As a spectator to the ongoing pissing contest between the various brands of theistic belief systems, I can only goggle at the sheer lunacy of arguing over the merits of any given deity.
Nonetheless, like an accident scene on the freeway, I crawl by at slow speeds, unable to tear my eyes away from the carnage (in this case mental,) displayed before me. I imagine spittle dribbling like gore from the open wounds that serve as the outlet for their barks and yips. I see them, eyes wild, arms akimbo and flailing wildly, as the work themselves into a fine religious lather over the relative supremacy of their chosen delusions.
What gives? Is a resurrected prophet somehow better or worse than one who ascends to the heavens on a magical flying horse? Does walking on water trump the perfection of prose? Is your God actually bigger than mine?
The contest nowadays is mainly between the followers of Islam and those who prefer the christian God. The fact that the object of both sides' adoration is actually the same God does nothing to diminish the vitriol of their followers' fusillades. To the ears of the non believer, these outbursts sound like nothing so much as toddlers involved in a squabble over who has first dibs on the toy du jour.
"Is too!
"Is not!
"Is too!
Well you get the general idea I'm sure.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
Carry on…
I'm glad Andrew has relieved his tensions for a while.
ReplyDeleteBut he is being rather reckless in his thinking:
'I see them, eyes wild, arms akimbo and flailing wildly, as the work themselves into a fine religious lather over the relative supremacy of their chosen delusions'.
Maybe he is watching too much Islamic or Hindu extremism online. Can't say I've seen it anywhere else. There have been many proper debates between Islamic scholars and Christian scholars - both holding that their God is the only true one, yet conducted with respect and toleration.
The murdering savagery on behalf of religion is confined almost entirely to Islamic or Hindu lands. Maybe some of the Buddhist violence in Myanmar is religious, but may all be ethnic.
'What gives? Is a resurrected prophet somehow better or worse than one who ascends to the heavens on a magical flying horse?'
Christ is not merely a prophet, but God the Son. Big difference between the Muslim leader and the Christian one.
'The contest nowadays is mainly between the followers of Islam and those who prefer the christian God.'
Indeed.
'The fact that the object of both sides' adoration is actually the same God does nothing to diminish the vitriol of their followers' fusillades'.
They are NOT the same God. One has a Son, the other has not. One saves His people by the atonement His Son provided. The other does not. Both can't be true.
'To the ears of the non believer, these outbursts sound like nothing so much as toddlers involved in a squabble over who has first dibs on the toy du jour'.
Rather than listen to virulent haters, Andrew would be better informed if he listened to the actual case made by each group and compared their claims with his own suppositions.
But maybe he is a crazie himself, like Richard Dawkins and the other New Atheists who foam at the mouth against all religion?
"But maybe he is a crazie himself, like Richard Dawkins and the other New Atheists who foam at the mouth against all religion?"
ReplyDeleteNone so blind as will not see.
Never wondered why 'God' has a 'Son' Wolfie?
The Sun.
Easter?
Entirely astronomical, new moons and whatnot.
12 Disciples?
12 Zodiac signs....funny that.
Resurrection?
Winter solstice when the Sun(!) dips down to the horizon...before coming back up again.
Funny how the same myth stories were plagiarized by the early Jewish off-shoot cult from other Mesopotamian desert myths like the born of Virgin, 3 Kings et cetera.
But let's face it, you will never doubt in the face of cold hard facts because your belief in Magic is stronger than your belief in Science.
happy christmas wolfsbane me ol segocia. long time no hear. on the dawkins topic though, check this out - click on 2 mins 37 secs and listen up until 3 mins 32 secs.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uidpJlNbKsQ
first of all his silence speaks volumes and then in the next clip he says something id never imagine him say. personally, i believe enough people are waking up to the theory of evolution scam and this is the elites next attempt at denying God - saying we could be designed by a more intelligent life form from somewhere else in the universe. anyway, have a nice time over the Christmas oldstock and chat soon, grouch.
Fuck me grouch I thought you had a bit of wit about ye.
ReplyDeleteThat youtube clip was a poor hatchet job badly edited to make Dawkins say exactly what the religious moron wanted him to say.
If you watch the entire clip it shows Dawkins say that NO such signature exists!
evolution believes the universe started by accident and that life started by accident (some say lightning hitting water) and that i grouch evolved from a bacteria that evolved into a tadpole that evolved into a pig-rhino-icecream cone - dog-banana-fruitcake-fruitfly-mars bar- monkey- human. i know a monkey in dublin zoo who i communicate with by sign language (i swear im not lying, honest), i told him about the theory of evolution and he told me it was the stupidest fucking thing (he swears a lot) he ever heard, and that if there was such a thing as evolution, he wouldnt be stuck in a poxy fucking zoo and that hed be human too. he told me that humans are thick for believing such colossal bullshit which puts the wonder of life down to mutations (which normally are stuff that goes wrong - but ends up going right according to this daft theory!!!).
ReplyDeletefrom the founder of the hare krishnas
...scientists in key academic, industrial and government positions have shown that they are indeed capable of mixing personal beliefs and ambitions with their research, thus altering the results. When this happens we are no longer dealing with a search for truth but with a pseudoscience and its resultant array of distortions, fabrications and false information. Unfortunately, this unscientific method has been applied to the most fundamental field of scientific inquiry - the nature and origin of life...
almost everyone in the world is under the false impression that life is born from matter....science is based on an incorrect theory; therefore all its calculations and conclusions are wrong, and people are suffering because of this...so we must challenge the scientists and defeat them....scientists cannot explain biological growth. They simply juggle words like molecule and chromosome, but they cannot actually explain the phenomenon...The modern world is a society of the cheaters and the cheated, unfortunately the cheated are eulogizing the cheaters and the small cheaters are worshipping the great cheaters...The law is cheating, medical science is cheating and the government is cheating...everyone is suffering here in the material world and scientific improvements means that the scientists are creating a situation of further suffering...I say to the scientists - if life originated from chemicals and if your science is so advanced then why cant you create life biochemically in your laboratories?...They have discovered atomic energy. Now they can kill millions at once. They have simply cleared the way for death. And yet they dare to declare that they will make life!
the most important thing in the above quote is - people are suffering because of this.
and this is from Jesus of Nazareth and my favorite quote in bible -
-O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise and clever, and for revealing it to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.
now, if im wrong, all ill say is that all these accidents and mutations have created the most awesome gift imaginable - children. up babies. defend the miraculous unborn whether u believe in God or science.
Steve R said:
ReplyDelete'Never wondered why 'God' has a 'Son' Wolfie?
The Sun.'
So if the Son = the Sun, what equals the Father and the Holy Spirit? No, you will find only a vague appearance of similarity in the Horus myth, etc. The idea of there being a God or gods is common to all mankind - as is to be expected from the Biblical account.
'Easter?'
Easter is not a Biblical term. Passover is that. A pity the corrupt church 'baptized' the pagan ideas and made them part of its ritual. It is not authentic Christianity.
'Entirely astronomical, new moons and whatnot.'
The Jews did use the moon and seasons for dating purposes. As we do. But nothing about worshipping them.
'12 Disciples?
12 Zodiac signs....funny that.'
You'll find the 12 disciples/apostles reflect the 12 Tribes of Israel, not zodiac signs:
Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
'Resurrection?
Winter solstice when the Sun(!) dips down to the horizon...before coming back up again.'
Same old sun comes back, of course. But the Resurrection brought Christ back in His glorious body, not as it was when He lived and died. Same too for the resurrection on the Last Day - the believers will not rise in mangled bodies, nor weak bodies like they lived and died with. They will rise in glorious bodies like their Lord.
'Funny how the same myth stories were plagiarized by the early Jewish off-shoot cult from other Mesopotamian desert myths like the born of Virgin, 3 Kings et cetera.'
Not sure there were any of those myths that claimed a virgin birth. And the Bible does not mention Three Kings. Have you references for your claims?
'But let's face it, you will never doubt in the face of cold hard facts because your belief in Magic is stronger than your belief in Science.'
I believe in the God who has revealed Himself to me by His word and Spirit. And I believe any science I can see demonstrated.
Hi, Grouch!
ReplyDeleteGood to hear from you too. Yes, Dawkins and Co. are true zealots for atheism, but their campaign seems to be drawing attention to its difficulties rather than disproving Christianity. As you say, the fall-back position when evolution is seen to be bogus is aliens bringing the necessary DNA for life to exist. But it has the same problem as the idea that a turtle that supports the earth on its back - in this case, its 'aliens all the way down'.
Only an eternal self-existent Intelligence can lie behind the universe.
A Happy Christmas and a Peaceful New Year to you and yours, Grouch.
Oh poor Wolfie,
ReplyDeleteKrishna, Buddha and Mithrya, all had the virgin birth myth. I
And only believing in demonstrated Science? Good man! I knew you'd come to see reason eventually! Evolution is currently being observed, and has been observed. Torpedoes the whole young earth nonsense you used to believe in now doesn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6S_kx0gDzc
ReplyDeletethis is my Christmas gift to steve, wolfesbane, anthony and anyone who cares to listen. i love isola jones at the beginning - u can see why im sure, greatest cleavage of all time. ive been watching this on youtube for years and only recently realised there was about 2 minutes applause after it. it sounds like theres a couple of tipp heads at a hurling match in the audience who just dont want the applause to stop. sutherland throws in a note at the end that i dont think verdi knew existed - i think theyre applauding her more than anyone. im not an opera buff by the way , but was raised listning to tommy o brien on sunday mornings and am partial to a good aria etc. anyway hapy Christmas u crazy irish bastards. this cant be by accident, serioulsy, this disproves evolution. viva verdi, viva life.
ReplyDeleteSteve, you've been taking Dan Brown seriously. Time to look into actual scholarship. This article introduces some of that:
https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/01/19/23-reasons-why-scholars-know-jesus-is-not-a-copy-of-pagan-religions/
Another:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3mVevn3NWYAC&pg=PT76&lpg=PT76&dq=krishna+virgin+birth&source=bl&ots=pFEiH4BSde&sig=grgMejqOsE-_PVxNigu-B-UTPfc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixj-TgxKXYAhWGDsAKHSHCDho4FBDoAQhpMA8#v=onepage&q=krishna%20virgin%20birth&f=false
And a Catholic one:
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/was-the-virgin-birth-of-jesus-grounded-in-paganism
As to evolution, you have only described the limited adaptation that arises from natural selection. Both Creationists and Evolutionists accept that.
For molecules-to-man evolution to be proven, one would have to observe, say, fruit flies evolving over many generations into something not a fruit fly.
All we can see are wingless fruit flies, finches with broader or narrower beaks, etc.
OK, we both understand that vast time is required for even one change of an organism into something other, and we haven't been observing for that length of time. But it still makes my point that we have not seen evolution happening.
Grouch, thanks for the thought. I'm a half-educated pleb, with only English as a functional tongue and a bit of NT Greek - so I only get the good vocal sounds and music out of opera. Give me Dylan, Cash, and country fiddle anytime! And her mother needs to have a word - !!!
ReplyDeleteFor a hymn with an Irish connection:
https://hymnary.org/person/Montgomery_J
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aBMxgYKGnk