected with preventing or restricting the individual’s involvement in terrorism-related activity, for each of the specified measures to be imposed on the individual (“condition D”);
(e)
The court has given permission for the TPIMs to be imposed, or the Secretary of State reasonably considers that the urgency of the case requires TPIMs to be imposed without such prior permission (in which case the TPIM is referred to the court within 7 days for confirmation) (“condition E”).
control orders have been abolished.
this way they can just lock anyone up and throw away the key. The clause that, "The Secretary of State Must In form The Court That a TPIM has been sanctioned. ie, if Judge says, "You Have Bail", Secretary of State Says, Oh No You Dont, your back inside under another TPIM".
Section "e" says it all.
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Sean Cahill, not that doesn't surprise me at all.
ReplyDeleteLarry, I'm well aware of psf's antics & of their very proactive strategy to infiltrate community organisations but I'm telling you for a fact that they are not leading this one. SF reps attended the meeting & rumours abounded that the CH residents told them to 'fuck off'. This didn't happen. I was there & it absolutely did not happen.
ReplyDeleteWhat did happen was that as soon as the SF councillor got up to speak people started muttering among themselves, totally ignoring him as his rhetoric was simply about encouraging residents to talk to the PSNI. A few people walked out but those who remained were completely & utterly bored. One person clapped. The councillors colleague - another councillor.
You have made my point for me in saying that that no-one heard the residents as only about 30 'outsiders' came to stand by & support the tiny community.
Think what you like but I am telling you now that CH residents are not being driven by Sf
And by the way Larry, the Garvaghy Road crisis happened at a very different time - most republicans were in support of SF then. To compare what is happening now is wrong - you're not comparing like with like.
ReplyDeleteLarry, I'm well aware of psf's antics & of their very proactive strategy to infiltrate community organisations but I'm telling you for a fact that they are not leading this one. SF reps attended the meeting & rumours abounded that the CH residents told them to 'fuck off'. This didn't happen. I was there & it absolutely did not happen.
ReplyDeleteWhat did happen was that as soon as the SF councillor got up to speak people started muttering among themselves, totally ignoring him as his rhetoric was simply about encouraging residents to talk to the PSNI. A few people walked out but those who remained were completely & utterly bored. One person clapped. The councillors colleague - another councillor.
You have made my point for me in saying that that no-one heard the residents as only about 30 'outsiders' came to stand by & support the tiny community.
Think what you like but I am telling you now that CH residents are not being driven by Sf
Belfast Bookworm
ReplyDeletefair do's. Hope things go well in the future. You are correct re Garvaghy ands people supporting SF at that time. Today no republican could support them and look in the mirror. SDLP have way more integrity.
Belfast Bookworm,
ReplyDeleteLarry Hughes has very succinctly explained the psf modus operandi in applying leverage on residents groups. We saw it in Ardoyne, with their disapproval of GARC,a group of residents who had the backbone to take on the orange filth and tell them they were NOT WANTED- ANYTIME-ANYWHERE near their homes. You see BB, psf want you to be subservient, demure, submissive and servile. They call it 'accomodating the Orange cultural traditions.' Its what you fucking do, when you're a fully 'paid up' member of HM Gov.UK.
So get this BB. These orange bastards don't want you to be equal. They want you gone!
Perhaps in your 'night at the opera' you all got lost in the music and did'nt hear the words.
Belfast bookworm I can believe you when you state that this is not qsf driven,it sounds like a catholic priest suggestion and really there,s not a bees wing of a difference between qsf and those who abuse kids,both organisations are facilitators to pervs.
ReplyDeleteTR, you're telling your granny how to suck eggs here.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that everything doesn't have to be - and is sometimes not, SF driven/led. This is one such instance. Now labelling it as such won't do CH residents any favours when they next come under attack as many people across the town could well take the attitude 'well they're on their own if they're with the shinners so I'm not turning up to back them'
Marty - you're actually not a million miles off the Mark. The church has been part of discussions but it's residents who've decided to play it out like this at this stage.
Ps TR; we don't do opera in Carrick Hill. We leave that to our betters from the Greater New Lodge & such places.
I,m hearing tonight that the poison dwarf Barraboy Mc Grory is at his work again, the wee rat has re instated charges against Marian Price and three others relating to a republican commemoration in Derry.he makes the orange junta look almost democratic in his haste to obtain a knighthood,,
ReplyDelete'and really there,s not a bees wing of a difference between qsf and those who abuse kids,both organisations are facilitators to pervs'
ReplyDeletecould this be a reference to the disHONOURABLE member for Louth and his dodgy kinky clan?
'poison dwarf Barraboy Mc Grory is at his work again'
He sure is the wee weazel. Those charges are reinstated. . Makes ya wonder what his dady was really up to when handling all those cases during the troubles. Maybe we're seeing a 'chip' off the old block in '3D'. So much for an opportunity to defuse the situation for all concerned after the government reshuffle.