As an ex-POW and a republican activist my whole life I can not allow this to continue without comment.
The war against the imperialist occupation of Ireland by British troops and their economic counterparts was justified and the correct thing to do. For many Volunteers of the IRA this was the honourable course to take. As under international law an occupied country has the right to try as best it can to achieve freedom and sovereignty. This includes the use of armed struggle.
The historical context for such action lays deep within the Irish psyche, when presented with discrimination, harassment and outright murder of one’s families, friends and comrades, when the law makers become the law breakers then there is no law. Hundreds of young and not so young men and women took up that challenge to serve their people and the cause of Irish independence. Reluctantly a generation of Irish people decided to become part of the Republican Movement. By far, most of these ordinary people were involved for the right reasons.
Of course, the longer the war went on the more the Movement was infiltrated by agents. The lowest of the low human beings. These few who secreted themselves into the heart of the Irish Republican Army were to become part of its demise. There is no doubt some of these agents were known and even promoted to higher ranks within the IRA. By whom and why?
At a very early stage the British intelligence services had established who they could manipulate at a high level within the IRA. There is no need to go into this to deeply at this stage - there are plenty of books referencing these individuals.
The war against the imperialist occupation of Ireland by British troops and their economic counterparts was justified and the correct thing to do. For many Volunteers of the IRA this was the honourable course to take. As under international law an occupied country has the right to try as best it can to achieve freedom and sovereignty. This includes the use of armed struggle.
The historical context for such action lays deep within the Irish psyche, when presented with discrimination, harassment and outright murder of one’s families, friends and comrades, when the law makers become the law breakers then there is no law. Hundreds of young and not so young men and women took up that challenge to serve their people and the cause of Irish independence. Reluctantly a generation of Irish people decided to become part of the Republican Movement. By far, most of these ordinary people were involved for the right reasons.
Of course, the longer the war went on the more the Movement was infiltrated by agents. The lowest of the low human beings. These few who secreted themselves into the heart of the Irish Republican Army were to become part of its demise. There is no doubt some of these agents were known and even promoted to higher ranks within the IRA. By whom and why?
At a very early stage the British intelligence services had established who they could manipulate at a high level within the IRA. There is no need to go into this to deeply at this stage - there are plenty of books referencing these individuals.
The narrative that the whole organisation was rotten is not correct. The hundreds of young men and women who give their lives so we might have the 32-county socialist republic were certainly not rats or agents. They were the cream of their communities and deeply embedded within those said communities.
Today we have ex comrades trying to distance themselves from these brave comrades. Why?
These are political opportunists who will exploit any situation to farther their personal careers,
This is evidenced by their attendance at the King of England’s crowning, the passing out parade of those employed to uphold British rule in Ireland to name but a few incidences. They call themselves the Good Friday generation of republicans. Firstly, they are not republicans. Fact, one cannot call oneself a republican and then endorse a king. Never mind an Irish republican.
To quote a revolutionary of the highest regard Bernadette Mc Aliskey “the litmus test for any political party was to boycott genocide Joe Biden in the USA”. This they could not do. Disgraceful and totally wrong. While children ate grass, they ate steak with their imperialist masters. When they couldn’t stand up for the poor Palestinian people under such circumstances, how can anyone involved hold their head up? Or expect them to pursue a 32-county socialist republic?
So they try to delegitimise our fallen friends, families and comrades. The very people who got them there in the first place. The thousands of years spent in prisons all over the world by Irish republicans now has to be criminalised, so they can cosy up to their masters. Well, this will not be permitted to happen while there are genuine republicans alive who will maintain their memories with dignity and pride.
The British manipulated this situation to murder what they call their own citizens. They allowed RUC members, ordinary working-class soldiers and civilians to be murdered by their agents. Their agents under the control of the British security services. The report has pointed to countless murders they could have prevented. They choose not to by protecting agents. They are the culprits in this situation and the law makers again become the law breakers. As for the minority of members of the Republican Movement who became British agents they are to be condemned as what they are - informers and the lowest of the low in betrayals of their fellow republicans.
But the majority of people who joined and helped the Republican Movement during the war were and are the salt of the earth, they give everything for that cause in which they one hundred percent believed. These were ordinary people placed in an extortionary situation not of their making. I would pay homage to these brave people and many families destroyed and broken as a result of the war. We will not stand idlily by and allow people to condemn the courageous volunteers of the Irish Republican Army. We salute them and all those who played any part in the struggle for freedom independence and the 32-county socialist republic. That struggle continues in a different way today and for this past 20 years.
In conclusion, the presence of agents within the ranks of the IRA does not condemn the men and women of the IRA who were prepared to lay down their lives, not for a corrupted and infiltrated leadership but for the people of Ireland. For this we will forever be in your debt and we will never condemn you or your sacrifice and commitment to the cause of Irish freedom, and the establishment of the 32-county socialist republic.
East Tyrone Remembers.
⏩Frankie Quinn is the National Organiser for the 1916 Societies.
Today we have ex comrades trying to distance themselves from these brave comrades. Why?
These are political opportunists who will exploit any situation to farther their personal careers,
This is evidenced by their attendance at the King of England’s crowning, the passing out parade of those employed to uphold British rule in Ireland to name but a few incidences. They call themselves the Good Friday generation of republicans. Firstly, they are not republicans. Fact, one cannot call oneself a republican and then endorse a king. Never mind an Irish republican.
To quote a revolutionary of the highest regard Bernadette Mc Aliskey “the litmus test for any political party was to boycott genocide Joe Biden in the USA”. This they could not do. Disgraceful and totally wrong. While children ate grass, they ate steak with their imperialist masters. When they couldn’t stand up for the poor Palestinian people under such circumstances, how can anyone involved hold their head up? Or expect them to pursue a 32-county socialist republic?
So they try to delegitimise our fallen friends, families and comrades. The very people who got them there in the first place. The thousands of years spent in prisons all over the world by Irish republicans now has to be criminalised, so they can cosy up to their masters. Well, this will not be permitted to happen while there are genuine republicans alive who will maintain their memories with dignity and pride.
The British manipulated this situation to murder what they call their own citizens. They allowed RUC members, ordinary working-class soldiers and civilians to be murdered by their agents. Their agents under the control of the British security services. The report has pointed to countless murders they could have prevented. They choose not to by protecting agents. They are the culprits in this situation and the law makers again become the law breakers. As for the minority of members of the Republican Movement who became British agents they are to be condemned as what they are - informers and the lowest of the low in betrayals of their fellow republicans.
But the majority of people who joined and helped the Republican Movement during the war were and are the salt of the earth, they give everything for that cause in which they one hundred percent believed. These were ordinary people placed in an extortionary situation not of their making. I would pay homage to these brave people and many families destroyed and broken as a result of the war. We will not stand idlily by and allow people to condemn the courageous volunteers of the Irish Republican Army. We salute them and all those who played any part in the struggle for freedom independence and the 32-county socialist republic. That struggle continues in a different way today and for this past 20 years.
In conclusion, the presence of agents within the ranks of the IRA does not condemn the men and women of the IRA who were prepared to lay down their lives, not for a corrupted and infiltrated leadership but for the people of Ireland. For this we will forever be in your debt and we will never condemn you or your sacrifice and commitment to the cause of Irish freedom, and the establishment of the 32-county socialist republic.
East Tyrone Remembers.
⏩Frankie Quinn is the National Organiser for the 1916 Societies.
And the rest of us remember Kingsmill, Enniskillen,Teebane and the Shankill.
ReplyDeletebut not Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy?
DeleteUltimately all conflict, whether between states, communities, or individuals is grounded upon an imposition of will.
DeleteHistorically the imperialist invader has imposed his cultural, religious, linguistic, economic, and political will upon the natives. Why would anyone be surprised, why the shock and horror, when the natives fight back?
Mistreat a dog then you have an angry dog. On the other hand, treat the animal firmly but fairly and you have a loyal companion.
In the end of the day Steve, one just has to figure a better way to handle those pesky natives.
Thought I'd already been on record as calling them atrocities and war crimes though?
DeleteYou surely have - which made it odd that you only focused on a particular type in this thread.
DeleteAh. Was a right cranky bastard this morning but yes, shouldn't have spouted off shite without qualification. Think I was taken aback by the seemingly shinnerbot review of IRA past actions, but he was in the trenches so his view is perfectly valid. Does lead on to the question of an amnesty though. Lets be honest, it's the only way anyone is getting closure.
DeleteDoes seem that British Amnesty is Father Time, and the Shinner lipservice protestations is tantamount to acceptance.
It'd be interesting to see who disappeared overnight if the UK Gov called for an Amnesty out of the blue.
I think any fair minded observer would note that Loyalists recruited its members almost exclusively from the ranks of security force informers whereas the security forces recruited from the ranks of republicans. A handful of well placed agents could have an overall controlling influence over the Republican Movement. And what was the effectiveness between regular informers and agents of influence?
ReplyDeleteI think IRA strategy, innovation and shortcomings was probably the greatest educator of Brit/US military and intelligence strategies in low-scale conflicts -though, looking at how they operate around the world, the IRAs students do not seem to have learnt a lot.
At what point does the Republican movement accept responsibility for its actions and not fob off uncomfortable actions as secretly being British spooks at play? I'm not after an answer, because the only answer is an amnesty.
DeleteSteve
DeleteThey have and even fessed up to those who became known as 'The Disappeared'.
"As under international law an occupied country has the right to try as best it can to achieve freedom and sovereignty. This includes the use of armed struggle." Can Hugh cite any UN Resolution or international treaty or other international statutory instrument to back this claim up in relation to the PIRA campaign?
ReplyDeleteBarry
DeleteIt is in the preamble of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Sean Bresnahan comments
DeleteThe UN Charter acknowledges the fundamental right of peoples / nations to national freedom and sovereignty. It acknowledges too, with this, the right of occupied peoples to exercise force to oust those preventing them exercising that right. Siné a Bharra.
A very flexible interpretation of the UN Charter since most of the island of Ireland has enjoyed national freedom and sovereignty for the last century.
ReplyDeleteBarry --a very coy way of dismissing the significance of the UDHR. Had you bothered to check the preamble, you would have learned that the use of violence as a last resort is inherent to the individual and not just nations or sovereign territories. I quote: "Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,"
DeleteIn the context of Ireland, the right to use force as a last resort is not dependent upon everyone uniting --only that those who use force must be able to legitimately defend the use as a last resort. To my knowledge the Brits never sought formal declaration from the UN to decide it the IRA claim of last resort was justified under the UDHR. The Brits relied upon their own say so about the IRA which had no persuasive influence over anyone who believed the IRA was justified out of last resort.
Barry
DeleteThe UN Charter is intended to be read purposively and anywhere it sets out types of victims is only for example and not to be read as a conclusive list.
Barry...
Deletesince most of the island of Ireland has enjoyed national freedom and sovereignty for the last century.
And what about the O6C...? What about the freedom and sovereignty of the Northern six counties?
As for the 26 Southern counties, their sovereignty lies in the heart of Europe....Not in heart of Ireland...
Quite right Barry.
ReplyDeleteDon't know what all the fuss has been about.
PIRA sought their mandate from the First Dail of 1919 not from actually existing electoral mandates North or South. There was always an alternative to armed struggle.
ReplyDeleteBarry
DeleteAccording to you that is not true, I quote: "most of the island of Ireland has enjoyed national freedom and sovereignty for the last century"
Frankie, you will not want to hear or agree with this but the status of NI was overwhelmingly endorsed by two parallel referenda in 1998 in both NI and ROI. There is a clear pathway to a UI set out in the GFA. The Republic 's membership of the EU has enabled it to come out of the shadow of its former overlord.
ReplyDeleteAll true Barry. Your historical account of the last 25 years is near enough the mark. You conveniently and mischievously discount the previous 700 though.
DeleteSean Bresnahan comments
ReplyDeleteBarry’s suggestion that ‘most of the island of Ireland has enjoyed national freedom and sovereignty’ is of course erroneous. This becomes immediately obvious just by visiting the word ‘national’ and its definition, which of course is defined as concerned with or applicable to an ENTIRE nation or country. Most of a country cannot enjoy NATIONAL freedom and sovereignty. Either the entire country enjoys it or it simply does not, with no in between. Perhaps it can be argued that most of the island of Ireland enjoyed freedom and sovereignty but, either way, this would not be national freedom and sovereignty, which is the only matter to hand.
Óglaigh na hÉireann and its Volunteers had every right to use force in an effort to expel those who occupied, and still occupy, Ireland. It’s no different to La Résistance rejecting the imposition of Germany and Italy over France during the Second World War, and responding to it militarily. There was always an ‘alternative’ there too, which was to oppose their occupation only by political means.
And well we might note here, too, that though only a part of Ireland remains directly occupied this no less legitimises the IRA campaign than it does that of the French Resistance PRIOR to November 1942, before which only part of France was directly occupied. No, of course, we would never suggest such a nonsense, just as it is a nonsense to suggest that because only part of Ireland has remained subject to occupation that this somehow makes occupation acceptable fare.
And spare us any retort that speaks of how the political process gave rise to and has accepted the situation for what it is, as though this somehow makes the denial of national freedom and sovereignty acceptable. For, let us remember, the reign of Hitler and the Nazi ‘Third Reich’ came into being through the contemporary processes of its time. This no more gave what followed political legitimacy than does that Partition came about and has been maintained through political processes of any respective time.
"For, let us remember, the reign of Hitler and the Nazi ‘Third Reich’ came into being through the contemporary processes of its time"
DeleteThreats and intimidation of anyone who dared question the National Socialists followed by their immediate outlawing once in power, further followed by the dismantling of the Laws of the State to ensure a dictatorship was a "contemporary process of the time"? Come again?
Only been one movement in Ireland that didn't and doesn't tolerate criticism from any quarter I'd say.
Sean Bresnahan comments
DeleteI doubt the countless victims of British colonialism all across the world, including the many still made victim by this evil in our midst in the now, would find a comparison with Hitler and the Second World War ‘ridiculous’. The apologists for this hideous imperial warmongering power structure, however, are another matter. When it comes to rapacious racist imperialism and its uphold via murder, the British are without equal, regardless their sycophantic delusions.
What I’ve already said remains the case — the Irish people have a right to national freedom and sovereignty as a whole and in their entirety, regardless of whatever processes those who hold power over them to prevent them exercising that right might concoct to justify their denials of said right. It was ever thus and remains ever thus. This is built into the very fabric of international law and standard, although it be regularly flouted.
Well if it wasn't for this " hideous imperial warmongering power structure" we'd all be wearing jackboots and speaking German with all the Jews dead among all other untermenschen....but at least Dev would have got your beloved Republic I suppose.
DeleteWould you have been happy with that?
By the same logic Scotland and Wales should be denied independence simply because it is part of one land mass. And when you make your ridiculous comparisons with Hitler and World War Two, Sean do the names Sean Russell and Sean South mean anything to you?
ReplyDeleteBarry
ReplyDeleteThat is infantile reasoning -so what say you about all the countries making up the European and Asian continents? They are after all a single land mass.
Your argument was that most, but not all of the island of Ireland enjoyed 100 years of freedom -and post GFA the use of force was no longer justified -the logical conclusion one can take from that is you are dancing around acknowledging that the use of force the 6 counties pre-GFA was justified.
The point I was making was that if the argument for "freedom and sovereignty of the Irish people as a while" rests purely on territorial grounds as opposed to the electoral wishes of the actually existing people on the island then a similar territorial argument regarding Britain negates Scots and Welsh independence.
DeleteInteresting that you acknowledge oppression but not the use of force as last resort to gain ones freedom... very pro-imperialist view. You were initially quite specific about post GFA. How can you recognize part of Ireland was not free but they weren't justified in using force when the use of force is what brought about the GFA?
DeleteNeither Scotland or Wales were partitioned for the purpose of creating a gerrymandered electorate.
Barry,
ReplyDeleteYou have a very British attitude concerning Irish affairs....
Meaning....?
DeleteSince when did opposing the use of violence to pursue political objectives become 'British", Frankie? Most Irish people do and always have.
DeleteBarry, ....
DeleteIt's self explanatory.
The use of force pre GFA was never justified, Brian. Does that make it clearer?
ReplyDeleteSean, I am no defender of imperialism of any sort be it the British Empire of the past nor Russian imperialism of the present.
ReplyDeleteFrankie be careful or you will be reported to the headmaster for saying bad words.
ReplyDelete' Well if it wasn't for this " hideous imperial warmongering power structure" we'd all be wearing jackboots and speaking German with all the Jews dead among all other untermenschen....but at least Dev would have got your beloved Republic I suppose.......'
ReplyDeleteBritain wouldve done ok as it would've came to some sort of arrangement with the oul Nazis as they got on well with each other prior to the war lest we forget. The sham fighting such as the Battle of Britain etc was mere optics I.e everyone knew hitler's prize was always Russia so it could restore Germany as a power just like Britain was. I idea that plucky Britain repelled the firepower of Germany and prevented an invasion etc is fanciful and propaganda. Germany never had their eyes on Britain in fact Britain declared war on them.
Not sure what alternative universe you live in Mick but I hope you have a warm blanket around you and a nice warm cup of tea. Have a wee rest you'll feel better after.
DeleteBarry,
ReplyDeleteSince when did opposing the use of violence to pursue political objectives become 'British", Frankie?
I said you have a very British attitude concerning Irish affairs. I never mentioned violence. If you want to understand what the British presence still looks like today in the O6C then open the link and goto 57mins 10 seconds and listen to what Brendan Hughes says....
There is a clear pathway to a UI set out in the GFA.
And that depends on a British SOS deciding what is best for the Irish people not what the Irish people decide is best for the island....
The Republic 's membership of the EU has enabled it to come out of the shadow of its former overlord.
Its former overlord was the British and today overlords are unelected bureaucrats in Brussels what Connolly said in 1897 is still relevant today......Today Ireland is controlled by "the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she (EU) has planted in this country " from Europe...
" If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.
England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.
England would still rule you to your ruin, even while your lips offered hypocritical homage at the shrine of that Freedom whose cause you had betrayed.
Unlike you Barry I believe there is more than enough brain power on the Island to overcome any hurdle either the British or EU put up....
Frankie, this screed does not answer my question. The approach I take to contemporary political issues is defence of liberal representative democracy and it's principles and internationalist bodies like the UN and the EU. You constantly fail to elaborate what you mean by "British"and "Irish".
ReplyDeleteWhat does having a "British attitude towards Irish affairs" even mean, Frankie?
ReplyDeleteSteve R
ReplyDeleteI would report you to the headmaster if I was easily offended. As it is I am snuggled enough and happy to let you wallow in the propaganda, dressed up as history, that you have satisfied your wee self with.....it's hard to let go I know cratúr. Btw denial isn't a river in Africa.
Denial might be a river in your Africa though Mick. You seem to be a wee bit out of touch with reality. Hitler instigated Operation Sealion to invade Britain after she rightly rejected any fake peace proposals offered her.
ReplyDeleteLol there you go with the propaganda, sorry Brit history lessons again.
DeleteIf it's propaganda to be on the side opposing The Reich then yep, I'm guilty as charged. You appear to be skirting Wartime Germany Apologist speech MickO- what do you think the camps in Belsen et al were for exactly?
DeleteAnd Britain declared war on Germany after Hitler had invaded Poland.
ReplyDeleteSorry but I try to avoid the mentally weak as they tend to get upset.
DeleteTomás Ó Flatharta
ReplyDeleteLooking at Things from the Left
“Frogs’ legs and lobster Thermidor – or the ABC of republican strategy” – Fearghal Mac Bhloscaidh
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Fearghal Mac Bhloscaidh is one of the most interesting political writers in Ireland. The article below is a detailed analysis of Ireland’s peace process, which begins with a speech delivered by Bernadette McAliskey the year before the Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998. I remember it well. (*)
John Meehan
https://tomasoflatharta.com/2024/02/23/frogs-legs-and-lobster-thermidor-or-the-abc-of-republican-strategy-fearghal-mac-bhloscaidh/
Jim - TPQ ran that piece a while back.
Delete
ReplyDeleteThe Secret Army (full documentary)
"The Secret Army follows journalist Darragh MacIntyre as he attempts to unravel the mystery surrounding the making of an extraordinary documentary filmed inside the IRA in 1972 but which vanished for almost 50 years."
Challenging A False Narrative
ReplyDeleteAfter watching 'A Secret Army' the narrative that will be challenged is....Was Martin McGuinness turnedI by MI5/6 in 1972? The Spooks watched the complete footage before things disappeared for 50yrs.
And it clearly shows McGuiness handling a bomb and guns and nothing was done..
Frankie it certainly seems so. Question is what did they have over him?
DeleteStevie....
ReplyDelete"Question is what did they have over him?"
Think about it for 30 seconds....