Robert Emmet 1916 Society Lisnaskea  ✏ So, its official now, thirty years of armed struggle, deaths, jail time and hunger strikes were for ‘peace’.


Repeated by Sean Lynch in a recent YouTube video recording. 

But better still, the pacification process - sorry, sorry “peace process” - was an ‘honourable, strategic compromise’….and ‘we didn’t get Anything we wanted.. (read: we got nothing) !! His words. But hold on, hold on, there’s more. We got nothing but it ‘brought us to the next level’, according to Sean. Now there’s an interesting strategically political analysis that the great, historical, revolutionary thinkers would surely be kicking themselves that they never thought of. But all is not lost, there is hope, according to this narrative. Indeed ‘hope for future generation’s’, that’s a big one.

Now, lets re-cap, this is complex. We got nothing but it brought us to the next level. So far so good. The next bit is key: we are at some other level and we got nothing, however, we Did get ‘sufficient guarantees. ’ Aha, now we are getting places. Sufficient guarantees of what, Sean, we might be forgiven for asking? Well, he developed that point. According to Sean we got sufficient guarantees of equality. Right, ok, interesting. And, power sharing – right, with anyone in particular? And peace (again) and peace building (money?), and working together (who with?) He stated that these were the ‘key aspects’….what? Hold on, did we miss something there?

Something is not adding up here. We always thought that the thirty year armed struggle in the six counties was about ending British imperialism . . . in all of Ireland? And that the outcome was an end to partition and an Irish Socialist Republic? Surely, Sean, you know that? Sure, its there, in black and white in the IRA constitution, in the green book; which no doubt you read or were, at the very least, briefed on? And from the time of Wolfe Tone until 1998 that has always been the case. Except when the pro-Treatyites sold out in 1922, the Stickies in the ‘60’s. But then that’s different, isn’t it?

Instead, he says, SF got ‘sufficient guarantees’… British ones. Equality? But there is no equality Sean. Poverty, homelessness, health care, food bank growth, welfare, are all worse than in the 1960’s Civil Rights era. The distribution of wealth is increasingly in the favour of the powerful and wealthy. Ask any worker, local small business or small to medium farmer. Do we have equality in policing ? Ask the families of those slaughtered by British forces and their agents. Do we have equality in democracy or politics? Ask the 50% of the electorate who see no point in voting. How would we? We are ruled by a wealthy British ruling elite that cares less about the people of the six counties and gives them the crumbs from the master's table. You should know that Sean, you were in their ‘puppet parliament’ up at the big house on the hill. Just blaming the Tories, Sean, doesn’t cut the mustard at all.

As for power sharing Sean, a simple question, how many years was the house on the hill not working and why? Odd you didn’t mention that as an obstacle to peace? Some ‘working together process’ that eh? A great example of the ‘key aspects’, including ‘peace’ and the next level of ‘peace building’ that would inspire hope for generations to come. Surely a great legacy to be proud of and very ‘beneficial to Irish Society’.

And then you spring a surprise on us Sean. The Tories . . . .aah the poor auld Tories get blamed for everything. But, lo and behold, the treacherous Tories were an obstacle to peace, according to Sean. Surely that cannot be right. What about the ‘sufficient guarantees’ you mentioned earlier as justification for ending the war and getting into bed, no, getting into negotiations with the treacherous British? Did Sinn Fein give the Tories a by ball that they didn’t have to play the ‘peace game’? Was this the ‘honourable strategic compromise’ part of it. Or were they playing the real game? Then the ‘pesky Unionists’ had to get in on the anti-peace game too. Their gripe was they couldn’t handle constitutional change or worse ‘a referendum (must be the all-Ireland one), and it coming closer’. Aren’t those Unionists the head bangers, they are pro-union and they are against a referendum on Irish Unity . . . and it only around the corner? Incredulous, how ungrateful can you be?

You said there’s an ‘..allowance for a referendum on Irish Unity..’ in the GFA ? Who is allowing this referendum Sean? What is the path there? What are the parameters, when or how is that referendum set in motion, after now 30 years? Maybe you could deal with that in your next video?

Surprisingly, the biggest offenders of all against the ‘process of peace’ and ‘.. resistant to change..’ are those devilish, dissidents who have no support…they are the boyos. If they have no support, how would they be any real threat to peace or change or anything? Thatcher used to say the IRA had no support either. The British, American, EU and Dublin governments used to say similar nasty things about the then Republican Movement from the ‘70’s to the ‘90’s…..1998 to be precise. Its odd that, that you can be a vile terrorist one day and the next a lovable political saint. And its funny that a few years ago….thirty or so….the IRA and Sinn Fein were clearly dissenters (read dissidents) from British rule and Dublin. But back to ‘todays dissidents’….sure they have ‘no support’…and are ‘resistant to change’ and yet they are working within their communities for real transformative change in all of the island of Ireland? But sure, they got a wee mention at least. The damn thing about them dissidents is that, they keep shouting The Emperor Has No Clothes!!!

And some of them dissident bucks are not a bit late either. They sort of know the craic, they’ve seen it all before. They know stuff and they are devils for pointing out the obvious, and often, the not so obvious. Things like how British imperialism, and other imperialisms, have colonised and subjugated (killed) people all over the world, and Ireland, for things like oil, minerals, cheap manufacturing and even to control new markets for their products. All in the name of world order, democracy and peace, you understand. Some of them dissidents even know about the causes of poverty, such as inequality and exploitation. They know about low wages, zero hour contracts, causes of homelessness, a deliberately destroyed health service, cost of education, food banks growth, climate destruction and so on. The ‘cute hoors’ know about bringing the working class together to struggle to build an Ireland where workers, the poor and working poor, are in control of their lives and have an on-going, day to day, democratic input into how the country would governed by the people, for the people. Then they (Dissidents) lay the blame, for the increasingly desparate state of people’s lives, at the door of a governing system that is only 250 years old, namely, capitalism. You know, the exploitative system that fills the coffers of the powerful and wealthy, at the expense of the poor and working poor. But that’s ‘old hat’ Sean, sure you would have studied all that stuff in jail.

However, in spite of the destructive Tories, nonsensical Unionists and the devilish dissidents, Sinn Fein has ‘overcome most challenges’, he says. They might well have temporarily deflected some challenges for now but what are the solid achievements to show, after thirty years of war and another thirty years full of the promises of peace and prosperity? We await the list. Anyway, Sean says that, the GFA will bring constitutional change, but no definition of what that constitutional change will be. Even after 60 years of struggle.

Just flashed into our minds there: what sort of constitutional change does Sinn Fein actually call for publicly? What sort of “New Ireland” is Sinn Fein envisioning? Hardly one that secures the wealth and power of the ruling class or corporate Ireland that Pearse Doherty was talking about? Or would it be the Ireland clearly outlined in the IRA constitution or indeed the 1916 Proclamation? Will the lives of the 99% of the population, the poor and working poor, be transformed in this “New Ireland”? Incidentally, Sean says ‘partition was bad for us’ !! A bit of an under-statement that. However, it will not only be partition that will be bad for us if Pearse Doherty’s version of the New Corporate Ireland unfolds.

The turning point, it appears, for the war to end was the ‘ceasefire and the GFA’. A ceasefire ‘which brought all parties to the table’ according to Seans version of events. But the ceasefire ‘wasn’t in isolation’. This is getting complicated again. Apparently, we are told, there were years of behind the scenes and secret preparations to end the war. Nothing much new in this revelation as all kinds of writers and historians have been talking and writing about ‘back channels’ for years. We were just wondering would the conditioning for this New Ireland have started as far back as 1972, when Willie Whitelaw met the Provisional IRA leaders of the day, including one Gerry Adams, in Cheyne Walk in England. Hardly, nah, too far-fetched that one. Sadly, though, we don’t have the records of All of the secret meetings and back channels from 1972 to the present. But who knows, what will eventually fall out of the sky.

In any event, Sean says, the ‘leadership realised that no side was going to win’. Wouldn’t have taken a genius to figure that out. The volunteers at the coal face could clearly see that as far back as 1976. From the IRA perspective the war was sporadic and had a very high volunteer attrition rate through jails and executions. The boat loads of weapons didn’t exactly transform the war from an IRA position either. Wonder was it supposed to? But, the Hunger Strikes did create a new political playing field. And Adams and company exploited it to the full. And we now know where that went and is going, as sure as day follows night.

All of this meant, Sean states, that the ‘only road out of conflict was a negotiated settlement’. A fairly normal human way to try to resolve most conflicts. The only road, we seriously doubt that? And then the question arises, what exactly were/are the terms and conditions of this, negotiated settlement? What exactly were the leadership promised to call a ceasefire in the first place? With Blair, Clinton and the Dublin government controlling the show we can see fairly clearly the way the ‘compromise(s) and ‘framework’, ensured where the eventual settlement was certainly Not going. A very big compromise indeed. Ah yes, there is a framework alright, to get to an ‘agreed’, ‘shared’ or ‘United Ireland’ – as long as the ruling status quo is not demolished. Not what volunteers died and went to jail for. Bobby Sands, among many others, was clear on the sort of a 32 county Republic he was fighting for.

Then the interesting question of ‘who is vital to peace building’ was asked by the interviewer. This prompted the response of a ‘reconciliation between opponents’ – which ones exactly? He went on to say it was necessary to be ‘building relations across Ireland’ - for the New Ireland, whatever that will be. You also have to ‘understand where other people are coming from’, ‘even if you don’t agree with them’ he says. Now we are sucking diesel. Mandela was even quoted, ‘you build peace not only with your friends but also with your opponents’. And does that include the devilish dissidents, anti-imperialists and Socialist Republicans Sean? The nonsensical unionists and treacherous Brits will certainly be included, no problem there. But we were just asking for a friend.

He says that, ‘all sorts of people joined the IRA’ and they saw it as a ‘liberation struggle’. Sounds a bit radical and Revolutionary - that’s dangerous sort of language. Of course, a liberation struggle is an anti-imperialist, proletarian, class struggle, that ends capitalism, to be replaced with Socialism. And we certainly haven’t heard this type of language from SF in many a long year but maybe you could enlighten us. We may well have missed it.

Another important ‘key point’ was ‘negotiating (with the brits) at the right time’ for ‘a peaceful, democratic way forward’ because of ‘guarantees that would deliver a United Ireland’. Now what could that mean we wonder? This is certainly the inside craic because we never heard of such definitive guarantees and we doubt if anyone else has. Are the unionists aware of these so-called guarantees for a United Ireland? Somebody better wire them off. And on the right time to negotiate - thirty years later, what’s the hold-up Sean? Though, in fairness you did say that thirty years later ‘the process is still developing’ and has ‘a way to go’. Quite, Sean, quite, we get that bit.

Then up comes the Brexit bombshell. It ‘speeded the whole process up’ Sean says. We can only assume he means it jumpstarted the earlier mentioned ‘framework’ or ‘allowed referendum’ for a “United Ireland”. In fact, the Brexit disaster has only theoretically and on paper moved the customs border for trade. It hasn’t exactly advanced a removal of the real political border. Brexit was useful for the Shinners to say that, wink, wink, nod, nod, the border is away. Stay with us voters we are getting there. And for Unionists the Brexit phantom sea border was a rallying point for ‘not an inch’ vote for us. The old faithful election sectarian head count tactic.

Not forgetting, of course, that Brexit is a row between the Western capitalists, with the Yanks taking advantage too. So, we seriously doubt that Brexit, no matter about phantom borders, will be of any material benefit to the working class and small farmers of Ireland. And looking for assistance from Europe to move the SF strategic compromise forward, is a race to the bottom for the Irish people. The EU, the same one that has lumbered generations of Irish people with the banks gambling debts, already has an economic strangle hold on the 26 counties. So, the plan is to ask them to impoverish the working class of the whole island, in the fabled New Ireland? A great strategic compromise that would be, for sure.

All in all, the Inside Craic on the processing of peace really tells us nothing that we didn’t know already. From our perspective anyone who wouldn’t want peace and real transformative change to the material conditions of, the lives and well-being, of the people of Ireland, is badly out of touch with reality. Despite what Sean thinks. But statements like ‘honourable strategic compromises’, ‘sufficient guarantees of equality’, some kind of unspecified ‘frameworks’ and ‘negotiating at the right time’ portrayed as ‘key points’ in achieving the thirty-two county Socialist Republic and smashing capitalism and their imperialisms in Ireland, is really hot air Sean. And is the worst kind of politically dangerous hot air at that, for the 99%, that is the working class in Ireland.

Just to finish Sean, we thought it extremely remiss of you not to mention the fact that Volunteer Seamus McElwain was executed in cold blood a few yards from where you were injured beside Roslea. You described it as ‘a shooting incident’? It was an IRA operation Sean. Did you forget about that and Seamus? Were you told not to say it? Or are you afraid it might be an embarrassment now? Maybe the hefty pension might be affected? Anyway, we will leave it at that for now.

The “Inside Craic” On The Peace Talks And GFA – According To Sean Lynch

Robert Emmet 1916 Society Lisnaskea  ✏ So, its official now, thirty years of armed struggle, deaths, jail time and hunger strikes were for ‘peace’.


Repeated by Sean Lynch in a recent YouTube video recording. 

But better still, the pacification process - sorry, sorry “peace process” - was an ‘honourable, strategic compromise’….and ‘we didn’t get Anything we wanted.. (read: we got nothing) !! His words. But hold on, hold on, there’s more. We got nothing but it ‘brought us to the next level’, according to Sean. Now there’s an interesting strategically political analysis that the great, historical, revolutionary thinkers would surely be kicking themselves that they never thought of. But all is not lost, there is hope, according to this narrative. Indeed ‘hope for future generation’s’, that’s a big one.

Now, lets re-cap, this is complex. We got nothing but it brought us to the next level. So far so good. The next bit is key: we are at some other level and we got nothing, however, we Did get ‘sufficient guarantees. ’ Aha, now we are getting places. Sufficient guarantees of what, Sean, we might be forgiven for asking? Well, he developed that point. According to Sean we got sufficient guarantees of equality. Right, ok, interesting. And, power sharing – right, with anyone in particular? And peace (again) and peace building (money?), and working together (who with?) He stated that these were the ‘key aspects’….what? Hold on, did we miss something there?

Something is not adding up here. We always thought that the thirty year armed struggle in the six counties was about ending British imperialism . . . in all of Ireland? And that the outcome was an end to partition and an Irish Socialist Republic? Surely, Sean, you know that? Sure, its there, in black and white in the IRA constitution, in the green book; which no doubt you read or were, at the very least, briefed on? And from the time of Wolfe Tone until 1998 that has always been the case. Except when the pro-Treatyites sold out in 1922, the Stickies in the ‘60’s. But then that’s different, isn’t it?

Instead, he says, SF got ‘sufficient guarantees’… British ones. Equality? But there is no equality Sean. Poverty, homelessness, health care, food bank growth, welfare, are all worse than in the 1960’s Civil Rights era. The distribution of wealth is increasingly in the favour of the powerful and wealthy. Ask any worker, local small business or small to medium farmer. Do we have equality in policing ? Ask the families of those slaughtered by British forces and their agents. Do we have equality in democracy or politics? Ask the 50% of the electorate who see no point in voting. How would we? We are ruled by a wealthy British ruling elite that cares less about the people of the six counties and gives them the crumbs from the master's table. You should know that Sean, you were in their ‘puppet parliament’ up at the big house on the hill. Just blaming the Tories, Sean, doesn’t cut the mustard at all.

As for power sharing Sean, a simple question, how many years was the house on the hill not working and why? Odd you didn’t mention that as an obstacle to peace? Some ‘working together process’ that eh? A great example of the ‘key aspects’, including ‘peace’ and the next level of ‘peace building’ that would inspire hope for generations to come. Surely a great legacy to be proud of and very ‘beneficial to Irish Society’.

And then you spring a surprise on us Sean. The Tories . . . .aah the poor auld Tories get blamed for everything. But, lo and behold, the treacherous Tories were an obstacle to peace, according to Sean. Surely that cannot be right. What about the ‘sufficient guarantees’ you mentioned earlier as justification for ending the war and getting into bed, no, getting into negotiations with the treacherous British? Did Sinn Fein give the Tories a by ball that they didn’t have to play the ‘peace game’? Was this the ‘honourable strategic compromise’ part of it. Or were they playing the real game? Then the ‘pesky Unionists’ had to get in on the anti-peace game too. Their gripe was they couldn’t handle constitutional change or worse ‘a referendum (must be the all-Ireland one), and it coming closer’. Aren’t those Unionists the head bangers, they are pro-union and they are against a referendum on Irish Unity . . . and it only around the corner? Incredulous, how ungrateful can you be?

You said there’s an ‘..allowance for a referendum on Irish Unity..’ in the GFA ? Who is allowing this referendum Sean? What is the path there? What are the parameters, when or how is that referendum set in motion, after now 30 years? Maybe you could deal with that in your next video?

Surprisingly, the biggest offenders of all against the ‘process of peace’ and ‘.. resistant to change..’ are those devilish, dissidents who have no support…they are the boyos. If they have no support, how would they be any real threat to peace or change or anything? Thatcher used to say the IRA had no support either. The British, American, EU and Dublin governments used to say similar nasty things about the then Republican Movement from the ‘70’s to the ‘90’s…..1998 to be precise. Its odd that, that you can be a vile terrorist one day and the next a lovable political saint. And its funny that a few years ago….thirty or so….the IRA and Sinn Fein were clearly dissenters (read dissidents) from British rule and Dublin. But back to ‘todays dissidents’….sure they have ‘no support’…and are ‘resistant to change’ and yet they are working within their communities for real transformative change in all of the island of Ireland? But sure, they got a wee mention at least. The damn thing about them dissidents is that, they keep shouting The Emperor Has No Clothes!!!

And some of them dissident bucks are not a bit late either. They sort of know the craic, they’ve seen it all before. They know stuff and they are devils for pointing out the obvious, and often, the not so obvious. Things like how British imperialism, and other imperialisms, have colonised and subjugated (killed) people all over the world, and Ireland, for things like oil, minerals, cheap manufacturing and even to control new markets for their products. All in the name of world order, democracy and peace, you understand. Some of them dissidents even know about the causes of poverty, such as inequality and exploitation. They know about low wages, zero hour contracts, causes of homelessness, a deliberately destroyed health service, cost of education, food banks growth, climate destruction and so on. The ‘cute hoors’ know about bringing the working class together to struggle to build an Ireland where workers, the poor and working poor, are in control of their lives and have an on-going, day to day, democratic input into how the country would governed by the people, for the people. Then they (Dissidents) lay the blame, for the increasingly desparate state of people’s lives, at the door of a governing system that is only 250 years old, namely, capitalism. You know, the exploitative system that fills the coffers of the powerful and wealthy, at the expense of the poor and working poor. But that’s ‘old hat’ Sean, sure you would have studied all that stuff in jail.

However, in spite of the destructive Tories, nonsensical Unionists and the devilish dissidents, Sinn Fein has ‘overcome most challenges’, he says. They might well have temporarily deflected some challenges for now but what are the solid achievements to show, after thirty years of war and another thirty years full of the promises of peace and prosperity? We await the list. Anyway, Sean says that, the GFA will bring constitutional change, but no definition of what that constitutional change will be. Even after 60 years of struggle.

Just flashed into our minds there: what sort of constitutional change does Sinn Fein actually call for publicly? What sort of “New Ireland” is Sinn Fein envisioning? Hardly one that secures the wealth and power of the ruling class or corporate Ireland that Pearse Doherty was talking about? Or would it be the Ireland clearly outlined in the IRA constitution or indeed the 1916 Proclamation? Will the lives of the 99% of the population, the poor and working poor, be transformed in this “New Ireland”? Incidentally, Sean says ‘partition was bad for us’ !! A bit of an under-statement that. However, it will not only be partition that will be bad for us if Pearse Doherty’s version of the New Corporate Ireland unfolds.

The turning point, it appears, for the war to end was the ‘ceasefire and the GFA’. A ceasefire ‘which brought all parties to the table’ according to Seans version of events. But the ceasefire ‘wasn’t in isolation’. This is getting complicated again. Apparently, we are told, there were years of behind the scenes and secret preparations to end the war. Nothing much new in this revelation as all kinds of writers and historians have been talking and writing about ‘back channels’ for years. We were just wondering would the conditioning for this New Ireland have started as far back as 1972, when Willie Whitelaw met the Provisional IRA leaders of the day, including one Gerry Adams, in Cheyne Walk in England. Hardly, nah, too far-fetched that one. Sadly, though, we don’t have the records of All of the secret meetings and back channels from 1972 to the present. But who knows, what will eventually fall out of the sky.

In any event, Sean says, the ‘leadership realised that no side was going to win’. Wouldn’t have taken a genius to figure that out. The volunteers at the coal face could clearly see that as far back as 1976. From the IRA perspective the war was sporadic and had a very high volunteer attrition rate through jails and executions. The boat loads of weapons didn’t exactly transform the war from an IRA position either. Wonder was it supposed to? But, the Hunger Strikes did create a new political playing field. And Adams and company exploited it to the full. And we now know where that went and is going, as sure as day follows night.

All of this meant, Sean states, that the ‘only road out of conflict was a negotiated settlement’. A fairly normal human way to try to resolve most conflicts. The only road, we seriously doubt that? And then the question arises, what exactly were/are the terms and conditions of this, negotiated settlement? What exactly were the leadership promised to call a ceasefire in the first place? With Blair, Clinton and the Dublin government controlling the show we can see fairly clearly the way the ‘compromise(s) and ‘framework’, ensured where the eventual settlement was certainly Not going. A very big compromise indeed. Ah yes, there is a framework alright, to get to an ‘agreed’, ‘shared’ or ‘United Ireland’ – as long as the ruling status quo is not demolished. Not what volunteers died and went to jail for. Bobby Sands, among many others, was clear on the sort of a 32 county Republic he was fighting for.

Then the interesting question of ‘who is vital to peace building’ was asked by the interviewer. This prompted the response of a ‘reconciliation between opponents’ – which ones exactly? He went on to say it was necessary to be ‘building relations across Ireland’ - for the New Ireland, whatever that will be. You also have to ‘understand where other people are coming from’, ‘even if you don’t agree with them’ he says. Now we are sucking diesel. Mandela was even quoted, ‘you build peace not only with your friends but also with your opponents’. And does that include the devilish dissidents, anti-imperialists and Socialist Republicans Sean? The nonsensical unionists and treacherous Brits will certainly be included, no problem there. But we were just asking for a friend.

He says that, ‘all sorts of people joined the IRA’ and they saw it as a ‘liberation struggle’. Sounds a bit radical and Revolutionary - that’s dangerous sort of language. Of course, a liberation struggle is an anti-imperialist, proletarian, class struggle, that ends capitalism, to be replaced with Socialism. And we certainly haven’t heard this type of language from SF in many a long year but maybe you could enlighten us. We may well have missed it.

Another important ‘key point’ was ‘negotiating (with the brits) at the right time’ for ‘a peaceful, democratic way forward’ because of ‘guarantees that would deliver a United Ireland’. Now what could that mean we wonder? This is certainly the inside craic because we never heard of such definitive guarantees and we doubt if anyone else has. Are the unionists aware of these so-called guarantees for a United Ireland? Somebody better wire them off. And on the right time to negotiate - thirty years later, what’s the hold-up Sean? Though, in fairness you did say that thirty years later ‘the process is still developing’ and has ‘a way to go’. Quite, Sean, quite, we get that bit.

Then up comes the Brexit bombshell. It ‘speeded the whole process up’ Sean says. We can only assume he means it jumpstarted the earlier mentioned ‘framework’ or ‘allowed referendum’ for a “United Ireland”. In fact, the Brexit disaster has only theoretically and on paper moved the customs border for trade. It hasn’t exactly advanced a removal of the real political border. Brexit was useful for the Shinners to say that, wink, wink, nod, nod, the border is away. Stay with us voters we are getting there. And for Unionists the Brexit phantom sea border was a rallying point for ‘not an inch’ vote for us. The old faithful election sectarian head count tactic.

Not forgetting, of course, that Brexit is a row between the Western capitalists, with the Yanks taking advantage too. So, we seriously doubt that Brexit, no matter about phantom borders, will be of any material benefit to the working class and small farmers of Ireland. And looking for assistance from Europe to move the SF strategic compromise forward, is a race to the bottom for the Irish people. The EU, the same one that has lumbered generations of Irish people with the banks gambling debts, already has an economic strangle hold on the 26 counties. So, the plan is to ask them to impoverish the working class of the whole island, in the fabled New Ireland? A great strategic compromise that would be, for sure.

All in all, the Inside Craic on the processing of peace really tells us nothing that we didn’t know already. From our perspective anyone who wouldn’t want peace and real transformative change to the material conditions of, the lives and well-being, of the people of Ireland, is badly out of touch with reality. Despite what Sean thinks. But statements like ‘honourable strategic compromises’, ‘sufficient guarantees of equality’, some kind of unspecified ‘frameworks’ and ‘negotiating at the right time’ portrayed as ‘key points’ in achieving the thirty-two county Socialist Republic and smashing capitalism and their imperialisms in Ireland, is really hot air Sean. And is the worst kind of politically dangerous hot air at that, for the 99%, that is the working class in Ireland.

Just to finish Sean, we thought it extremely remiss of you not to mention the fact that Volunteer Seamus McElwain was executed in cold blood a few yards from where you were injured beside Roslea. You described it as ‘a shooting incident’? It was an IRA operation Sean. Did you forget about that and Seamus? Were you told not to say it? Or are you afraid it might be an embarrassment now? Maybe the hefty pension might be affected? Anyway, we will leave it at that for now.

27 comments:

  1. I always felt Lynch had a high opinion of himself even if others didn't. Out of interest I wonder how many volunteers managed to survive an SAS ambush in which their comrades didn't? Especially when they knew what it normally entails I.e summary murder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I always got on with him, found him and his brother very personable.

      His injuries alone suggest he was most fortunate to escape with his life. Was there not a volunteer who a few years back gave an interview to the Irish News about surviving Loughalll?

      I think some also survived the Coalisland operation in 92, and were even charged. Same with Strabane 85 if memory is reliable.

      Delete
    2. Cam Comments

      As for Clonoe and survivors, I talked to a few lads who were at the Chapel on that night and who got away, one hid in his fathers grave, graveyard was across the road from the Chapel, and later found and arrested...what he told me about that night was scary...the other who was driving one of the getaway cars reversed for several hundred yards up the road towards Coalisland when the shooting started and he picked up two volunteers who made it further up the road and were able to open up back at the Brits and made their escape out of the back of the lorry....the car he was driving was like a Swiss cheese by the time he got away....some of those volunteers ended up a year or so later in the blocks for other reasons.....altogether 16 volunteers got away...it could have been very bloody to say the least...Loughgall would have have paled to insignificance!

      Delete
    3. MickO,

      "Especially when they knew what it normally entails I.e summary murder."

      Big Boys Rules. It's like whinging about a coupe de grace, if the show was on the other foot would a Provo have shied away from shooting an unarmed squaddie on the ground?

      Delete
  2. Steve R, not 'whinging' just merely making a point. Btw, most volunteers accepted that summary murder by crown force murder squads was par for the course if they were ambushed I.e most volunteers knew well the antics of the enemy. And as Tom Barry once said, 'we had to go down into the abyss after them'. P.s It's the prerogative of the volunteers' relatives etc if they themselves chose to challenge the State in the event of the death of their loved ones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fair enough Mick, if you go armed to the teeth and with a huge bomb and have form for shooting cops when you attack bases you could have probably expected a less than motherly welcome.

      Delete
  3. Related to the conversation above, language becomes contentious when describing these events. If I write about a member of an armed organisation killing/attacking another member of an armed organisation, paramilitary or military, I use kill/killed. If it's an armed organisation killing a civilian intentionally, I will use murder.

    Then there is the massive grey area... Were Sinn Fein members "murdered" or "killed"? If the crown forces made a mistake and killed a civilian, what then? If a paramilitary group conducted an operation that had a high risk of civilian deaths, then what word to use, then?

    Pardon the pun, but it's a minefield.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We never viewed SF as separate from the Provisionals Brandon.

      Delete
    2. SF were never viewed as separate from the Provisionals nor were relatives of either organisations or in fact any nationalist at all. All viewed as the pan-nationalist front if my memory serves me correctly.

      Even unionist protestants or anyone else playing Irish traditional music were looked upon as legitimate targets at one time.

      Strange how you can tar an entire community with the same brush. Almost sounds sectarian.

      Delete
    3. The whole thing was sectarian of various hues Simon, not sure your point? Remember when pointing fingers 3 are pointing back at you.

      Delete
    4. Simon Comments

      My point Steve is Sinn Féin weren't the IRA. The vast majority of Catholics weren't the IRA. Just because loyalists perceived that everyone was as sectarian as them and all Catholics were legitimate targets doesn't make it so.

      We've gone over this so many times, analysed the statistics and positions/viewpoints of all sides and you still don't get it.

      Maybe the fact that you still don't get it proves my point. I'm sure many evangelical Christians actually believe dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark in the same way Loyalists believe that all parties to the conflict were as sectarian as the rest. Despite the evidence. I also believe many evangelicals know it's hogwash and are playing to the gallery much in the same fashion as loyalists preach their warped perspectives. """"

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  4. In regards Loughgall, there were the 2 scouts in the area that survived simply down to the fact they werent actually outside the barracks, armed and in combat gear. And Liam Ryan survived as he again was in the general area but not outside the barracks. Liam was in touch with Paddy Kelly, via CB radio, moments before the attack.

    Surely at this point people like Sean Lynch (while i admire his military engagements against the British) while still involved with SF are just acting as duplicitous as anything ive come to witness not to mention the relentless historical revisionism at play. I feel this can be found throughout the Shinners. Always leaves me with the burning question....were the Provos ever actual revolutionary Republicans or armed nationalists?

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  5. Regarding Loughall,

    I wonder if the Crown forces opening up on the two absolutely innocent brothers on their way to work forced them to cease trying to wipe out the rest of the unit? Unsure of the chronology,.



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    1. Pretty sure they drove in to the rear and by very unfortunate coincidence they had boiler suits on ( they were painters by trade I think) similar to the main attack squad and the SAS assumed they were part of it and opened up.

      The British didn't set up VCP's for obvious reasons before the attack and they were unfortunately caught up in it.

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    2. Steve - that sounds like it was just a mishap resulting from an unfortunate confluence of circumstances; that the killers lying about it afterwards was just happenstance.

      To me it was the murder of someone regarded as a witness, much like the shooting of William Hanna (a loyalist) in June 78 at Ballysillan when the SAS ambushed an IRA unit.

      Clive Fairweather was the investigating officer on that and he told me himself that he walked through the kill zone early the following morning and examined one of the bodies on which he found powder burns. He challenged the shooters by stating they gave the IRA volunteer the coup d'grace.
      My exchange with CW is on TPQ.

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    3. Fair enough Anthony I can see why you'd think that way. Without us being there it's hard to know the truth but I wouldn't be surprised if either version was true, the coup d'grace not being the sole undertaking of British Forces of course.

      If you rock up with a 400 pounds device whilst armed with speed 6's, FNL, G3's and Spas 12's and form for killing the cops locking up remote stations at night you can hardly expect to be treated to tea and crumpets. Powder burns can also be applied post mortem. Either way it's clear; none were going to be allowed to escape alive.

      A horrific night as all killing is.

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    4. I'd be very surprised if the accidental death theory was true.

      The coup de grâce was routinely administered by the IRA. The state defined it as murder and then proceeded to do the same.

      IRA volunteers have few grounds to complain when faced with death in the course of an armed guerrilla campaign. They understand that or should. But as Mick points out, there is no reason why their families have to accept the legality or justness of it.
      And who would have applied the powder burns post mortem and for what purpose?

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  6. When the SAS opened up on the Hughes brothers car, they completely lied afterwards about why they had opened fire on them. They stated that the car had zigged zagged wildly across the road - complete lie, it was parked neatly right next to the curb and there was no tyre marks on the road to indicate it had reversed or moved wildly anywhere.

    It was a member of the RUC that came to give emergency first aid to Oliver Hughes after being shot numerous times. The SAS members that shot him casually walked down the road to look at the devastation around the barracks and the van and to shoot at the already dead and dying PIRA volunteers. They then came back and a RUC inspector insisted they call an ambulance for him, which ultimately save his life.

    The solicitors coached the soldiers in their statements so as to protect them from any (whitewash) investigation that may possibly come up. They all used the same wordage and phrases, the usual tactics, despite the claim that all of Operation Judy was conducted within the rules of the yellow card, they protected the back end of the operation as only they knew how.

    There was others caught within the D shaped killing zone. A mother and daughter who lept from their car and a salesman from a brewery, by the looks of the photo ive seen, his vehicle was hit by SAS gunfire (car was facing the van and its back window was shot out, so SAS rounds!).

    One of the scouts in a recent anonymous interview stated that he knew something was badly wrong with the army helicopter coming in to land and went down the road to look but was faced by soldiers who ordered him to turn round. He said there was two scouts and Liam Ryan in the general area, but not involved in the attack so there was little justification for opening fire on them. The British may not have known where the rendezvous point was afterwards (unlike Clonoe in '92) but assuming if they had, they may have set up an ambush point there aswell.

    Another interesting point (for me at least) is how closely those who mounted the PIRA operation were obviously under surveillance as they carried out the build up approach work to the evening attack. At the safe house someone suspicious was supposed to have been spotted in a phone box and when the Toyota Hiace van was taken from the snooker hall premises, they already had the van under surveillance (this was even before the staff at the snooker place had reported it as being stolen).

    Sorry for waffling on....

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    1. Far from waffling on you have provided some riveting commentary. We appreciate you taking the time to post it here.

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    2. I was told Oliver Hughes was taken to the morgue I.e they thought he was dead as well and that's were it was discovered he had a pulse.......so not questioning the above inspector claim that first aid was administered at the scene ........but I do recall dozens upon dozens of RUC terrorist land rovers heading to Loughgall shortly after the ambush and yahooing in transit. Nothing unusual about that as RUC were known at that time for making light of volunteers' deaths.........what baffles me is how they thought that wouldn't provoke like for like from some of the people experiencing it, and when it did they shouldn't whinge either? Violence begets violence and all that.

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  7. "And who would have applied the powder burns post mortem and for what purpose?"

    Anger. The guys who did it would have been riddled given there was two GPMG's covering them in an an arc. Not hard to imagine a trooper going up to the bodies and losing off a round up close after they were clearly dead. The SAS come mainly from the Parachute Regiment and no doubt some lost friends in Warranpoint, so anger would be my bet.

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    1. I don't doubt that but we are talking June 78, 14 months before Narrow Water.

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    2. I thought we were talking about loughall?

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    3. In relation to powder burns I referred to the 1978 shooting of three IRA people and a loyalist guy at Ballysillan - and mentioned my exchange with Clive Fairweather in which he mentioned that event.

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    4. Ah, got you. Don't know the specifics but no reason to doubt him.

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  8. In any conflict, administering the coup de grace to any prostrate combatant is always a war crime.

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    1. Good luck charging anyone with that Barry.

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