Labour Must Wait

If, as seems likely the Labour Party enters a government with FG, they will not only be betraying those who voted for them in increasing numbers, but more to the point in the case of the LP leadership, turning their backs on what they once ‘claimed’ to be the whole purpose of their political careers, i.e. to bring about a leftwing realignment in Irish politics. For is that not what the Officials/Workers Party/Democratic Left/LP crowd, who now make up much of the Labour leadership have claimed throughout their political careers? – Mick Hall, Organised Rage

Election 2011 was a major victory for Fine Gael. Given the leadership problems it faced a matter of months back, the party has made a remarkable recovery. That a wooden one like Enda Kenny can in a matter of months be transformed into something lithe and nimble is symptomatic of the despair that the society has sank into. It is clutching at straw men.

Labour for the first time in its history is the second largest party in the state. The two party state has been subverted. It is unprecedented. Yet the first thing that Labour sets out to do is begin its reconstruction. It is too office-whipped to operate with a long term strategic vision. It balks at the thought of carving out a new role for itself in a brave new world, instead hankering after the old certainties.

De Valera’s old catch cry of ‘Labour Must Wait’ reworked would certainly be to the party’s advantage. Were it to opt to lead the opposition it would institutionalise a left-right cleavage in place of the old right-right hair line divide that has characterised the two party state since its inception. Labour does not have to operate as a condom for the blue shirts as they screw the economically vulnerable. By leading the opposition it could compel Fine Gael into forming a government with a splattering of independent TDs or Sinn Fein who would gladly steal the blue shirt from Fine Gael’s back for a slice of the power pie.

Were Labour to grow a pair it would stand poised to become the dominant partner in a coalition government after the next general election at which Fine Gael will almost certainly face an angry electorate. It would also deny Fianna Fail the fast track to comeback by ensuring it cannot posture as leading the opposition to Fine Gael austerity packages.

But short term myopia looks set to trump long term strategic vision. The lessons of the past will be ignored. As the Guardian journalists Wintour and Watt point out, in 1992 Labour took 19.9% of the vote which 5 years later atrophied to 10.4% at the 1997 election ‘after it propped up two different governments in the course of one parliament.’

And here they go again, ready to betray society rather than besiege a Blue shirt government.

Unite General Secretary Jimmy Kelly has outlined an eminently good case for Labour to do the honourable thing and become the official opposition in the 31st Dail.

We can now see the end of the old and outdated political divisions that dominated Irish politics since the 1930s. The political dividing line is no longer determined by Fianna Fáil. They have been totally rejected and must not be given the oxygen of being an unwanted official opposition. The dividing line is now between the Left and the Right ... If Fine Gael wants to form a government, they shouldn't expect the Left to be a crutch or a mudguard. Labour should hold its nerve.

Problem is Fine Gael have got the measure of Labour. They ooze the sentiment once expressed by the one time Fianna Fail Taoiseach Sean Lemass:

I gather ... that someone accused the Labour Party of going 'Red' ... May I straightaway dissociate myself from any such suggestion? The Labour Party are, and always have been, the most conservative element in our community. Far from the Labour Party going 'Red', they are not going anywhere ... The Labour Party are a nice, respectable, docile, harmless body of men - as harmless a body as ever graced any parliament.

Labour must wait but it won’t.


  1. labour-

    To trust a stick is to make you thick

    Sell-more gilmore would give up all his sticky easter lilly's for just 4 years in goverment

    Sinn Fein will be the cure

  2. michaelhenry,
    How come Sinn Fein were unable to provide a cure in the North?
    They are actively supporting cuts in the North, while supposedly challenging them in the South, an all Ireland party with two seperate agendas what is all that about?

  3. Dont rule out FF bouncing back at the next election. People I spoke to here were protest voting to teach FF a sharp lesson. They held one seat here too in the 'tsunami' they suffered.
    SF under Adams ego will likely be exposed rather than 'shine' in the Dail. FF's Martin has already said SF are anyones dog for a bone, so he knows what he's talking about already.
    It should be remembered the people were not so much angry at the crash as they were at the realisation their houses were no longer worth half a million euro. FF will regroup and if they organise in the North it will just expose Adams as having put people through 30yrs of madness for nothing.

  4. Fionnuala-

    It is about representing all the people as best as they can- you don't want Sinn Fein to be like the stoops and oppose the budget
    at stormont and keep their single seat on the executive

    I agree with most of what you say
    but to get from A to Z - a lot of other letters have to be climbed over.

    I believed in the war process and some of those decision's during that time were not pretty either

  5. michaelhenry,
    I have idea if you live in West Belfast or else where.
    If you lived in the West you would see first hand what skipping the letter p (from principle and promises) has brought about.
    Socio and economic deprivation is on the increase. Most of our districts are havens of an increasing drink and drug culture.
    Few if any of the poor ever benefited from the spoils of war or dividends of peace.
    People actually state that they felt safer walking about during the war.
    Few Sinn Fein representatives would actually know what was happening to people at the lower end of the scale, few of them live in impoverished areas and those who do live a considerably lot better than the rest of us.

  6. In the dialectic that followed a recent article in The Guardian newspaper,it ran roughly along the following lines, with one contributor commenting;

    "The gombeen financial Eurocrats of the ECB and IMF thought they had pulled off a major coup when they tied the Irish to this particular pernicious bail out agreement. What they didn't factor in was the readiness of those 1.8 million taxpayers to up sticks and take their skills to other more fertile pastures. 1.8 million will soon become 1.7 million and then 1.6 million and so on. The terms of the bailout were unrealistic to many observers before the bleedin' ink was dry. Just wait until the real wealth creators leave the equation and there is nobody left to pay the taxes to pay the gnomes of Zurich. The ECB may be guilty of financial ethnic cleansing."

    The Irish are left with essentially two choices, ethnic cleansing by mass emigration or revolution !

    The article created further discussion along the lines, that the eternal brown-nosing by the Anglo-Irish establishment, earned them description. nux, asinus, Hibernes verbere opus habent, as part of their own survival, administering imperialist rape of their own people. Ireland is now ready with a new government, to resume its place in history as a depressed economy continuing in that legacy from fascist blue shirt father to son.The Irish political establishment in the form of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and their always reliable lapdog, careerist Labour, bought for a couple of Euros, are serving their Euro-masters well, like they served their predecessors, in their compliant scum state, mentored by Britain.

    As Europe is returning to 1929 and "Economic Consequences of the Peace" pre world war two, with the whiff of revolution, corporate fascism is rearing its ugly head again in Ireland again with Fine Gael and their side kicks the pre-cursors.The agreement of the IMF, with the old Government who caused the problem in the first instance, with unilateral guarantees to the bankster bondholders and the election of a new Government, closing the stable-door afterwards, rather than the election which should have been held, before the conniving political and economic treasonous deal was done, perpetrated by a Cowen government, enslaving the Irish people, making sure the banksters palmed their losses off on the Irish State and ordinary people.

    The current EU/IMF LOAN, with high interest rates means that Ireland with debts in the region of 200 billlion euro probably 400 billion ultimately, repaying it at current interest rates, means that the IMF/EU would make billions of profit from Ireland's misfortune, charging higher rates of interest than the IMF/EU get it originally for. It is well understood by anyone with more than one braincell in Ireland, that this is all going to fall apart. That is why the looting is still ongoing on a huge scale. Presently a bunch of useless sheep are simply numbed observers. For the moment the public service administrators are still getting their high salaries. The cuts are not actually applicable to those at the top of Irish society but the staff on lower pay will take the hit, along with proposed 90,000 state job losses and ever-more brutal austerity for at least a couple of decades, while public money is fed into insolvent banks.

  7. The physical result is a mountain of houses that no one wants and house price that are unsustainable

    The developers of greed have NAMA set up to prop them up and they are already preparing to buy back their original investments at rock bottom discounts. The bankster bondholders have been bailed out. The rot in the Irish soul as a result of surviving centuries of Imperialism in cunning slavery mode, has resulted in many Irish being fully aware and passively supportive of the rottenness, which permeates the ruling classes in Ireland.

    They even admire the dishonesty, the graft, the money laundering, the drug money with all the manifestations of greed which, in the has brought about Ireland's downfall once again.Its to late now to see the consequences of their stupidity. People get the government they deserve and all governments in Ireland are essentially puppets of the ruling classes inevitably with the tacit acquiescence of the people.God help the Irish people if they deserve the corporate fascist government of Fine Gael.They have made their bed, now they should lie on it, is the general call but what of its hungry youth, emigrate or rebel are the only choices.

    This debt wasn't created through financing the country, it was created by bankers. It is private debt which a traitorous government forced on ordinary Irish people, it is odious debt. 1.8 million tax payers cannot pay hundreds of billions of debt? they simply can't, the dogs on the street know it, everyone in Ireland knows it, Europe knows it, they are trying to buy the euro time and it simply won't work. The regime being imposed on Ireland is utterly unrealistic. A depressed and deeply indebted economy with just 1.8 million people at work cannot underwrite private banking liabilities of €200bn or 135% of GDP.

    The whole present day capitalist set up, stinks to high heaven and the Irish poor and the vulnerable are going to suffer, as the IMF dictates social policies directly and indirectly, that favour the continuation of their warped system, which will continue to protect the privileges of the few at the top, at the expense of the majority at the bottom. It won't be long more before Ireland awakens to see its youth in revolution. Irish politicians promising what they clearly cannot deliver for a couple of decades, with the economy out of their control, will give Ireland plenty of time, to sort out the island's utterly broken dysfunctional political system.

  8. I'm not too sure I agree with your analysis on Labour being left wing,
    Look to the pre-politics occupation of their members, architects, teachers, accountants, theres not many of them living on 186 euro per week, with the notable exception of Eric Byrne they're all trendy lefties, Bertie was more socialist than Gilmore.
    Watch too as, if reports are to be believed, Gilmore get McDevitt appointed to the Seanad, instantly mocking the lauded FF strategy of northern development, the only cure for them will be PBP as SF are equally champagne socialist outside of Belfast.

  9. Menace

    in a piece a few nights ago I made the point that what passes for left here would look right in most other countries. They simply looked closer to the left on the list I had to pick from.

    I would have voted PBP even though their SWP character would give me cause for apprehension. But they were not here. Same as Higgins' lot.

  10. Padraig Reidy in 28 Feb Guardian opined: 'But while Irish people might enjoy the revolutionary rhetoric of the hard left, chiming as it does with our own mythology of beating the British empire, very few of ULA's voters are really that keen on seizing the means of production and setting up a dictatorship of the proletariat.' Full article: 'After Fianna Fail'

  11. Thanks, so we're agreed, the PD's are back for the long haul.

  12. Labour could have put a FG minority government under an oppositional hammer by refusing to go into coalition. But it seems the attractions of being in government was irresistible.

    Over the next 4 years Labour will be jointly responsible for cutting public services and spending thus inflicting immense hardship on the poorest.

    SF will huff and puff but it will not bring the house down.


  14. Michaelhenry,

    'To trust a stick is to make you thick.'

    Good point considering what they did - they promised to unite Ireland but they called a ceasefire in exchange for a partitionist arrangement, decommissioned, supported Stormont, urged people to inform on republicans and abandoned political prisoners.

    How could we trust the Sticks after they did all that?

  15. Alec

    just about sums matters up concisely.

  16. I've no problem with the sticks, they are what they are but when they infiltrate parties and go sneakily about their agenda, that is dishonest and dishonourable !. The following for me sums about where we are at and I believe we need to form a broad front to empower a Gene Sharpe type revolution in Ireland.

    Butt-Monkey Ireland Ethnically Cleansed Again with Corporate Financial Terrorism

    The B-Eurocrats of the European Union believe they have pulled off a coup by tying Ireland to a bailout agreement that makes them billions in profit.They haven't however calculated with the tradition of emigration in Ireland since its last holocaust, when the British were last ethnically cleansing the Irish. On that occasion Ireland lost more than 6 million of its population, on this occasion of the 1.8 million taxpaying workers, they are already emigrating at the rate of a thousand a week and it is becoming a tsunami of ethnically cleansing Ireland again.
    The 1.8 million will soon become 1.7 million and then 1.6 million until Ireland is cleared of the healthy Irish or they stand and rebel. The terms of the bailout are totally unrealistic and the lifeblood of Ireland, the real wealth creators will all leave or fight except a few remaining eejits left, to slavishly try and pay taxes to the values of hundreds of billions pay to the gnomes of Zurich and the City of London. The EU is guilty of financial terrorism on Ireland and ethnic cleansing.
    William Hughes described the last Ethnic Cleansing in Ireland very well in a Millennium Perspective;
    " With respect to Ireland, ethnic cleansing has been the essence of British rule dating from the Anglo-Norman invasion of 1169. One of its earliest racist laws, enacted in 1367, was the "Statute of Kilkenny." It prohibited intermarriage between the British and (Gaelic) Irish under penalty of death. To the British, the Irish were subhuman.
    If one thinks of Irish history as a play, crafted in London's Whitehall by its bureaucrats, at the direction of powerful wirepullers, where the actors (read individuals, political parties, military, police, etc.) are given certain roles, but the end result is already known by the wirepullers, then the tragic drama of Ireland under British rule can be understood.
    Since British outrages against the Irish are so many, space requirements permit me to cite only a few of the more egregious ones.


  17. The Great Terrors
    In 1520, when Henry VIII broke with Rome, it added religion to the bias against the Catholic Irish. Under Henry's daughter, the murderous Queen Elizabeth I (1533-1603), the killing fields of Ireland ran red with the blood of innocent victims. It is estimated 1.5 million Irish peasants were starved or "put to the sword" and much of their lands seized by English predators, while she reigned.
    By the time the zealot Oliver Cromwell arrived on the scene, the Irish were ripe for more carnage. "It has pleased God to bless our endeavors," he wrote of the mass slaughter in 1649, by his Puritan troops of 3,552 Irish inhabitants of the seaport town of Drogheda, just north of Dublin. He pompously continued, "I am persuaded that this is a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches." This Drogheda massacre is one of the leading examples of the insidious British policy of ethnic cleansing in Ireland. Another is Cromwell's sacking of Wexford and the killing of 2,000 of its citizens.
    The infamous "Cromwellian Settlements" followed his conquest of Ireland. Millions of acres of land (41 percent of Antrim, 26 percent of Down, 34 percent of Armagh and 38 percent of Monaghan) were allocated to English Protestant settlers. The landowners of Irish birth were either killed, banished or forced out to Connaught in the west of Ireland, where it was hoped "they would starve to death." A Cromwell biographer labeled this massive confiscation of Irish lands, "by far the most wholesale effort to impose on Ireland the Protestant faith and English ascendancy." The British policy of colonizing Ireland with Protestants still has repercussions which are felt today on the streets of Belfast.
    From 1649 to 1652, one-third of the population of Ireland was destroyed. Petty, an English historian says, "660,000 Irish people were killed." Twenty thousand Irish boys and girls also were sold into slavery to the West Indies. The Irish peasant farmers that survived were forced to pay rent to their usurpers. Once prosperous home grown industries were also destroyed because they "competed with British factories."
    The memory of the holocausts under Elizabeth I and Cromwell have been forever seared into the psyche of the Irish race. Cromwell's evil idea that Irish Catholics were "barbarous wretches" has, too, unfortunately, passed into the British mindset.[15] Parliament reacted to Cromwell's crime against humanity in Ireland by passing an infamous Resolution that legitimized ethnic cleansing. It stated, "The House doth approve the execution done at Drogheda, as an act both of justice to them and mercy to others who may be warned by it."
    After the shaky British monarchy was restored in 1660, under Charles II, the vicious propaganda against Irish Catholics continued unabated. Many of the "vilest pamphlets" hyping the threat of a supposed "Popish Plot" against the Crown were printed in Holland.
    When James II, Charles' brother, succeeded him as King of England and Ireland in 1685, the hopes of Irish Catholics rose. His defeat, however, by the forces of William of Orange, at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, on July 12, brought renewed disaster. More confiscations of Irish lands followed and the adoption into law of the notorious "Penal Laws" in the late 1690s. Their net effect was to hold that, "The law does not presume any such person to exist as an Irish Roman Catholic."
    As time passed, there were periodic, but failed, rebellions in Ireland. In 1845, with nationalist aspirations at their lowest ebb, the moans of the starving were heard. The potato crop was blighted and famine stalked the land.


  18. The Irish Genocide
    Author Thomas Gallagher sets the scene for this unspeakable tragedy in his moving testament to the Irish dead, Paddy's Lament: "A famine unprecedented in the history of the world, a chapter in human misery to harrow the human heart was about to start, and even little children could see its quick, sure approach in the nakedly fearful eyes and faces of their parents."
    By the mid-19th century, Ireland was a country of eight million, mostly peasants. As a result of years of exploitation, they survived as tenant farmers and were never far from economic disaster. They were forced to exist on a single crop: the potato. A disease turned the potato into a foul slime. When the Irish masses turned to the British government for relief, they received the back of London's hand.
    Meanwhile, "Food, from 30 to 50 shiploads per day, was removed at gunpoint (from Ireland) by 12,000 British constables, reinforced by 200,000 British soldiers, warships, excise vessels, and coast guards... Britain seized from Ireland's producers tens of millions of head of livestock, tens of millions of tons of flour, grains, meat, poultry and dairy products-enough to sustain 18-million persons."
    Gallagher estimates two million died from the famine. Writer Chris Fogarty, however, places the numbers "murdered at approximately 5.16 million... making it the Irish holocaust." Distinguished legal scholars, like Professors Charles Rice of Notre Dame U. and Francis A. Boyle, U. of Illinois, believe that under International Law, that the British pursued a barbarous policy of mass starvation in Ireland from 1845-50, and that such conduct constituted "genocide."
    The Wrong of Partition
    An armed uprising occurred in Ireland, on Easter Monday, 1916. It was quickly crushed and its leaders executed by firing squads on the orders of General John "Mad Dog" Maxwell. In the next general election, in 1918, Sinn Fein, the Republican Party, won 75 percent of the seats allocated to Ireland in the London Parliament. In defiance of Great Britain, its representatives set up an independent parliament known as Dail Eireann (Assembly of Ireland). London replied with massive violence, spearheaded by the "Black and Tans," fascist storm troopers.
    Two years of war ensued with the Irish Republican Army, (IRA) fighting the British to a stalemate. In 1921, a truce was declared. During negotiations for an Anglo-Irish Treaty, British Prime Minister, David Lloyd George, issued an ultimatum to the Irish delegation: Sign a draft treaty or face immediate and "terrible war." The signing led to a bitter civil war and the partition of Ireland, with the six northeastern counties becoming the bogus state of "Northern Ireland."
    After the civil war ended, Eamon De Valera became Prime Minister of the "Irish Free State," which consisted of the twenty-six counties in the South. On July 1, 1937, a Constitution was adopted by his government rejecting partition and any oath of allegiance to the British Crown.


  19. Six County Police State

    Since the late 60s, British rule in the North of Ireland has been marked by events, like "Bloody Sunday,"[26] the "Dublin-Monaghan Bombings,"and the death of the "Ten Hunger Strikers." It has employed political assassinations, a shoot-to-kill policy, raiding of private homes, plastic bullets, the repressive Diplock Court system, tear gas, surveillance, torture and deportation in order to suppress the Irish.
    As resistance by the IRA to the occupation intensified, so did renewed oppression.[30] Actions, like the torching of Catholic churches, and the murders of attorneys Patrick Finucane and Rosemary Nelson, have underscored its policy of terror. Although British officials regularly deny any responsibility for Loyalist (read Protestant, Unionist or Orange Order) terrorism, strong evidence suggest the contrary.
    Thanks to American activists, Ex-British Army Captain, Fred Holroyd, (MI 6) revealed to a C-Span audience details of Britain's "dirty tricks" in the Six Counties. British tactics included murders, bombings, framing of innocent victims, black propaganda and kidnappings. Holroyd said the Special Air Service (SAS), undercover military personnel that are licensed to kill, are controlled directly by the office of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet, and that the SAS, often referred to as "Margaret Thatcher's Praetorian Guard," ran spies into the 26 Counties.
    British wrongdoing didn't stop at the Irish shores. It also unsuccessfully opposed the MacBride Principles, U.S. sourced anti-discrimination legislation, which promoted equal employment opportunities for Catholics in the sectarian dominated Six Counties.


  20. Conclusion
    A "Peace Process," in Ireland, was boldly initiated, in 1993, by Sinn Fein's Gerry Adams and the Social Democratic Labor Party's John Hume. It eventually evolved into the 1998 "Good Friday Agreement." Unionist prevarications, however, and the reluctance of Blair's Labor government to trump the Orange card, despite having a 179-vote majority in the Parliament, have brought it to the brink of failure. Keep in mind that on December 19,1993, the London Sunday Times reported a secret Anglo-Irish deal to "smash the IRA, if a peace deal is rejected."
    Some now wonder, if the "Peace Process" is yet another example of Perfidious Albion's dirty tricks. They ask, "Will British ethnic cleansing return once again to Ireland and with a fury that would shame even Cromwell?" Only the wirepullers at Whitehall know for sure the answer to that troubling question."
    While the debate on whether Whitehall returns with ethnic cleansing to Ireland again continues, there can be no debate about the fact that the European Union, has already using financial terrorism to protect its Euro, sacrificed Ireland on the altar of European ethnic cleansing. Superstate financial terrorism is a crime against the Irish people and Ireland, every bit as much, as the British crimes of de-populating Ireland of more than six million of its people.
    The only solution in this quagmire, is an Irish velvet revolution, like Egypt or Tunisia to prevent it and to topple the corrupt, self-serving, brown-nosing, Anglo-Irish gombeen establishment, that have always managed and enabled the rape and ethnic cleansing of Ireland. The political reform being bandied about, is a futile cosmetic elastoplast effort at distraction, that will not stem the haemorrhage of Ireland's life blood.Again Ireland is at the crossroads of revolution or once again engaging in a surrender process of finally losing its national integrity and the remainder of its Irish people, unless of course the UNESCO World Heritage Centre make them a protected species, with the help of UN forces!
    Ireland is a relatively small island, with the remaining part of its population not already wiped out by the British, scattered to the extent of 80 million Irish diasporadoes, all over the planet, while imperialist financial terrorism has depopulated and divided its island. It needs enlightened, empowering help to guide the velvet revolution necessary, in a pro-active direction, otherwise it will continue to sink in the clutches of corporate fascist forces, beyond recovery, never the less it first must make its stand !

  21. Amen AM-

    Labour is now in coalition with
    nothing is fine a gael
    the devil is that detail but it took some lucifer's to vote in that
    cut coalition

    BrianClark nuj-

    You were just on about the sas

    8 of those silly buggers were caught by the libyan people
    The sas criminals were helping Gaddafi- put them in court or against the wall

    The brits threten that they will sent in the black watch
    no response from the libyan people
    yet as they are still laughing at this threat

  22. brianclarkeNUJ
    great read. When the Queen comes here watch how many wee free stater English fart suckers run out to greet her. Watch also the media hype that scowls at any disapproval, nomatter how tempered and constructively put. The GFA has the media and 'political' system well oiled in this game.

    It didn't take long before there was a Royal/crown return. No fan of the RC church as people on here know, but hell will freeze over before the Pope visits 'ulster'.

    If the Dissidents pulled off a miracle/spectacular and plunged the place back into mayhem the dirty tricks would be back with a vengeance. SF kiddies who think its trendywendy to be 'involved' would vanish like snow in the sunshine.

    mackers i noted yer comment about the workers party, do you get the feeling your debating with someone AFTER their labotomy, or like hanibal lecter has fried part of his own brain and fed it to him??

  23. Mickeyboy wrote:good point considering what they did.they promised to unite Ireland,but the called a ceasefire in exchange for a partitionist arrangement decomissioned,supported Stormont,urged people to inform on republicans and abandoned political prisioners,how could we trust the sticks after they did all that. FFS Mickeyboy when I read that I thought I was still in Amsterdam ,a cara read your own post and tell me who the fuck your talking about ,because that statement fits the psf like a glove. We should all remember Hazel Stewart who is rotting in a british jail for killing an ruc man lets organise a white line picket in support of her .

  24. Marty-

    AM wrote that statement you are on about

    Where have all the hero's gone
    [ into Sinn Fein ]

    You must be hard up Marty to support that black widow of the r.u.c

    liverpool just scored

  25. Michaelhenry,

    first time you have ever brought me good news. Now it i 2-0!

  26. AM-

    There is a first time for most things in life

    Looks like liverpool are playing the defence game at the moment

  27. Mackers, Albert said, 'all the goals were off side'
    Now he is off side, sitting humiliated in the local pub.

  28. Nuala,

    wish I was joining him to commiserate. Could go a pint today. He is not very generous to the better team on the day!

  29. Mackers,
    Albert would never concede Liverpool was the better team.
    He would rather just get pissed and slag off the Liverpools supporters in the bar.