Bill O'BrienThe war in Ukraine is going on for more then a year now and the Left in Ireland are in a most confused state as they are in the rest of Europe and globally.

Let's examine the issues involved and the different attitudes that prevail.

The History

Modern Ukraine became the state after the Russian Revolution when it was established. The commission of Nationalities chaired by Joseph Stalin (Uncle Joe) established Ukraine, took the proposals to the Politburo where it was discussed and voted upon and agreed, then made official and stamped by Lenin.

Previous to that, the landmass of what is now the Ukraine was divided between different empires, mostly Polish, Hungarian and Russia.

The new entity was to be economically viable: the existing big estates were to be nationalised and controlled by Soviets, production was to be collectivised, and the large estates amalgamated to increase the production of cereal crops. This continued onto the collapse of the Soviet Union when privatisation took place. The Soviet Republic of Ukraine guaranteed religious and civil liberties of all citizens. It incorporated two languages on equal footing within the state. In short, Ukraine had over 70 years of peaceful coexistence enjoyed by all Ukrainians.

In 1953 Crimea was added to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev who was himself a Ukrainian from the Donbass. This was to increase the availability of hard-currency for the Ukrainian economy as most of the Black-Sea holiday resorts frequented by Western tourists were on the Crimea peninsula. The Crimea had been for centuries part of Russia. In the 1860s a war was fought between the British Empire and the Russian Empire known as the Crimean War. No motion of Ukraine at that time as it did not exist. A small part of what is now modern day Ukraine was itself called Ukraine which gave the name the larger entity when that came into existence.

Genesis Of The Current Crisis

After the collapse of the Soviet Union different forces in Ukraine began to come into being. Two schools of thought came into play. There were those who wanted to merge with the European Union and the other that wanted to merge with the Russian Federation. A general election was held and those who supported the Russian Federation got 52% of the vote and those for the EU 48%. This was an extremely divisive result. It also had a linguistic and geographical divide as the EU vote was concentrated mostly on the western side of the Ukraine, where Ukrainian was spoken, and the pro-Russian vote on the eastern side, where Russian was spoken. American imperialism and the CIA organised a coup d'etat and the elected Ukrainian president had to take refuge in Russia. This led the provinces in the Donbass separating away from the rest of Ukraine, For eight years a war between Donbass and the rest of Ukraine took place. There were at least 14,000 dead in that eight years.

There was a peace agreement signed twice in Minsk but was never honoured by NATO. A former German Chancellor, who was supposed to be the guarantor of the agreement, said they never had any intention of honouring it. The agreement was a way of playing for time until they built up an army.

It became clear to the people of the Donbass that they were in mortal danger as just before the Russian intervention in 2022, the Ukrainians forces who had been trained in the most modern of warfare by NATO and were about to commence a genocidal war against them and their two provinces. Russia had to make its move.

Russia Seriously Underestimates

Russia seriously underestimated the determination and callousness of NATO and the West and initially were left unprepared. They did not believe that NATO and the European Union would allow the Ukraine to be totally sacrificed the way they did in order to get at Russia. Both the EU and the US had agreed not to extend NATO forward to the East to include the Ukraine. This too was an undertaking that was not kept. The West had prepared themselves well and were initially able to repel the Donbass/ Russian intervention. The situation has since been dramatically reversed.

Propaganda

A propaganda campaign to take total control of the media in the West and particularly in European countries - that has not been seen since the 1950s and 60s during the height of the Cold War - had been prepared and ruthlessly put into action. No Russian media outlets are allowed. Russia Today, an English language broadcast, was banned immediately. Even some diplomats from embassies were treated with great hostility by the interviewers. There was never any mention of the 14,000 killed in the eight years prior to the intervention. Nor was there any comments paid as to the type of Nazi state the Ukraine is and the corruption that was prevalent in it. At the time of the Russian intervention, programmes like Ukraine on Fire by Oliver Stone were taken off the Internet, as well as programmes exposing Nazism produced by independent television in Britain.

A culture of anti-Russian phobia was created where people were reluctant to question anything they heard from the media. Comments would not have been published in any event. That total censorship has only begun be dispelled recently. All of the print media in Ireland is anti-Russian. Social media like Facebook is monitored extremely thoroughly. A lot of people including Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians have had their accounts suspended for posting information they received from their relatives back home.

Ukrainian flags placed on all civic buildings, churches and city streets of the main towns give the impression that there's a war going on between Ukraine and Russia and not a war between Russia and NATO, totally ignoring the civil war that is also going on in the Ukraine between Russian speakers and Ukrainian fascists.

Potential Global Conflict

As the war progresses, a vast portion of the population of Ukraine has fled the country. There are reports of between two and three million people moving to countries in Western Europe. Also Russia has taken in four million that you don't hear about in the Western press. It's believed that as many have gone to Russia if not more, that have come to Western Europe.

Ukrainian casualties in this war have been horrendous. They have now turned to conscripting 16-year olds, plus men up to the age of 60. It's believed also there are 20,000 Polish troops fighting in Ukrainian uniforms. The Polish government has ambitions of regaining some of its old Empire in the West of Ukraine in the final settlement of this war. The American armaments industry is making a fortune and testing their new technologies at the expense of the ordinary Ukrainian. One of the biggest dangers is this could escalate into a nuclear war, or the Ukrainian fascists could make a dirty bomb which is not beyond them.

The Fascist State

Since the current regime has come into power all opposition has been banned, even Social Democrats, Christian Democrats and other Liberals. The Orthodox Catholic Church has had its churches desecrated and expensive valuables stolen. Even convents belonging to its religion have been desecrated and the nuns both young and old assaulted and sexually violated. Most of these nuns are elderly as young women have not been entering these congregations in recent years.

The minorities have been discriminated against also, particularly Romany gypsies and Hungarians living in the extreme south-west of Ukraine. The Hungarian government made representations on their behalf in recent weeks. A very common occurrence in the streets of Kiev and other cities is to look for Russian speakers and ask questions in Ukrainian. When they are unable to answer they are tied with clingfilm, and their faces are painted green to show they are septic to Ukrainian society. Romany gypsies are particularly prone to this treatment. A lot of these incidents were exposed on social media but none of the National media have taken them up. This is another example of biased censorship.

Trade unions were also banned. On one occasion in the city of Odessa the trade union hall was burned to the ground causing 50 deaths and over 100 hundred serious injuries. This was done by a group, the Right Sector, who have now been incorporated into the Ukrainian army, enforcing the regime's philosophy and ideology.

A large element within Ukraine has a long history of supporting Nazism. During the Second World War the government supported the German occupation. They carried out the extermination of Jews and Romany people plus Communist and other anti-fascists. They both built, and carried out many of the tasks, in the concentration camps within Germany itself. The collaborator of the time Stefan Bandera was executed in 1959 for war crimes. He has had monuments erected to him and main streets in the capital city Kiev named after him in recent years.

Ukrainian soldiers wear Nazi decorations on their uniforms and quite often can be seen doing the Nazi Salute. Nazism is the ideology and philosophy of the Ukrainian army. An army that is now being armed by NATO.

Opposition To War And NATO

The opposition in Ireland to this war has been very disappointing overall.

There has been no serious focusing on the atrocities committed by the Right Sector, Azov Battalion or any of the other fascist forces at play on behalf of the Ukrainian regime. Those who even attempt to raise these issues are accused of being pro-Russian and are subject to all kind of derogatory remarks and names. Nevertheless there appears to be growing awareness that something is not right, and people are beginning to question the media narrative. Groups have emerged and held demonstrations against the war in both Dublin and Cork: the stop The War Group, the Irish Neutrality League, the Peace and Neutrality Alliance and the Truth and Neutrality Alliance. Of these the Truth and Neutrality Alliance has the most migrant support with Russian speakers from East Ukraine and Crimea.

Irish Neutrality League has been doing tremendous work in Cork by exposing the breach of our neutrality by allowing naval ships visit the city on a courtesy call and a bit of recreation for their sailors. They haven't missed picketing one of those ships in recent years. This is very much to their credit.

The Peace And Neutrality Alliance has been going around 26 years and has held monthly demonstrations at Shannon airport against Americans travelling to Ireland and on to battle zones in the Far East. It has also picketed the Dail one day a month. It has produced pamphlets, leaflets and statements on neutrality which is commendable.

The Anti-War Group is a body of individual young people not affiliated to any party but have demonstrated against the war on the streets and within social media and should be commended and supported. The last demonstration at the Spire was organised by it.

The Truth And Neutrality Alliance are only going since the beginning of this war but have some old hands that have over 50 years experience in protesting against war. At least two of them were in the CND in England in the 1960s. They believed that truth is essential to the building of peace and the best foundation for the building of a peace movement. They have been exposing the type of regime that has been going on in Ukraine since the coup in 2014. They have a lot of Russian speakers from the Crimea and from Ukraine itself and therefore their particular knowledge is of critical importance to getting the truth out regarding this war. They have held three demonstration so far in central Dublin against the war. One outside the British Embassy as it was Boris Johnston who prevented a peace deal being accepted on more than one occasion. The Truth and Neutrality Alliance is made up of various Republican and Socialist groupings.

The Negative Left

The people on the Left who we consider to be negative as they find it difficult to except the actual truth coming out, never cease to amaze us. The Irish Anti-War Movement claims they are for peace, when clearly they are in support of NATO. They even had the cheek to distribute the leaflet among the supporters of our anti-war group, which included a lot of Russian speaking Ukrainians: the first demand on the leaflet was Russian Military out of Ukraine. One Russian speaking Ukrainian asked who it was was giving out that leaflet. I said he is a toffee-nosed Dublin architect and a member of the Socialist Workers Party/People Before Profit. She asked if he had any idea about what was happening on the ground. It was pointed to her that man was living in the clouds for so long he wouldn't recognise the ground

The Trade Unions

The trade union movement has been extremely silent in all of this. Where it has made soundings it has been anti-Russian. The members of the Dublin district Trades Council and a full-time official from a British-based union involved themselves with a picket at the Russian embassy at the early stages of this war. All this despite the fact that their colleagues in the Ukraine had been banned by the fascist regime there, and over 50 trade unionists were burnt alive in the trade union hall in Odessa after a May Day rally in 2014. There was no mention of that or condemnation by the Irish trade union movement which is to their shame.

The Labour Party

The leadership of the Labour Party in Ireland have condemned Russia even though Social Democrats have been banned by the fascists in the Ukraine. Do they not realise if they were in the Ukraine they to most likely be jailed and their money and property confiscated.

Sinn Féin

Sinn Féin have called for the expulsion of the Russian ambassador. An organisation that claims to stand for Irish neutrality should be behaving in a neutral manner and inform themselves of the facts about what is going on within the Ukraine. It should be paying particular attention to the atrocities and bombings that took place previous to the start of the war in the Donbass.

No2warNo2NATO

Different campaign groups can take heart that all the opinion polls taken in recent months clearly state that the Irish people are very much in favour of neutrality. The campaign is growing and there is great potential to build a genuine anti-war movement. Truth is the main foundation for peace.

If the fascists were to win in Ukraine, which thankfully is most unlikely, it will embolden fascism in other European countries and it will be the working class that will suffer.

NATO is the new Wehrmacht in Europe.

🖼 Bill O'Brien is an independent republican.

No2War No2Nato

Bill O'BrienThe war in Ukraine is going on for more then a year now and the Left in Ireland are in a most confused state as they are in the rest of Europe and globally.

Let's examine the issues involved and the different attitudes that prevail.

The History

Modern Ukraine became the state after the Russian Revolution when it was established. The commission of Nationalities chaired by Joseph Stalin (Uncle Joe) established Ukraine, took the proposals to the Politburo where it was discussed and voted upon and agreed, then made official and stamped by Lenin.

Previous to that, the landmass of what is now the Ukraine was divided between different empires, mostly Polish, Hungarian and Russia.

The new entity was to be economically viable: the existing big estates were to be nationalised and controlled by Soviets, production was to be collectivised, and the large estates amalgamated to increase the production of cereal crops. This continued onto the collapse of the Soviet Union when privatisation took place. The Soviet Republic of Ukraine guaranteed religious and civil liberties of all citizens. It incorporated two languages on equal footing within the state. In short, Ukraine had over 70 years of peaceful coexistence enjoyed by all Ukrainians.

In 1953 Crimea was added to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev who was himself a Ukrainian from the Donbass. This was to increase the availability of hard-currency for the Ukrainian economy as most of the Black-Sea holiday resorts frequented by Western tourists were on the Crimea peninsula. The Crimea had been for centuries part of Russia. In the 1860s a war was fought between the British Empire and the Russian Empire known as the Crimean War. No motion of Ukraine at that time as it did not exist. A small part of what is now modern day Ukraine was itself called Ukraine which gave the name the larger entity when that came into existence.

Genesis Of The Current Crisis

After the collapse of the Soviet Union different forces in Ukraine began to come into being. Two schools of thought came into play. There were those who wanted to merge with the European Union and the other that wanted to merge with the Russian Federation. A general election was held and those who supported the Russian Federation got 52% of the vote and those for the EU 48%. This was an extremely divisive result. It also had a linguistic and geographical divide as the EU vote was concentrated mostly on the western side of the Ukraine, where Ukrainian was spoken, and the pro-Russian vote on the eastern side, where Russian was spoken. American imperialism and the CIA organised a coup d'etat and the elected Ukrainian president had to take refuge in Russia. This led the provinces in the Donbass separating away from the rest of Ukraine, For eight years a war between Donbass and the rest of Ukraine took place. There were at least 14,000 dead in that eight years.

There was a peace agreement signed twice in Minsk but was never honoured by NATO. A former German Chancellor, who was supposed to be the guarantor of the agreement, said they never had any intention of honouring it. The agreement was a way of playing for time until they built up an army.

It became clear to the people of the Donbass that they were in mortal danger as just before the Russian intervention in 2022, the Ukrainians forces who had been trained in the most modern of warfare by NATO and were about to commence a genocidal war against them and their two provinces. Russia had to make its move.

Russia Seriously Underestimates

Russia seriously underestimated the determination and callousness of NATO and the West and initially were left unprepared. They did not believe that NATO and the European Union would allow the Ukraine to be totally sacrificed the way they did in order to get at Russia. Both the EU and the US had agreed not to extend NATO forward to the East to include the Ukraine. This too was an undertaking that was not kept. The West had prepared themselves well and were initially able to repel the Donbass/ Russian intervention. The situation has since been dramatically reversed.

Propaganda

A propaganda campaign to take total control of the media in the West and particularly in European countries - that has not been seen since the 1950s and 60s during the height of the Cold War - had been prepared and ruthlessly put into action. No Russian media outlets are allowed. Russia Today, an English language broadcast, was banned immediately. Even some diplomats from embassies were treated with great hostility by the interviewers. There was never any mention of the 14,000 killed in the eight years prior to the intervention. Nor was there any comments paid as to the type of Nazi state the Ukraine is and the corruption that was prevalent in it. At the time of the Russian intervention, programmes like Ukraine on Fire by Oliver Stone were taken off the Internet, as well as programmes exposing Nazism produced by independent television in Britain.

A culture of anti-Russian phobia was created where people were reluctant to question anything they heard from the media. Comments would not have been published in any event. That total censorship has only begun be dispelled recently. All of the print media in Ireland is anti-Russian. Social media like Facebook is monitored extremely thoroughly. A lot of people including Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians have had their accounts suspended for posting information they received from their relatives back home.

Ukrainian flags placed on all civic buildings, churches and city streets of the main towns give the impression that there's a war going on between Ukraine and Russia and not a war between Russia and NATO, totally ignoring the civil war that is also going on in the Ukraine between Russian speakers and Ukrainian fascists.

Potential Global Conflict

As the war progresses, a vast portion of the population of Ukraine has fled the country. There are reports of between two and three million people moving to countries in Western Europe. Also Russia has taken in four million that you don't hear about in the Western press. It's believed that as many have gone to Russia if not more, that have come to Western Europe.

Ukrainian casualties in this war have been horrendous. They have now turned to conscripting 16-year olds, plus men up to the age of 60. It's believed also there are 20,000 Polish troops fighting in Ukrainian uniforms. The Polish government has ambitions of regaining some of its old Empire in the West of Ukraine in the final settlement of this war. The American armaments industry is making a fortune and testing their new technologies at the expense of the ordinary Ukrainian. One of the biggest dangers is this could escalate into a nuclear war, or the Ukrainian fascists could make a dirty bomb which is not beyond them.

The Fascist State

Since the current regime has come into power all opposition has been banned, even Social Democrats, Christian Democrats and other Liberals. The Orthodox Catholic Church has had its churches desecrated and expensive valuables stolen. Even convents belonging to its religion have been desecrated and the nuns both young and old assaulted and sexually violated. Most of these nuns are elderly as young women have not been entering these congregations in recent years.

The minorities have been discriminated against also, particularly Romany gypsies and Hungarians living in the extreme south-west of Ukraine. The Hungarian government made representations on their behalf in recent weeks. A very common occurrence in the streets of Kiev and other cities is to look for Russian speakers and ask questions in Ukrainian. When they are unable to answer they are tied with clingfilm, and their faces are painted green to show they are septic to Ukrainian society. Romany gypsies are particularly prone to this treatment. A lot of these incidents were exposed on social media but none of the National media have taken them up. This is another example of biased censorship.

Trade unions were also banned. On one occasion in the city of Odessa the trade union hall was burned to the ground causing 50 deaths and over 100 hundred serious injuries. This was done by a group, the Right Sector, who have now been incorporated into the Ukrainian army, enforcing the regime's philosophy and ideology.

A large element within Ukraine has a long history of supporting Nazism. During the Second World War the government supported the German occupation. They carried out the extermination of Jews and Romany people plus Communist and other anti-fascists. They both built, and carried out many of the tasks, in the concentration camps within Germany itself. The collaborator of the time Stefan Bandera was executed in 1959 for war crimes. He has had monuments erected to him and main streets in the capital city Kiev named after him in recent years.

Ukrainian soldiers wear Nazi decorations on their uniforms and quite often can be seen doing the Nazi Salute. Nazism is the ideology and philosophy of the Ukrainian army. An army that is now being armed by NATO.

Opposition To War And NATO

The opposition in Ireland to this war has been very disappointing overall.

There has been no serious focusing on the atrocities committed by the Right Sector, Azov Battalion or any of the other fascist forces at play on behalf of the Ukrainian regime. Those who even attempt to raise these issues are accused of being pro-Russian and are subject to all kind of derogatory remarks and names. Nevertheless there appears to be growing awareness that something is not right, and people are beginning to question the media narrative. Groups have emerged and held demonstrations against the war in both Dublin and Cork: the stop The War Group, the Irish Neutrality League, the Peace and Neutrality Alliance and the Truth and Neutrality Alliance. Of these the Truth and Neutrality Alliance has the most migrant support with Russian speakers from East Ukraine and Crimea.

Irish Neutrality League has been doing tremendous work in Cork by exposing the breach of our neutrality by allowing naval ships visit the city on a courtesy call and a bit of recreation for their sailors. They haven't missed picketing one of those ships in recent years. This is very much to their credit.

The Peace And Neutrality Alliance has been going around 26 years and has held monthly demonstrations at Shannon airport against Americans travelling to Ireland and on to battle zones in the Far East. It has also picketed the Dail one day a month. It has produced pamphlets, leaflets and statements on neutrality which is commendable.

The Anti-War Group is a body of individual young people not affiliated to any party but have demonstrated against the war on the streets and within social media and should be commended and supported. The last demonstration at the Spire was organised by it.

The Truth And Neutrality Alliance are only going since the beginning of this war but have some old hands that have over 50 years experience in protesting against war. At least two of them were in the CND in England in the 1960s. They believed that truth is essential to the building of peace and the best foundation for the building of a peace movement. They have been exposing the type of regime that has been going on in Ukraine since the coup in 2014. They have a lot of Russian speakers from the Crimea and from Ukraine itself and therefore their particular knowledge is of critical importance to getting the truth out regarding this war. They have held three demonstration so far in central Dublin against the war. One outside the British Embassy as it was Boris Johnston who prevented a peace deal being accepted on more than one occasion. The Truth and Neutrality Alliance is made up of various Republican and Socialist groupings.

The Negative Left

The people on the Left who we consider to be negative as they find it difficult to except the actual truth coming out, never cease to amaze us. The Irish Anti-War Movement claims they are for peace, when clearly they are in support of NATO. They even had the cheek to distribute the leaflet among the supporters of our anti-war group, which included a lot of Russian speaking Ukrainians: the first demand on the leaflet was Russian Military out of Ukraine. One Russian speaking Ukrainian asked who it was was giving out that leaflet. I said he is a toffee-nosed Dublin architect and a member of the Socialist Workers Party/People Before Profit. She asked if he had any idea about what was happening on the ground. It was pointed to her that man was living in the clouds for so long he wouldn't recognise the ground

The Trade Unions

The trade union movement has been extremely silent in all of this. Where it has made soundings it has been anti-Russian. The members of the Dublin district Trades Council and a full-time official from a British-based union involved themselves with a picket at the Russian embassy at the early stages of this war. All this despite the fact that their colleagues in the Ukraine had been banned by the fascist regime there, and over 50 trade unionists were burnt alive in the trade union hall in Odessa after a May Day rally in 2014. There was no mention of that or condemnation by the Irish trade union movement which is to their shame.

The Labour Party

The leadership of the Labour Party in Ireland have condemned Russia even though Social Democrats have been banned by the fascists in the Ukraine. Do they not realise if they were in the Ukraine they to most likely be jailed and their money and property confiscated.

Sinn Féin

Sinn Féin have called for the expulsion of the Russian ambassador. An organisation that claims to stand for Irish neutrality should be behaving in a neutral manner and inform themselves of the facts about what is going on within the Ukraine. It should be paying particular attention to the atrocities and bombings that took place previous to the start of the war in the Donbass.

No2warNo2NATO

Different campaign groups can take heart that all the opinion polls taken in recent months clearly state that the Irish people are very much in favour of neutrality. The campaign is growing and there is great potential to build a genuine anti-war movement. Truth is the main foundation for peace.

If the fascists were to win in Ukraine, which thankfully is most unlikely, it will embolden fascism in other European countries and it will be the working class that will suffer.

NATO is the new Wehrmacht in Europe.

🖼 Bill O'Brien is an independent republican.

37 comments:

  1. The constant bombardment of civilian centres, critical infrastructure and the forced conscription of the most social disadvantaged young men en mass in Russia makes it a wee bit difficult to sympathize with Moscow.

    NATO as Wehrmacht? I don't remember one supreme overall commander of NATO who has successfully held an iron grip on power for decades quite like Vladdy, and if you want a lesson on authoritarianism, massive corruption and human rights abuses you need look no further than him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think the piece will persuade many outside the ranks of the faithful. There is so much it doesn't say and there are so many counter narratives that bear the test of scrutiny much better.
      Nevertheless, TPQ is a free inquiry blog and Bill's view has as much right to an airing as the next person's.
      Somebody on Twitter tried to refute it on the grounds that NATO was purely a defensive alliance. I found that a hopelessly weak position to take.

      Delete
  2. Since its formation in 1949 NATO has never been a "purely defensive alliance". Since the Berlin Airlift, 1948 I believe, the US, Britain and others who were on the winning side in WWII, a victory in no small way down to the Soviet victories in the East, have been edging towards the former USSR borders. For this reason in 1955 the Warsaw Pact, a defensive bloc of all the suppossed former communist countries, bar Yugoslavia, was formed. This was a result of the then West Germany joining NATO. Unfortunately, despite its flaws, the USSR are no longer with us, and NATO are hell bent on getting up to Russias borders, have been for years. This was Putins reasoning for invading Ukraine, his fears are well founded. Plus, as Bill mentioned, the activities of the Azov regiment who model themselves on the Das Reich Division of the Waffen SS, give Putin certain further justification.

    However, Putin himself has much responsibility for the fall of the USSR. He was Boris Yeltsins right hand man behind the scenes, when he and his cohorts planned the break up of the Soviet Union. Had the USSR been around this fucking mess would not have occurred. For this Putin is greatly to blame.

    As for Zelenskey, I think he is a fraud. He claims Jewish descent, yet allows and supports openly Nazi elements in his armed forces. How do you square that one? If he's bullshiting, and I suspect he may be, about that how many more lies has he told?

    The 26 county administration are bending over backwards to echo the policies of the USA. I'm surprised Joe Biden has not been given a place in the Senad, him being Irish, I don't think, and all that crap. There is welcoming refugees, rightly so, and looking fucking stupid as the 26 county government now look.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just that NATO didn't make much of an effort to expand. Plenty of Bluster but not as much as a Membership Action Plan. What NATO did in 2008 at Bucharest was recognise Ukraine's aspirations to join, nothing else. While Putin was behaving himself from the West's perspective and not interfering with profit accumulation the West were happy not to poke the bear. Much the same thinking that led NATO to bomb Yugoslavia. Now, we have the very opposite of what Putin claimed to want - NATO expanding. He gave it a facelift.
      It is easier to argue that at the start it had a defensive character but over the decades we have seen its evolution into something quite different.
      USSR - one less dictatorship is hardly a bad thing. Getting rid of all the dictatorships and the cabals that run them seems a good start.
      Azov gives Putin an excuse rather than justification. if he was really worried about the Nazis he would never have had them fighting against Azov in 2014 when Nazis from across the globe fought on each side.
      Me, I'd rather live in the West than under Putin's rule. I would just not allow myself to be blinkered to the failings of the West.

      Delete
    2. Supposed NATO expansion was
      Putin's Sudetland pretext for invading Ukraine. In reality it was to eliminate Ukrainian nationhood. .I wonder how many far right types of will cp.e to anti NATO demo. They all buy into Putin's lies.

      Delete
    3. He is on public record trying to deny that Ukraine is an independent nation. I guess one of his problems is the sense of Ukrainian nationalism that is resisting his invasion. Ukrainian nationalism is a two headed beast but it was very much in the mix during WW2 when Ukraine fought the Nazis so determinedly that four of its cities were among the thirteen awarded the status Hero Cities of the Soviet Union. Stalin at one time if I am not wrong offered to hand it over to the Nazis at the very early stages of the war only to be told by one of his officials it wouldn't matter what the Nazis did nor how far the Soviets retreated, the USSR would win in the end. The book I am currently reading on commutes goes into great detail on the battles - Ostkrieg: Hitler's War of Extermination in the East.
      by Stephen G. Fritz

      Delete
  3. AM. What you refer to as the “many counter narratives” is in fact the narrative : Bill’s piece is the counter-narrative . I do agree that any challenge to the msm narrative is unlikely to bear the “ test of scrutiny” from the likes of Steve R and Barry . But I hope it may help persuade those APQ readers who view Steve and Barry’s comments as reiterations of the msm narrative to join The Truth and Neutrality Alliance at the anti -Nato demonstration next weekend outside the US embassy .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your comment Boroba - always good to have a new voice on board.

      Delete
    2. I have friends on the receiving end of the Russian version of the "narrative" Boroba, and I'm curious why you are anti-NATO? Boiled down it is a voluntary pact between Nations for mutual co-operation in the face of aggression, formerly of the USSR..which Vladdy so decries the fall of.

      Not surprising that Ukraine wanted to join, and the traditional neutral Finland abruptly changed tack and asked for NATO membership once they saw the Russian aggression against it's neighbours in Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Syria, Turkey, Kazakhstan and Armenia since the early 90's.

      Is that all main stream media propaganda? Did Russia actually go into Georgia with flowers and chocolates? Maybe the Chechnyains had a different perspective too.

      Delete
  4. NATO is a military alliance which, among other things, protects capitalist interests. If a second revolution kicked off in Russia tomorrow, taking all the means of production into workers control and kicking Putin and his counter revolutionaries, capitalists out, then NATO would be on hand to assist Putin regain capitalist control.

    As faulted as the USSR was, it did, at least on paper if not in actuality, have more democratic structures, like the election of the Supreme Soviet, than the west.

    The CPSU fucked up the USSR, not the revolution itself.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That would seem to be the role of NATO. Many states have militaries whose role is to project their interests abroad, much like the Russians are doing in Ukraine. On this occasion NATO has been given a Facelift.
      People don't live on paper. Anything can be good on paper. Judge a tree by its fruits. If you hear people defending the Soviets in the same way others defend religious dogma, your instinct will tell you there is something wrong.
      You see the revolution as something good: I see it as an alternative way to power. I never trust revolutionaries. Rosa Luxemburg identified the essence of totalitarianism long before the Western academics came up with the term, in her identification of substitutionism.

      Delete
    2. @Steve R

      A true friend of Ukrainians wouldn’t support the decimation of the Ukrainian population. They wouldn't put their friends at the receiving end of Russian artillery while the Zelenski proxy regime gets on the receiving end of billions of dollars euros and pounds sterling.
      The US neo-cons , Boris Johnson ,EU leaders , Bono etc.are also proud to call Ukrainians their friends . But it’s only so long as their Ukrainian “friends” allow NATO use their country as a battlefield to fight Russia .

      Delete
    3. A true friend of Ukraine wouldn't support a mass mechanised invasion that has no shown no compassion nor issue with targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure. I also seem to have missed Ukraine attacks on or in Russia preceding this naked aggression. Shill for Putin all you like we see the truth.

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  5. In the west we live under a dictatorship, the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie". In essence this means, irrespective of who holds govermental power the bourgeois capitalist state will still rule. Any party, and Britain is an example, which threatens this state democratically elected or not, will be crushed. Jeremy Corbyn, when he led the Brit Labour Party, was ridiculed by the bourgeois media and oppossed by his own pro capitalist, almost tory, MPs. And he did not threaten the state. What would have happened had Corbyn led Labour to electoral success? He did better than many of his own right wingers, like Stephen Kinnock, felt comfortable with. In fact in 2017 Kinnock was in tears of fear when Corbyns Labour Party had wiped out Terressa Mays majority!!! Kinnock was crapping himself in case he might have to do his job, opposse meaningfully the now minority government.

    In Ireland, a point I made, the Week in Politics RTE acknowledged the state using the army would act if a left wing government were voted in. The broadcaster accepted this front to democracy as innevitable.

    On another note, just watching BBC News, BBC 2, the fraud Zelensky is now demanding any "country which fails to support Ukraine should be sanctioned". What this crook appears to be saying is neutrality should not be tolerated. Back him or else, couple that with his Nazi army and is Putin so far out of order? Two bastards pissing in te sme bucket of corruption, bit like here on a smaller less dangerous scale.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

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    1. I don't believe we in the West live under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. That to me is a Marxist slogan of seriously limited value. Rather than being an accurate characterisation of the West it is more a rhetorical device to justify the lust of many Marxists for power: our dictatorship is just a counter to theirs type thing. It also ignores the huge volume of Marxist work on the West and is most likely oblivious to Lenin's critique of infantile leftism, a critique that was very much able to distinguish between different forms of bourgeoise rule to the point of insisting on workers striving to ensure the rights afforded by bourgeoise democracy and denied by dictatorship.
      Capitalism does not need a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie but merely that it is the hegemon in any society (as per Gramsci) - something it achieves quite well.
      That does not for one second detract from the nature of the capitalist state but people have always had considerably more rights under capitalist democracy than they have under capitalist fascism.
      I would be very surprised if the RTE presenter said what you have attributed to her. I haven't seen it but I guess she was talking about what the PBP said. Have you a link for it? I haven't been able to find any reference to it online.
      There should not be any neutrality when a right wing capitalist power invades another country. Even you are not neutral. Your position is that Russia has no right to invade and that Ukraine has every right to resist. Whatever way you spin that it is not a neutral position.
      If Zelensky thinks his sanctions call is going to fly he may think again.
      I don't want to live under a dictatorship of any hue.
      When I die I hope that Stalinists and Fascists turn up a la Westboro Baptist Church to picket my funeral!!!

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  6. Bourgeois democracy has limited democratic benefits like a vote every four- five years. As most students of politics accept, the vote only means a change of party to govern the affairs of the bourgeoisie, capitalist class, making the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" an appt description. This was coined by Marx, and later echoed by James Connolly as a regular part of his discourse, a change of "committee" to govern the affairs of the rich. It is a description I agree with, though it is not the worst system on earth, it is certainly not the best attainable. The future stage of human development must be socialist if the human race is to a) survive and b) reach its full potential.

    You are correct we do have more rights under "capitalist democracy" than "capitalist fascism" though the line between the two is gradually becoming finer. In Britain there are those in government who wish to outlaw strikes and certain types of public demonstrations. They must be stopped before they go, as Thatcher wanted, all the way. The last style of governments to do this were fascist regimes during the 1930s.

    Now, it appears Ukrainian President, Zelensky, who many think the sun shines out of his arse, wants countries who wish to remain neutral in this conflict with Russia to be sanctioned. Who does he think he is? Little wonder the twenty-six county administration have bent over backwards, putting our neutrality into question, in their support for Ukraine and show Joe "I'm Irish" Biden how loyal to the USA Ireland are. A country who do not allow Irish immigrants, in many cases, to be "documented", a joke!!

    I share your sentiments about fascists and stalinists, Anthony, picketing your funeral. They can do similar to mine, wherever that may be. Behind the Stretford End perhaps.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

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  7. The rights are not so limited that you and I can critique the system and not be sent to the camps. There is a huge civil society in the West which caught the attention of Gramsci when he dispensed with the idea that any revolution in the West could be a replica of the Bolshevik one in the East. There is a democratic space there which should be protected at all times against the type of encroachment you refer to.
    A committee for managing the affairs of the capitalist class is so dated that it seems on a par with claiming the earth is 6000 years old because the Bible said it. Marxist thinking has evolved so much since that statement was made. In my view the state always serves capital not because it is some committee that the capitalists phone up every now and then and tell it what to do. It has a structural function driven by a capital logic. I don't know if you have ever read the debate between Miliband and Poulantzas from the late 60s early 70 carried out in the pages of the News Left Review. It dealt superbly with these questions. Probably one of the more memorable Marxist exchanges.
    Unfortunately, I think Ireland will join NATO. I have talked at some length with Pádraig O Maonaigh about this very thing. He campaigns against it but I don't hold out much hope. Before Russia's war on Ukraine NATO would have been a no no. Not any longer. Putin has given it a complete makeover.

    While Stalinism has been the scourge of Marxism, it would be most unwise to abandon a Marxist way of seeing the world. Marxist political economy seems to me to be the best way of making sense of the world in which we live. Marxian ways of thinking through the problems of capitalism have to be protected from the Stalinists and their camps.

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  8. I think you are correct regarding Ireland joining NATO, almost a racing certainty. I hope not but I hold out little hope. The Marxist theory of governments being a "committee" may be dated but cerainly not obselete. The means of production, the economy and distribution are all in private hands, those whose affairs the government, irrespective of party, will protect and represent. This is irrespective of society as a whole needs. If there's no profit, it doesn't get prodiced or supplied. The telephone analogy is a little flippant so I won't dwell on it.

    Stalinism is certainly the scourge of Marxism, the times years back older, so called wiser, people have said to me while arguing a position; "if you dont like it, get back to Russia" always their answer when losing the debate.

    Caoimhin O'Muraile

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    1. I hope both you and I are wrong about Ireland and NATO. Marxist theorising on both the state and class has evolved over time. Marx's work can't be treated like it is a bible. The phone call analogy was used at university to describe a conspiratorial view of capitalism which basically reduced it to appetites. Capitalism is a structure not an appetite.

      What has happened to Marxism is perhaps best explained by Foucault: “Marxism exists in nineteenth-century thought like a fish in water: that is, it is unable to breathe anywhere else.”

      Why do Marxists today so often sound like bible thumpers proclaiming that if only we would adhere to what they tell us, salvation is assured?

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  9. What a load of Putinite nonsense. Independent republican, independent of what. A supporter of the equivalent of the Loyalists of the 6 counties. I have rarely read something where nearly every sentence is just wrong. One blind spot, the Crimean Tatars, once the majority population of Crimea, deported by Stalin and replaced by ethnic Russians.What is left of them want to stay in Ukraine, as did the majorities in the annexed oblasts. This resource answers every point made and much more. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zXt2QhAr7M1ROnovnJ_GfpYBhpHFeOLK/view?fbclid=IwAR3vZAX00RvTYLMr4HlkztkhTASDnkOnnkUoJBye_dfiRzD_V5k5lPAqQAA&fs=e&s=cl

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  10. For anybody replying to Jim Monaghan’s pro-NATO “compendium", here’s a handy thesaurus entry for alternatives to the phrase “Nato shill”
    Nato-abettor , Nato accomplice etc.

    abettor
    accomplice
    aid
    aide
    assistant
    associate
    colleague
    confederate
    conspirator
    helper
    insider
    partner
    plant
    ringer
    stall
    subordinate

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    1. Because you can't credibly refute the evidence of mass Russian war crimes and refuse to acknowledge Putin's initial crime of aggression in Ukraine, you resort to juvenile name calling.

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  11. If The Pensive Quill’s AM finds Jim Monaghan’s pro -Nato link list to be such “a great resource “ ,he shouldn’t oblige his juvenile readers to copy and paste such a valuable resource’s IP address before they can avail of Jim’ s “compendium” ! Compendium or “syllabus “ as Jim also for some unfathomable reason calls his pro-Nato article link list .But I see that there’s a secondary sense of the word to do with the Roman Catholic Church that might apply : “a summary of points decided by papal decree regarding heretical doctrines or practices.”
    The surest way to “credibly refute” charges of heresy against Jim’s syllabus , Barry, is to point out that his list is just a left slant on the mainstream media’s doctrine - propaganda that was previously used against Libya and Syria , repurposed for war against Russia. In that sense the compendium/ syllabus is like one of NATO’s outdated Leopard or Challenger tanks once used against Arab armies but re-modelled to do battle against “ the evil Putin” .

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    1. Russia was the superpower who intervened to save the homicidal Assad regime in Syria and who then carpet bombed the civilian population as a prequel to the current humanitarian crimes in Ukraine. The Axis powers engaged in similar experimentation in Spain's Civil War as a foretaste of the global cataclysm that began in 1939. In both cases the West did nothing thanks to isolationism. misplaced pacifism and appeasement.

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  12. The West’s “isolationism” during the Spanish Civil War was conducted under the banner of “neutrality” and you want Ireland to abandon its “isolationism” in relation to the conflict in Ukraine.

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    1. The West's "neutrality" in Spain was down to cynical realpolitik. What is your basis for saying that I want Ireland to abandon its neutrality? As I do not reside in ROI or vote in its elections , my view is that it's for the people in ROI to decide on that whether through Dail statute or referendum.

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    2. I meant that last comment in relation to joining NATO or any other military alliance. As a modern liberal European democracy, ROI cannot be neutral when a fellow European democracy is attacked by an autocratic, imperialist and kleptocratic power.

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  13. Barry is arguing the case Varadker and Martin will shortly be making but can't say openly at the moment because of Ireland's constitutional position of neutrality . In order to avoid a future global cataclysm, Ireland should abandon its isolationism. misplaced pacifism and appeasement of the homicidal Putin regime.

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  14. Barry ,My basis for my saying that you want Ireland to abandon its neutrality is your saying : "As a modern liberal European democracy, ROI cannot be neutral when a fellow European democracy is attacked by an autocratic, imperialist and kleptocratic power."

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  15. Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov is pictured giving the UK a thumbs up today as he rides aboard the first Challenger 2 main battle tank sent by the British army.

    And Barry gives the thumbs up to Ireland ditching its neutrality in order to aid Ukraine, which he describes as a “a fellow European democracy” .
    I know that The Pensive Quill is a free inquiry blog but hopefully AM -maybe even Jim ! -will dissociate from the repugnant view expressed by Barry :
    “As a modern liberal European democracy, ROI cannot be neutral when a fellow European democracy is attacked by an autocratic, imperialist and kleptocratic power.”.

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    1. Not for the first time Boroba distorts what I say. Standing with fellow democracies does not automatically equate to joining a military alliance. It can mean non-military measures such as admission of Ukrainian refugees, providing humanitarian aid, sanctions on Russian aggressors, assisting Ukrainian support groups etc. Would Boroba have Ireland standing with pseudo democracies like Russia, Hungary, Poland and a Trumpian US?

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  16. Boroba, that does not automatically translate into joining a military alliance like NATO to which Ireland could make little practical contribution.

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  17. . Non-military measures are not matters “for the people in ROI to decide on …whether through Dail statute or referendum “ . Admitting Ukrainian refugees, providing humanitarian aid, assisting Ukrainian support groups, imposing sanctions on Russia , aren’t constitutional issues : Ireland is already doing all those things . The Irish neutrality Barry is referring to when he says the “ROI cannot be neutral “ can only be the Irish military neutrality enshrined in the constitution.

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  18. Odd that Barry would refer to Poland as a “pseudo democracy “. Saying such a thing about Ukraine’s strongest supporter in the EU would be enough to have you taped to a lamppost and painted toxic green in Kiev

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    1. Poland is the exception of the pseudo democracy club because of its historical experience of Russian subjugation. The others from Orban's Hungary, Erdogan's Turkey and Putin's Russia plus their cheerleaders in Trump's GOP and the contemporary European far right are, at the very least, "neutral" on Ukraine as they identify with Putin's disdain of Europe for its accommodation of plural gender identities and multiculturalism.

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