Maybe the following will give people a better understanding of why we were so angry in regards to the exclusions of victims.
This is a very long list of Groups and Organisations that the powers that be considered Stakeholders and invited to these Consultations. Note Ballymurphy missing, Bloody Sunday missing, Kingsmill missing the list of missing goes on and on.
List of Organisations/interests invited to DOJ Stakeholder Engagement events – 4 to 6 August 2015
Action on Hearing Loss
Ancient Order of Hibernians
Antrim Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Archdiocese of Armagh
Ards Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Armagh Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland
Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO)/Chief Police Officers' Staff Association
Attorney General for Northern Ireland
Aware Defeat Depression
Ballymena Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Ballymoney Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Banbridge Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Belfast Central Mission
Belfast City Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Belfast Hebrew Congregation
Belfast Islamic Centre
Belfast Jewish Community
Belfast Solicitors' Association
Belfast Solicitors' Association
Carers Northern Ireland
Carrickfergus Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Castlereagh Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Catholic Bishops of Northern Ireland
Central Management Unit, OFMDFM
Chief Executives' Forum
Church of Ireland
Church of Ireland Diocesan Board of Social Responsibility
Citizens Advice Bureau
Civil Law Reform Division
Civil Service Commissioners for Northern Ireland
Coleraine Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Commissioner for Older People NI
Committee on the Administration of Justice
Community Relations Council
Confederation of Community Groups
Cookstown Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Craigavon Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Criminal Injuries Compensation Appeals Panel Northern Ireland
Cruse Bereavement Care Northern Ireland
Department of Justice and Equality
Derry City Policing and Community Safety Partnershi
Disabled Police Officers Association (DPOANI)
Down Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Dungannon Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Equality Commission for Northern Ireland
European Commission in Northern Ireland
Falls Women's Centre
Fermanagh Policing and Community Safety Partnership
First Division Association
Grace Free Presbyterian Church
Independent Monitoring Board - Hydebank Wood Young Offenders Centre and Prison
Information Commissioner's Office - Northern Ireland
Larne Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Law Centre (NI)
Law Society of Northern Ireland
Limavady Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Lisburn Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Magheraflet Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Methodist Church in Ireland
Moyle Policing and Community Safety Partnership
New Lodge CEP
Newry & Mourne Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Newtownabbey Policing and Community Safety Partnership
NI Prison Service
North Down Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Commission
Northern Ireland Law Commission
Northern Ireland Lay Magistrates' Association
Northern Ireland Legal Services Commission
Northern Ireland Local Government Association (NILGA)
Northern Ireland Police Fund
Northern Ireland Policing Board
Northern Ireland Public Service Alliance
Omagh District Council
Parades Commission NI
Parole Commissioners NI
Participation & the Practice of Rights Project
Pat Finucane Centre
Police Federation for NI
Police Ombudsman NI
Police Rehabilitation and Retraining Trust
Police Service of NI
Policing Board NI
Presbyterian Church in Ireland
Prison Service Trust
Public Prosecution Service
Rights Watch UK
RUC George Cross Foundation
RUCGC Widows Foundation
Rural Community Network
School of Law
South Belfast Partnership
Strabane Policing and Community Safety Partnership
Survivors of Trauma
The Ashton Centre
The Community Foundation for Northern Ireland
The Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland
The Police Superintendents' Association of Northern Ireland
Ulster Scots Agency
Unite the Union
Victim Support Northern Ireland
Victims and Survivors Trust
Victims and Survivors Forum
West Belfast Partnership
The list is not only very Policing partnership orientated, but seriously -The Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland are victims??ReplyDelete
One could say that the Dept of MisJustice considering the Orange Order as victims was stretching it in attempt to be inclusive but by excluding the Bloody Sunday, McGurks Bar, Ballymurphy and King Cross families it is outright offensive and the CAJ and PFC should withdraw their support until real victims that have been excluded are included.
Victims should picket outside the next event which I think is as follows:
September Events on Dealing with the Past http://rightsni.org/2015/08/september-events-on-dealing-with-the-past/
"The final Model bill, amended following discussion and feedback at the conference will also be launched at this event."
Apologies, my last post should have read Kingsmill.ReplyDelete
To call the lol stakeholders in the victims category is stretching the truth more than a little, no other organisation has done as much to create division ,spread hatred and create victims as that shower of bastards, they like the rest of the weasel fuckers on that list are all part of the Stormont gravy train ,I was there at the start of these "troubles " luckily enough I have survived almost intact some comrades and friends didnt, yet in all those 25 years I have never seen a jew or muslin dragged from a car or forced to adopt the position with an SLR stuck in their face, yet yip you guessed it their reps are invited to discuss the past to which they or their communities have played little or no part , that list includes all the uncle Toms and ass lickers in this farce of a place and as Kate says the real victims have been disregarded that includes both sections of this divided community,ReplyDelete
diplockcourts and martyReplyDelete
I understand your strong dislike of the OO but your comments are nothing but crass. This is the 40th anniversary of the massacre in South Armagh of 5 OO members in their hall by a sectarian death squad from the IRA. Are the OO more worthy as victims than those on Bloody Sunday? No, but they are still victims.
Yes Marty you have a point with regard those who never suffered or lived through the conflict.ReplyDelete
It is pretty clear that not even the PFC or CAJ spoke up and said "There is somebody missing ... the victims ..maybe they would want to be here?"
This is non victims legislating for victims in their absence! Utterly appalling, conceited and arrogant.
You are defending the absolute disproportionate, all due respect to those 5 Orange men but the Orange Order has not clean hands given they drove the hatred and killing that went on. The Kingsmill victims probably had an Orange Man or two but their allegiance is not the issue but that they are uninvited victims also so it need not be said that our comments were not crass. Your defence of the Orange Order is not crass?? Damn right it is because the familes of those orange men you refer were obviously not invited. The Orange Order is not a victim but as you say others were.
If you were really being honest then you should have also pointed out that the families of those killed at Loughghal and Ballgalley should have been invited, as too should the families of Plastic Bullet victims ( which included 1 loyalist and probable Orange man).
The meeting was populated with orange order and friends and associates of the police -and you have no problem with that?
Peter the deaths of everyone here due to the "troubles" have to seen a a complete waste I finished my post with the statement that both sides of our divided community have been disregarded with the exception of the OO which imo is a considerable part of the problem here,I cant register the instigators in my mind as victims, your argument could be expanded to include those para,s killed at Narrow Water , and all other members of the so called security forces or indeed volunteers , you cant lump all victims into the one category ie, innocent like the Bloody Sunday victims or those in the New Lodge or Ballymurphy, underserved maybe but def not completely hands clean,the fact that the OO are included in the so called "stakeholders" conversations shows once again the privileged and undeserving power that shower of bigots wield here, they as an organisation have been in everything that is rotten in this society and really the first thing anyone dealing with the past here if they are to be honest would need to look at the culpability of the OO not saying sorry to it ,ReplyDelete
No Peter, you are being retrospectively unhelpful, it couldnt of been the IRA, they promised they were observing a ceasefire at the time. Luckily for them,the South Armagh Republican Action Force were honest enough to claim Tullyvallen as their operation,thus clearing up any potential confusion.ReplyDelete
diplockcourts and martyReplyDelete
If a dedicated victims commisioner can't say definitively who the "victims" of the Troubles are then I have no chance. I am just pointing out the tribal nature of your posts. Marty said of the OO, "no other organisation has done as much to create division ,spread hatred and create victims as that shower of bastards" but you could also say the same about the Catholic Church in Ireland. Saying the other side is more evil than your own lessens the weight of your argument. Both sides created victims and were victims.
I,ve just noticed a very significant omission from that list, ET he is a wee orange bastard, how do I know this ? he looks like one or a wrinkley version of Ford,ReplyDelete
Peter may I refer you to my original post yet again, I made reference to uncle Toms and ass lickers these are the catholic church and those castle catholics who have an eye on higher office, a dedicated victims commissioner ya cant be serious TAKE A LOOK AT THE STAKEHOLDERS LIST, do you really believe that list includes the real victims , ffs, my assertion that the OO is a principle part of the problem here not part of the solution stands,ReplyDelete
"I am just pointing out the tribal nature of your posts."
No your not. You are drawing attention to your own 'tribal nature'.
Nowhere have I said that any victim should be excluded. The Orange Order is not a victim and its membership was the most heavily armed of all organisations involved in the conflict. In fact the Orange Order is not on ceasefire and continues to insist on trampling over nationalist communities.
I objected to non-victims being invited at the exclusion of victims (including the 5 families you refer to with OO affiliation)
I am not even saying that the Orange Order should be excluded but that victims should be prioritised.
And if organisations that have contributed to the violence are welcome then that should mean all of them and not just the Orange Order.
The list above exposes the 'tribal' mindset of the organisers which have disproportionately focused on ensuring a strong unionist presence of RUC/Policing organsations, Ulster Scots no Irish language organisation and the most notorious sectarian bigots of all the Orange Order.
If you really meant what you say: "Both sides created victims and were victims." Then you would agree with myself, marty and Kate Nash and not defending the obvious policy of exclusion of real victims.