Lesley Stock ✒ describes a conversation she had with the author Richard O'Rawe. 

I’d never heard of Vol Ricky O’Rawe, so to hear he was a well-known author blew my mind. But I wasn’t surprised. I had been put in contact with him via a mutual friend, as I wanted to ask different opinions on the British Governments’ proposed Amnesty for a piece I was writing. He had emailed me his responses, and for some reason this man, who would have had nothing in common with the retired policewoman, just hit me! His words, so eloquent and interesting - and I wondered how a man of this compassion and intellect ended up in jail, and smearing his excrement over the cell wall! 

I’m not sure I’ll ever ‘get it’, but I’m fascinated as to why these guys did what they did, and also how they have changed their viewpoints ... If indeed they have. The arrangements were duly emailed and so I found myself across the table from this unassuming, well dressed man in his 60’s, with a soft Belfast accent and a surprisingly kind face, in the Europa Hotel, ironically the most bombed Hotel by the IRA - 28 times in total

I happened to mention to my good friend Anne Travers, that I was meeting him, thinking she would advise me to ‘be careful’ etc. However, the message that came back was ‘Oh Lesley, he’s lovely, very genuine - tell him I said hello’. I guess Anne had already given me the answer to ‘had he changed his viewpoint.?’ As ever, my opinion about conversing with ex-paramilitaries is – listen without prejudice, open your mind, and have respect at least, that someone is willing to tell their story, even if it is one you find hard to understand.

I came away from the meeting, having been hugged, and made completely at ease, feeling like this would definitely not be the last time we’d meet. Interesting, shocking, sad, and heart-warming is how I’d describe my chat with him. I did this to try to get my community to understand why some men took the route he took, purely because he was born into it. Some were monsters: I can tell that Ricky, even in the height of his IRA career, was not one of them.

The early days

Ricky's family were historically all old IRA, with his father in the 1940’s/50’s, having been an Officer Commanding of Belfast for some of that time. His dad had escaped from Derry Jail, (I never even knew there had been a jail in Derry!) and his father's youngest brother Alfie had had a gunfight with a policeman for about 3 hours, after which not one of them had been hit! 

His father hadn’t got involved in the ‘conflict’ as we know it, and had by that time ‘retired’ from the IRA. He’d been brought up on the Falls and having come from a republican family, he grew up thinking that they were more akin to the French Resistance fighting against an occupying force, rather than a terrorist organisation. I guess that epitomises the phrase, one man's terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. He saw the times changing with the British Army coming over and homes of folk he knew being burned out by Protestants. Of course the same was true of Protestants. He says he, to this day, has no idea how the shift in attitudes in regards to the army changed - from sending them sandwiches and tea, to ferocious gun battles, lasting days. But on 15th August 1969 the RUC started to shoot indiscriminately at anyone who moved in the area and Ricky was still able to name many of the first shot in West Belfast by the police, including Patrick Rooney (9) and British Soldier, Trooper Hugh McCabe (20).

The events of the early days, to him were unimaginable and it was a real shock to all of the community. I think, too, the Protestant communities in the thick of the disorder, more than likely viewed the awful events unfolding with the same horror, fear and anger, perhaps though, for different reasons. Prior to 1969, although from a prominent republican family, everyone seemed to be getting on with life and in fact Ricky related, with such warmth and reminiscence, that he had played basketball for Ulster with a Protestant, George from Fane Street, who he had had a particularly good friendship with.

Once there had been a shift in the security situation, the curfew came, and Ricky describes the night 1500 CS Canisters were thrown by the army onto the streets of Lower Falls causing panic, and distress in everyone as they choked and struggled to breathe with the noxious chemicals. He described with clarity his grandfather, who at the time was in his 70’s, choking so hard and the fear of not getting a breath, that one would have assumed it had been a recent event. Ricky leaned forward in his seat: ‘by fuck, I was angry!’ As someone with very close ties to family, I can imagine that anger, and completely understand it. It was at this time, he decided to join the IRA because he didn’t think there was any constitutional way forward to the issues surrounding Northern Ireland. And so, Ricky O’Rawe became – like so many others who would follow in his footsteps, Volunteer O’Rawe. 

It was during these early days of the conflict, that yet again, young Protestants were doing the same as their Catholic counterparts. They saw the IRA killing ‘their’ soldiers and police officers, so they became ‘Volunteers’ for the Loyalist Terrorist groups. Ricky admits that because of his familial ties to the Republican Movement, it was a pretty clear-cut decision. He also acknowledges that there were others who had never had the Republican ethos, but due to the considered acts by a Unionist state against Catholics, they then became involved with the ‘armed struggle’.

In 1971, internment was introduced in Northern Ireland through ‘Operation Demetrius’. Hoards of Catholics were arrested and sent to prison without charge. Later on in the operation, Protestants were also interned without trial however on a much lesser scale. In 1972, Ricky found himself interned on the Maidstone. In March 1972, Willie Whitelaw became the first Secretary of State for N.I. and realised that internment was a shambles on the basis that it looked bad to the international communities and so he started negotiations with the I.R.A. command. Ricky found himself back in the IRA and was interned again until 1974.

Next Week – From The Eyes Of An Adversary Inside.

⏩ Lesley Stock is a former PSNI and RUC Officer currently involved in community work. 

From The Eyes Of An Adversary

Lesley Stock ✒ describes a conversation she had with the author Richard O'Rawe. 

I’d never heard of Vol Ricky O’Rawe, so to hear he was a well-known author blew my mind. But I wasn’t surprised. I had been put in contact with him via a mutual friend, as I wanted to ask different opinions on the British Governments’ proposed Amnesty for a piece I was writing. He had emailed me his responses, and for some reason this man, who would have had nothing in common with the retired policewoman, just hit me! His words, so eloquent and interesting - and I wondered how a man of this compassion and intellect ended up in jail, and smearing his excrement over the cell wall! 

I’m not sure I’ll ever ‘get it’, but I’m fascinated as to why these guys did what they did, and also how they have changed their viewpoints ... If indeed they have. The arrangements were duly emailed and so I found myself across the table from this unassuming, well dressed man in his 60’s, with a soft Belfast accent and a surprisingly kind face, in the Europa Hotel, ironically the most bombed Hotel by the IRA - 28 times in total

I happened to mention to my good friend Anne Travers, that I was meeting him, thinking she would advise me to ‘be careful’ etc. However, the message that came back was ‘Oh Lesley, he’s lovely, very genuine - tell him I said hello’. I guess Anne had already given me the answer to ‘had he changed his viewpoint.?’ As ever, my opinion about conversing with ex-paramilitaries is – listen without prejudice, open your mind, and have respect at least, that someone is willing to tell their story, even if it is one you find hard to understand.

I came away from the meeting, having been hugged, and made completely at ease, feeling like this would definitely not be the last time we’d meet. Interesting, shocking, sad, and heart-warming is how I’d describe my chat with him. I did this to try to get my community to understand why some men took the route he took, purely because he was born into it. Some were monsters: I can tell that Ricky, even in the height of his IRA career, was not one of them.

The early days

Ricky's family were historically all old IRA, with his father in the 1940’s/50’s, having been an Officer Commanding of Belfast for some of that time. His dad had escaped from Derry Jail, (I never even knew there had been a jail in Derry!) and his father's youngest brother Alfie had had a gunfight with a policeman for about 3 hours, after which not one of them had been hit! 

His father hadn’t got involved in the ‘conflict’ as we know it, and had by that time ‘retired’ from the IRA. He’d been brought up on the Falls and having come from a republican family, he grew up thinking that they were more akin to the French Resistance fighting against an occupying force, rather than a terrorist organisation. I guess that epitomises the phrase, one man's terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. He saw the times changing with the British Army coming over and homes of folk he knew being burned out by Protestants. Of course the same was true of Protestants. He says he, to this day, has no idea how the shift in attitudes in regards to the army changed - from sending them sandwiches and tea, to ferocious gun battles, lasting days. But on 15th August 1969 the RUC started to shoot indiscriminately at anyone who moved in the area and Ricky was still able to name many of the first shot in West Belfast by the police, including Patrick Rooney (9) and British Soldier, Trooper Hugh McCabe (20).

The events of the early days, to him were unimaginable and it was a real shock to all of the community. I think, too, the Protestant communities in the thick of the disorder, more than likely viewed the awful events unfolding with the same horror, fear and anger, perhaps though, for different reasons. Prior to 1969, although from a prominent republican family, everyone seemed to be getting on with life and in fact Ricky related, with such warmth and reminiscence, that he had played basketball for Ulster with a Protestant, George from Fane Street, who he had had a particularly good friendship with.

Once there had been a shift in the security situation, the curfew came, and Ricky describes the night 1500 CS Canisters were thrown by the army onto the streets of Lower Falls causing panic, and distress in everyone as they choked and struggled to breathe with the noxious chemicals. He described with clarity his grandfather, who at the time was in his 70’s, choking so hard and the fear of not getting a breath, that one would have assumed it had been a recent event. Ricky leaned forward in his seat: ‘by fuck, I was angry!’ As someone with very close ties to family, I can imagine that anger, and completely understand it. It was at this time, he decided to join the IRA because he didn’t think there was any constitutional way forward to the issues surrounding Northern Ireland. And so, Ricky O’Rawe became – like so many others who would follow in his footsteps, Volunteer O’Rawe. 

It was during these early days of the conflict, that yet again, young Protestants were doing the same as their Catholic counterparts. They saw the IRA killing ‘their’ soldiers and police officers, so they became ‘Volunteers’ for the Loyalist Terrorist groups. Ricky admits that because of his familial ties to the Republican Movement, it was a pretty clear-cut decision. He also acknowledges that there were others who had never had the Republican ethos, but due to the considered acts by a Unionist state against Catholics, they then became involved with the ‘armed struggle’.

In 1971, internment was introduced in Northern Ireland through ‘Operation Demetrius’. Hoards of Catholics were arrested and sent to prison without charge. Later on in the operation, Protestants were also interned without trial however on a much lesser scale. In 1972, Ricky found himself interned on the Maidstone. In March 1972, Willie Whitelaw became the first Secretary of State for N.I. and realised that internment was a shambles on the basis that it looked bad to the international communities and so he started negotiations with the I.R.A. command. Ricky found himself back in the IRA and was interned again until 1974.

Next Week – From The Eyes Of An Adversary Inside.

⏩ Lesley Stock is a former PSNI and RUC Officer currently involved in community work. 

16 comments:

  1. Lesley - thanks for blogging this with TPQ. I am curious as to how this develops - as it seems are others from the number of page views it is drawing. I think most people will find it interesting while the usual bigots will be annoyed and demand that "ye be born again and renounce the devil"!.
    I have talked to many former RUC over the years (believing that the only place not to talk to a cop is when arrested!!) and have been surprised at how their views have evolved. One of them, while wholly critical of the IRA and retaining a photographic memory of every cop killed by the IRA, he spoke of state propaganda meeting facts on the ground and the jarring effect it had on him.
    Keep doing what you do - we will not "go native" by acquiring a little knowledge about our adversaries in life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AM
      Thanks for giving me the opportunity to have my newly found hobby a chance to be seen - and hopefully enjoyed. I know I have had great pleasure in writing the articles. You know mw by now - the usual bigots will be made to look like the idiots they are, if they do start! I have also found by speaking with former paramilitaries, that their 'reality' of being in an organisation has changed also over time. I think that everyone was 'used', whether it be by their own organisation or by the state. Seems to me, there have never been any 'winners' in this shite! Certainly the ones at the bottom of that pile are all the victims.

      Delete
    2. We are pleased you write and share your perspective - and it is a critical one, which TPQ is fine with. The blog is not an echo chamber for established interests but a forum for free inquiry. It carries quite a lot of pieces written by people from the unionist tradition.

      Delete
  2. Where we ever really adversaries in the intellectual sense or a manipulated people suffering from a mass psychosis? I remember listening to a kgb defector, whos name I can't remember and he was explaining methods the state or persons of influence would use to demonise whole communities or nations, definitely felt some parallels there. How much of our conflict is nature driven, how much is manufactured, who knows?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is there ever any one answer to these things? Politics are social - an IRA volunteer born two hundred yards down the road from where he was born might have been a UVF volunteer. The author of this article is maybe thinking had she been born in the Lower Falls or Derry she might have been a republican. Chance or choice we can never say with certainty. Much of what we do is shaped by experience rather than the value of the idea. Experience led to people joining the IRA - experience made the idea seem right to a person in the Lower Falls in a way that it did not seem right to a person in the Malone Road. We were ideationally predisposed towards making choices. Today, I think the best we can do is shape society in such a way that it minimises the potential for harm. Rigid ideologies and purism are barriers to progress in the least worst way that it can come - gradually.

      Delete
    2. If David or AM had been born in Nepal, taken at an early age into a Buddhist monastery and then primed for 'specialness' and leadership who would they now be?

      I'm pretty convinced we'd have the Dali Lama in our midst!

      Delete
  3. This is a great post and and from a different narrative, which makes TPQ such a great and unique platform .Will keep an eye on this matter as it developes

    ReplyDelete
  4. You're asking the wrong person. There are questions I have pondered since my teenage years, the nature of man, the true nature of consciousness and why Rangers/sevco get so many penalties. I'm approaching middle aged, I have still have no idea to the first two, the latter, I think I know, but the answer is usually a expletive filled sectarian rant. I still enjoy the intellectual discussion on politics but I don't get emotionally involved or try not to anyway.
    My political conversations happen mostly on the building site, where the young team, who, pardon the macho language, are absolutely ballless, lecture me about my generation's cowardice on racial matters, coming from a generation who sacrificed very little and suffered very little I usually just smile and nod.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David
      Although it would have been assumed I knew about the politics and 'workings' of the political and socio-economic issues here (after all I was policing them) i never knew the difference between UVF/UDA/Red hand commando or indeed the IRA/INLA..... It really didn't matter to me - all I saw was someone who was in need of a police officer to help them in times of need and those who were breaking the law. I deliberately tried not to think of things too much, or indeed get involved in any political conversations - I never wanted my judgement or integrity to be 'clouded'.
      It's really only since being retired that I have allowed myself to become involved in conversations about the rights/wrongs about this mess we're still trying to sort.

      Delete
    2. I am not really asking the wrong person - you state what you feel you know and do not bluff when you think you don't know it. I find your stuff engaging

      Delete
    3. Ah David, great to see we are still living rent free in your head lol

      Delete
  5. Not really here.
    Fair play to you. I hated cops, I have an ingrained distrust of them that'll maybe never leave me. I say this, not to be insulting but rather be transparent about my viewpoint and history. I find what you do very admirable, our social upbringing dictates we would have opposite opinions, the fact you state your case while trying to understand your enemies makes it easy to admire you though you are a stranger to me. Hopefully, one day the human brain can evolve so it can truly emphasize with suffering of history without the need to experience it.

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    Replies
    1. David
      Thanks but no need to justify your distrust of police to me, even when serving I totally understood why some thought of me as the enemy. I get that, but as when I was working as is the same now, treat me with decency before judging and I will treat you the same way. I've always been a great believer in earning respect not just 'expecting' it. I'm not an angel or saint, though I am fully aware that there are some in peace and reconciliation who portray that myth about themselves, but what I have is a conviction of mind that unless we can learn to talk, debate, and listen to others we don't agree with then we have achieved a little bit of moral intellect

      Delete
  6. This is one of the best series of posts I’ve ever seen. GRMA

    ReplyDelete
  7. Good on you Lesley, and Ricky, for engaging. The only way we'll ever have true peace and reconciliation here is to really listen and try to understand each others' perspectives. Complete understanding may not always be possible but if we can approach each other with open minds, grasp how much of our lives is the accident of birth and how much we are shaped by events and often manipulated by those in power, whatever 'side' we may be perceived to be on, we'll be doing okay

    ReplyDelete