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| Ukraine-Palestine Solidarity |
We, Ukrainian researchers, artists, political and labour activists, members of civil society stand in solidarity with the people of Palestine who for 75 years have been subjected and resisted Israeli military occupation, separation, settler colonial violence, ethnic cleansing, land dispossession and apartheid. We write this letter as people to people. The dominant discourse on the governmental level and even among solidarity groups that support the struggles of Ukrainians and Palestinians often creates separation. With this letter we reject these divisions, and affirm our solidarity with everyone who is oppressed and struggling for freedom.
As activists committed to freedom, human rights, democracy and social justice, and while fully acknowledging power differentials, we firmly condemn attacks on civilian populations – be they Israelis attacked by Hamas or Palestinians attacked by the Israeli occupation forces and armed settler gangs. Deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime. Yet this is no justification for the collective punishment of Palestinian people, identifying all residents of Gaza with Hamas and the indiscriminate use of the term “terrorism” applied to the whole Palestinian resistance. Nor is this a justification of continuation of the ongoing occupation. Echoing multiple UN resolutions, we know that there will be no lasting peace without justice for the Palestinian people.
On October 7 we witnessed Hamas’ violence against the civilians in Israel, an event that is now singled out by many to demonize and dehumanize Palestinian resistance altogether. Hamas, a reactionary Islamist organization, needs to be seen in a wider historical context and decades of Israel encroaching on Palestinian land, long before this organization came to exist in the late 1980s. During the Nakba (“catastrophe”) of 1948, more than 700,000 Palestinians were brutally displaced from their homes, with entire villages massacred and destroyed. Since its creation Israel has never stopped pursuing its colonial expansion. The Palestinians were forced to exile, fragmented and administered under different regimes. Some of them are Israeli citizens affected by structural discrimination and racism. Those living in the occupied West Bank are subjected to apartheid under decades of Israel’s military control. The people of the Gaza Strip have suffered from the blockade imposed by Israel since 2006, which restricted movement of people and goods, resulting in growing poverty and deprivation.
Since the 7th of October and at the time of writing the death toll in the Gaza Strip is more than 8,500 people. Women and children have made up more than 62 percent of the fatalities, while more than 21,048 people have been injured. In recent days, Israel has bombed schools, residential areas, Greek Orthodox Church and several hospitals. Israel has also cut all water, electricity, and fuel supply in the Gaza Strip. There is a severe shortage of food and medicine, causing a total collapse of a healthcare system.
Most of the Western and Israeli media justifies these deaths as mere collateral damage to fighting Hamas but is silent when it comes to Palestinian civilians targeted and killed in the Occupied West Bank. Since the beginning of 2023 alone, and before October 7, the death toll on the Palestinian side had already reached 227. Since the 7 of October, 121 Palestinian civilians have been killed in the occupied West Bank. More than 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners are currently detained in Israeli prisons. Lasting peace and justice are only possible with the end of the ongoing occupation. Palestinians have the right to self-determination and resistance against Israeli’s occupation, just like Ukrainians have the right to resist Russian invasion.
Our solidarity comes from a place of anger at the injustice, and a place of deep pain of knowing the devastating impacts of occupation, shelling of civil infrastructure, and humanitarian blockade from experiences in our homeland. Parts of Ukraine have been occupied since 2014, and the international community failed to stop Russian aggression then, ignoring the imperial and colonial nature of the armed violence, which consequently escalated on the 24th of February 2022. Civilians in Ukraine are shelled daily, in their homes, in hospitals, on bus stops, in queues for bread. As a result of the Russian occupation, thousands of people in Ukraine live without access to water, electricity or heating, and it is the most vulnerable groups that are mostly affected by the destruction of critical infrastructure. In the months of the siege and heavy bombardment of Mariupol there was no humanitarian corridor. Watching the Israeli targeting the civilian infrastructure in Gaza, the Israeli humanitarian blockade and occupation of land resonates especially painfully with us. From this place of pain of experience and solidarity, we call on our fellow Ukrainians globally and all the people to raise their voices in support of the Palestinian people and condemn the ongoing Israeli mass ethnic cleansing.
We reject the Ukrainian government statements that express unconditional support for Israel’s military actions, and we consider the calls to avoid civilian casualties by Ukraine’s MFA belated and insufficient. This position is a retreat from the support of Palestinian rights and condemnation of the Israeli occupation, which Ukraine has followed for decades, including voting in the UN. Aware of the pragmatic geopolitical reasoning behind Ukraine’s decision to echo Western allies, on whom we are dependent for our survival, we see the current support of Israel and dismissing Palestinian right to self-determination as contradictory to Ukraine’s own commitment to human rights and fight for our land and freedom. We as Ukrainians should stand in solidarity not with the oppressors, but with those who experience and resist the oppression.
We strongly object to equating of Western military aid to Ukraine and Israel by some politicians. Ukraine doesn’t occupy the territories of other people, instead, it fights against the Russian occupation, and therefore international assistance serves a just cause and the protection of international law. Israel has occupied and annexed Palestinian and Syrian territories, and Western aid to it confirms an unjust order and demonstrates double standards in relation to international law.
We oppose the new wave of Islamophobia, such as the brutal murder of a Palestinian American 6-year old and assault on his family in Illinois, USA, and the equating of any criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. At the same time, we also oppose holding all Jewish people all over the world accountable for the politics of the state of Israel and we condemn anti-Semitic violence, such as the mob attack on the airplane in Daghestan, Russia. We also reject the revival of the “war on terror” rhetoric used by the US and EU to justify war crimes and violations of international law that have undermined the international security system, caused countless deaths, and has been borrowed by other states, including Russia for the war in Chechnya and China for the Uyghur genocide. Now Israel is using it to carry out ethnic cleansing.
Call to ActionWe urge the implementation of the call to ceasefire, put forward by the UN General Assembly resolution.
As activists committed to freedom, human rights, democracy and social justice, and while fully acknowledging power differentials, we firmly condemn attacks on civilian populations – be they Israelis attacked by Hamas or Palestinians attacked by the Israeli occupation forces and armed settler gangs. Deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime. Yet this is no justification for the collective punishment of Palestinian people, identifying all residents of Gaza with Hamas and the indiscriminate use of the term “terrorism” applied to the whole Palestinian resistance. Nor is this a justification of continuation of the ongoing occupation. Echoing multiple UN resolutions, we know that there will be no lasting peace without justice for the Palestinian people.
On October 7 we witnessed Hamas’ violence against the civilians in Israel, an event that is now singled out by many to demonize and dehumanize Palestinian resistance altogether. Hamas, a reactionary Islamist organization, needs to be seen in a wider historical context and decades of Israel encroaching on Palestinian land, long before this organization came to exist in the late 1980s. During the Nakba (“catastrophe”) of 1948, more than 700,000 Palestinians were brutally displaced from their homes, with entire villages massacred and destroyed. Since its creation Israel has never stopped pursuing its colonial expansion. The Palestinians were forced to exile, fragmented and administered under different regimes. Some of them are Israeli citizens affected by structural discrimination and racism. Those living in the occupied West Bank are subjected to apartheid under decades of Israel’s military control. The people of the Gaza Strip have suffered from the blockade imposed by Israel since 2006, which restricted movement of people and goods, resulting in growing poverty and deprivation.
Since the 7th of October and at the time of writing the death toll in the Gaza Strip is more than 8,500 people. Women and children have made up more than 62 percent of the fatalities, while more than 21,048 people have been injured. In recent days, Israel has bombed schools, residential areas, Greek Orthodox Church and several hospitals. Israel has also cut all water, electricity, and fuel supply in the Gaza Strip. There is a severe shortage of food and medicine, causing a total collapse of a healthcare system.
Most of the Western and Israeli media justifies these deaths as mere collateral damage to fighting Hamas but is silent when it comes to Palestinian civilians targeted and killed in the Occupied West Bank. Since the beginning of 2023 alone, and before October 7, the death toll on the Palestinian side had already reached 227. Since the 7 of October, 121 Palestinian civilians have been killed in the occupied West Bank. More than 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners are currently detained in Israeli prisons. Lasting peace and justice are only possible with the end of the ongoing occupation. Palestinians have the right to self-determination and resistance against Israeli’s occupation, just like Ukrainians have the right to resist Russian invasion.
Our solidarity comes from a place of anger at the injustice, and a place of deep pain of knowing the devastating impacts of occupation, shelling of civil infrastructure, and humanitarian blockade from experiences in our homeland. Parts of Ukraine have been occupied since 2014, and the international community failed to stop Russian aggression then, ignoring the imperial and colonial nature of the armed violence, which consequently escalated on the 24th of February 2022. Civilians in Ukraine are shelled daily, in their homes, in hospitals, on bus stops, in queues for bread. As a result of the Russian occupation, thousands of people in Ukraine live without access to water, electricity or heating, and it is the most vulnerable groups that are mostly affected by the destruction of critical infrastructure. In the months of the siege and heavy bombardment of Mariupol there was no humanitarian corridor. Watching the Israeli targeting the civilian infrastructure in Gaza, the Israeli humanitarian blockade and occupation of land resonates especially painfully with us. From this place of pain of experience and solidarity, we call on our fellow Ukrainians globally and all the people to raise their voices in support of the Palestinian people and condemn the ongoing Israeli mass ethnic cleansing.
We reject the Ukrainian government statements that express unconditional support for Israel’s military actions, and we consider the calls to avoid civilian casualties by Ukraine’s MFA belated and insufficient. This position is a retreat from the support of Palestinian rights and condemnation of the Israeli occupation, which Ukraine has followed for decades, including voting in the UN. Aware of the pragmatic geopolitical reasoning behind Ukraine’s decision to echo Western allies, on whom we are dependent for our survival, we see the current support of Israel and dismissing Palestinian right to self-determination as contradictory to Ukraine’s own commitment to human rights and fight for our land and freedom. We as Ukrainians should stand in solidarity not with the oppressors, but with those who experience and resist the oppression.
We strongly object to equating of Western military aid to Ukraine and Israel by some politicians. Ukraine doesn’t occupy the territories of other people, instead, it fights against the Russian occupation, and therefore international assistance serves a just cause and the protection of international law. Israel has occupied and annexed Palestinian and Syrian territories, and Western aid to it confirms an unjust order and demonstrates double standards in relation to international law.
We oppose the new wave of Islamophobia, such as the brutal murder of a Palestinian American 6-year old and assault on his family in Illinois, USA, and the equating of any criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. At the same time, we also oppose holding all Jewish people all over the world accountable for the politics of the state of Israel and we condemn anti-Semitic violence, such as the mob attack on the airplane in Daghestan, Russia. We also reject the revival of the “war on terror” rhetoric used by the US and EU to justify war crimes and violations of international law that have undermined the international security system, caused countless deaths, and has been borrowed by other states, including Russia for the war in Chechnya and China for the Uyghur genocide. Now Israel is using it to carry out ethnic cleansing.
Call to ActionWe urge the implementation of the call to ceasefire, put forward by the UN General Assembly resolution.
We call on the Israeli government to immediately stop attacks on civilians, and provide humanitarian aid; we insist on an immediate and indefinite lifting of siege on Gaza and an urgent relief operation to restore civilian infrastructure. We also call on the Israeli government to put an end to the occupation and recognise the right of Palestinian displaced people to return to their lands.
We call on the Ukrainian government to condemn the use of state sanctioned terror and humanitarian blockade against the Gazan civilian population and reaffirm the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination. We also call on the Ukrainian government to condemn deliberate assaults on Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.
We call on the international media to stop pitting Palestinians and Ukrainians against each other, where hierarchies of suffering perpetuate racist rhetoric and dehumanize those under attack.
We have witnessed the world uniting in solidarity for the people of Ukraine and we call on everyone to do the same for the people of Palestine.
A list of first signatories is below :
Signatures (as of 2023/11/02)
1. Volodymyr Artiukh, researcher
2. Levon Azizian, human rights lawyer
3. Diana Azzuz, artist, musician
4. Taras Bilous, editor
5. Oksana Briukhovetska, artist, researcher, University of Michigan
6. Artem Chapeye, writer
7. Valentyn Dolhochub, researcher, soldier
8. Nataliya Gumenyuk, journalist
9. John-Paul Himka, professor emeritus, University of Alberta
10. Karina Al Khmuz, biomedical engineer programmer
11. Yuliia Kishchuk, researcher
12. Amina Ktefan, fashion influencer, digital creator
13. Svitlana Matviyenko, media scholar, SFU; Associate Director of Digital Democracies Institute
14. Maria Mayerchyk, scholar
15. Vitalii Pavliuk, writer, translator
16. Sashko Protyah, filmmaker, volunteer
17. Oleksiy Radynski, filmmaker
18. Mykola Ridnyi, artist and filmmaker
19. Daria Saburova, researcher, activist
20. Alexander Skyba, labour activist
To see the full list visit the Commons website.
The unity of the Ukrainians is indisputable but the Palestinian people and Hamas are not one and the same --while one can express wholehearted support for the Palestinians; but in real terms that is being hijacked as support for Islamism which is a global terrorist movement. Innocent Palestinian lives are nothing more than cannon-fodder to advance Islamic Fundamentalism -through its Hamas Gazacide belt.
ReplyDeleteI am disappointed with the Ukrainians call for a ceasefire without demanding the release of the hostages -pragmatically - there will be no ceasefire until Hamas release them --should we now call for a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine at the loss of its hostages taken into Russia?
The hostages should be released with or without a ceasefire. A ceasefire should take effect with or without hostage release.
DeleteThe Ukrainians would have been foolish as well as appearing exceptionally cruel to insist on hostages being released in return for a cessation of child murder. The best call for them to make is for both a ceasefire and hostage release, rather than that sordid bargain.
The people responsible for Gazacide are the Israelis, not Hamas. Hamas is responsible for its own degeneracy, not this one.
People will wonder how the Ukrainian government can give unconditional support to what the Israelis are doing and then complain about the Russians doing less to Ukraine.
The entire Israeli leadership should appear before the Hague for war crimes... but Hamas made a suicide belt out of the Gaza strip while they hide safely underground.
ReplyDeleteJust that the prefix to 'cides' are important distinctions to make. The law of proportionality would hold that Gaza is more a genocide belt than a suicide belt. The argument from the Starmer/Sunak lobby, the Western establishment and the wider Right that Hamas brought it on Gaza is never mirrored in an argument from them that Israel brought October 7 on itself.
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ReplyDeleteThe Islamist plan was to use Israeli disproportionate atrocities as part of the overall 7th October plan. From the get-go and before the Israelis devised their response I said the Islamist terrorists had effectively strapped a suicide belt around the entire Gaza Strip -or Gazacide Belt. Hamas said they wanted to inspire the whole Muslim world to rise up and wipe the Jews out. They were sacrificing the Gazan people -a Gazacide plan that would involve genocide. The Iranians are rightly concerned about Israelis abusive excesses but have now said they will not be drawn into Hamas plan.
Hamas are threatening Palestinians at gun point not to go to safe areas -even though those southern safe areas are are still being attacked by Israelis. Hamas use the people as human shields and Israelis will takeout 100+ innocent people just to get 1 terrorist -neither side is better than the other -but if Hamas 7Oct plan could be identified as anything then it was a Gazacide Plan -the various war crimes, crimes against humanity and methods of genocide are all concomitant to the Gazacide Plan.
I don't claim to know what the Hamas strategy was. It is impossible to believe that they did not factor in every possible outcome. But it is also possible to believe they erred. A former Israeli colonel, Shaul Shay, said Hamas miscalculated the Israeli response:
DeleteI hope and I believe that Israel will not stop until Hamas has been defeated in the Gaza Strip, and I don’t think that this was their expectation before the operation.
There is nothing I can find other than in Israeli circles and those of Western leaders that share your view. It risks sounding like a conspiracy theory. Anathema towards Hamas (which I have no problem with from a secularist perspective) because it is so one dimensional is no substitute for analysis. Those who argue this was nothing more than a religious Jihad and set the clock at 7 October are just not persuasive. It is just as plausible to argue that the Israelis provoked Hamas into taking action to justify their own response in pursuit of lebensraum, which is consistent with what its settlers have been doing in the West Bank: the world's most capable intelligence service was supposedly asleep. But, again, to make that claim credible we need to be able to join the dots.
Israel alone is responsible for Gazacide, the form of response it chose to make. Just as the IRA alone was responsible for the Kingsmill war crime, the form of response it too chose to make. There is context and a backdrop, but the buck stops with the perp.
Your take seems to want to break the link which is that Israeli state terrorism from the inception of the state of Israel in 1948 has punished and massacred Palestinians giving rise to cyclical violence and wars. And when the Palestinians respond you characterise them as terrorists motivated more by religious insanity than by Israeli oppression. It is hard to find a credible analyst who shares your view that this is a religious war, while they will accept that there are religious crazies in both camps.
While it is not your intention - you already have nailed your colours to the mast on what dock the Israelis should be in - it is still very much a logic much closer to the Israelis than it is to the people the Israelis are cyclically murdering and massacring. The Palestinian Authority - no friend of Hamas have not sought to explain it as you do, despite dissenting from the tactics Hamas used.
One side is not as bad as the other. The occupier is as bad as the occupied? That is a strange logic to me. The Israelis are infinitely much worse. The statistics alone will tell you that.
At the heel of the hunt, while intellectually and emotionally alienated from Hamas, I would always defend their right to militarily resist the Israeli Gazacide. Israel has no right to commit Gazacide.
We have a humanitarian catastrophe which is the sole responsibility of Israel and the tactics they they chosen to use. There should be an immediate permanent ceasefire and not one as seemingly suggested by yourself only in exchange for hostage release.
The only thing that puzzles me is the Israeli's saying over and over again that once Hamas is destroyed they are out- that is, they have no intention of re-occupying the Strip. This only makes sense if they intend to completely and utterly seal the border with themselves and Gaza, and not supply either electricity or water to them.
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ReplyDeleteYou must not have read earlier postings... I have never once held the view that "when the Palestinians respond you characterise them as terrorists". I have only ever referred to Hamas Islamist's as terrorists, and Hamas are in no way representative of the Palestinian people. I have referred to Israel as a terrorist state and it ought face the most serious charges in the International Court for its war crimes and crimes against humanity. I don't know Hamas plans beyond what they have stated and from observing them over the years. While Israel's current response might be more severe than Hamas expected but the Israelis predictable disproportionate response would have been a desired result -Ive said that quite a view times and even before the Israelis responded. I repeat again, I see no other plausible explanation than they intended to sacrifice the entire Gaza Strip, as if they strapped a suicide belt around Gaza, but I think you more aptly described Hamas' Gazacide Plan -even if that is not how you intended it.
I have also distinguished Hamas from the PLO/Fatah which tend to strategize as resistance movements rather than Islamic Fundamentalists who use the Palestinian people as human shields or cannon-fodder. I see nothing redeemable about Hamas and they are certainly not freedom or resistance fighters.
You should also go back and read what I wrote -I did not write that I think there should be no cease-fire other than in exchange for the hostages -I said I do not see the Israelis entering into a ceasefire without getting the hostages back -there is a difference there. I also observed how those on the left demand a ceasefire but ignore Israels offer for one in exchange for the hostages. I never ever suggested, conditioned or proposed that there should not be a ceasefire unless the hostages are released I said pragmatically, I could not envision the Israelis having a ceasefire unless they at least got their hostages back. Again there is a difference. There is only 1 strategy I have ever suggested I hoped the Israelis would take ...instead of going into Gaza -I thought they had enough go-pro and surveillance footage that they could have tracked down all the terrorists mossad style and take them out. I still think that would have been the better move for all concerned.
I am not alone in reading them and coming to the same conclusion. You know these things get discussed by people who know us. That doesn't make us right but it indicates how our input to the discussion is being interpreted.
DeleteYou have persistently reduced Hamas to a theocratic terrorist entity and sought to divorce its activities from Israeli oppression of Palestinians. That idea has been vigorously deconstructed by Israeli historians such as Ilan Pappe. The only school of thought advocating it is the Israeli one and its Western government backers.
Maybe you rather than I should reread what you said.
I am disappointed with the Ukrainians call for a ceasefire without demanding the release of the hostages.
Why would you be disappointed? It can hardly be that you are disappointed with the Ukrainians for doing something you agree with. The only reading of that comment that makes sense is that you are opposed to a ceasefire unless hostages are released. Why else would you be disappointed in the Ukrainian call?
It is up to you to set the record straight. It might have been a clumsy way of wording it and you didn't convey what you really meant. While I don't hold people to what they say in the comments section for ever and a day, for some the horse has bolted.
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ReplyDeleteRe: The issue of a Russian/Ukrainian ceasefire was raised here a long time ago and I saw the logic of Ukrainian opposition to entering into a ceasefire with the Russians. A ceasefire would consolidate territory held by the Russians and Ukrainians would have been negotiating from a position of weakness with the likely outcome they'd never get it back --it made sense why the Ukrainians would not want to enter into that kind of arrangement because it wasnt in their interests. It would be totally illogical to expect the Israelis (especially an extremist hawkish government) to agree to a ceasefire with nothing to show for it in their interests -I would have thought the Ukrainians would have understood that much and that was my point.
I was a bit surprised (suspicious even) that the Israelis said they'd have a ceasefire in exchange for the hostages --but the question is why are you and whoever snipping in the background opposed to a ceasefire on those terms?? A ceasefire and hostages released would be a progressive start. I don't support the Israelis but I understood the potential consequences and what the Israelis are capable off --that I called it exactly right before the Israelis even responded to Hamas -I correctly predicted that Hamas had effectively sacrificed the entire Gaza Strip --and there is not a shred of doubt that they didn't know what they were doing or cared a damn for the lives of Gazan civilians. And I make no apology for holding either the IDF or Hamas responsible for everything that has occurred since Hamas initiated its 7th October Gazacide Plan, and they carried it out in the most sadistic and depraved ways that can only have been intended to incense the Israelis.
That doesn't cut it for me Christy. How others see it is for them. Nobody was sniping at you, merely following the conversation and were surprised that you were blaming Hamas for the genocide in Gaza that the Israelis are perpetrating. What surprises them and me is that you have not been averse to hammering the Israelis, yet end up taking what on the surface looks like the most obscurantist view. Even break it down to something like a rapist attacking a woman who he and everybody else agrees provoked the rapist: nobody is going to assign joint responsibility to the rapist and the victim of the act of rape. The rapist alone is responsible for his rape. Israel alone is responsible for genocide in Gaza, which I have termed Gazacide.
DeleteI am disappointed with the Ukrainians call for a ceasefire without demanding the release of the hostages.
I can't think of any humanitarian who would be disappointed with the Ukrainian call for a ceasefire at all, the opposite in fact. They would have welcomed it. A ceasefire with or without hostage release would be a progressive start.
The attempt to flip it which you are entitled to do seems to have pulled you even further into the ethical fog. I can't speak for others but I guess the reason all of us at odds with your position is as simple as anything gets: it would delay the cessation. And such a delay does not benefit in the slightest the civilians and children who the Israelis will continue murdering until the condition is in place. An immediate ceasefire is the primary humanitarian demand without any linkage to hostages. If hostages are released at the same time, even better. But there should be no linkage and no disappointment at there being no linkage.
Christy Walsh comments
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My view has been clearly stated I thought the Israelis had a much more humane way of responding but didn't. I saw calls for an immediate ceasefire as aspirational with no affect once Israelis started. So I see a speedy release of the hostages as one of the main requirements that might change things. Not releasing them prolongs matters. I'd rather see a solution than feel I joined the handwringing chorus that's all nice and everything but as we have seen did fuck all. Realease of the hostages is an integral part of what could significantly change things and keeping them isn't saving any lives. I've said before Hamas would rather see 1000s of Palestinians dead than release the hostages. I have also said Hamas played the predictability of the Iaraelis well. My desires about a ceasefire are neither here nor there. I do not see one until the Israelis get something that they can get off the hook they have put themselves on. And whoever is in the gossip parlour offsite isn't going to change that so they can snipe away. Oh, Hamas are not rape victims but participants in aiding and abetting.
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ReplyDeleteSeems I wasn't wrong about the integral link between hostages and a ceasefire. Again, I never made any precondition just observed the obvious that once Israel had set its course they were never going to call a ceasefire without getting hostages, that just wasn't reality no matter how abhorrent the Israeli response was/is. Calling for a one-sided ceasefire tolerating or endorsing Hamas holding innocent people, including little children in medieval dark damp dungeons underground was just empty wind, which, to me, had as much to do with public self congratulating back slapping exercise than any real or meaningful prospect of success. Question is why is release of the hostages so objectionable? Why were the hostages of more value to Hamas than thousands of Palestinian lives, and you and the gossip parlour think Hamas beyond criticism in that regard? I'm going to make a guess here, but I suspect the gossip parlour is made up of radical dissidents who have saluted the sadistic murder and mutilation of babies in their cots... and while you are capable of posing your own questions and have --but I have thought on this case occasions, and previously, that sometimes your responses are more to satisfy a hidden audience who sit offsite in a gossip parlour and whisper in the background. You know I have a lot of respect for you but it is something that has popped up from time to time, Im' not saying you say things you don't believe yourself but there's just something, I dont know, maybe because they don't engage publicly you feel you have to be seen to represent them.
Viewing Hamas as Islamist terrorists and nothing to do with the interests of the Palestinians, beyond they are convenient cover. My guess, and its not a precondition, the hostages are the only bargaining chip they have. While they have shown they dont give a damn for Palestinian lives -the best solution on humanitarian basis, and their self interests, is they negotiate the release of all the hostages in exchange for their safe exit from Gaza. I say that from listening to the Netanyahu monsters in government who are intent on inflicting more atrocities. Neither they nor Hamas care 1 iota for the safety or welfare of the Palestinians that will suffer the brunt between the 2.
There is no point in me going over the same old ground. As I said I found your expression of disappointment at the Ukrainian call for a unilateral ceasefire without linkage disappointing.
DeleteGossip parlour is a figment of your imagination. But I see no point in trying to persuade you otherwise. Radical dissidents approving of baby murder - I have spoke to no one who believes that. Much like the imaginary audience you feel I am speaking for. Nobody has been backstabbing you or gossiping. They just expressed a difference of opinion. This is like conspiracy theory stuff. My responses are in line with the international humanitarian lobby, not those who favour war, baby killing or head chopping.
The humanitarian call for a unilateral ceasefire without conditions is the only position worthwhile taking. Anything else is to delay the end of the Israeli genocide. Hostages released only in exchange for a halt to massacring children is a position I would never endorse. As I have stated previously, even without a ceasefire Hamas should release the civilian hostages.
I have seen no one yet on this blog objecting to the release of hostages or thinking Hamas beyond criticism in that regard. My own position could not be clearer. The civilian hostages should never have been taken and should be released forthwith and without a ceasefire. If you could cite one example of where anyone has argued what you imagine they have, it might help. What they do object to is that release being a condition for the Israelis to stop their murder mission.
The respect is mutual - that is why we talk so much off the blog and not just about these issues.
But this drifting into the realm of fantasy stuff.
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ReplyDeleteI also think after Hamas exit --the issue of Palestinian integrity and freedom and Israeli safety within its own international recognized borders needs to be settled once and for all --both sides exist and neither is going anywhere.