WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City
4 April 2015
And, in addition to that, they sent him a
letter that said: You're not wanted. There are no charges against you. You can come
home. But now, they are threatening to put them on trial. Ed, thanks very much
for being with us.
EM: My pleasure, Sandy.
SB: Help us understand: Why is this happening? It
doesn't seem to serve any purpose whatsoever.
EM: Well, it has to do with these “letters of
comfort” as they're called that were issued by the Blair government to mostly
IRA people who were on-the-run, in other words who were wanted by the police in
Northern Ireland for various offences - and indeed also the police in Britain. And
the letters were negotiated as part of the peace process accords by the Sinn
Féin leadership and the Blair government. And they were issued to over two
hundred IRA or former IRA activists and they basically said: You can return now
to Northern Ireland. The police will not pursue you. You're not wanted. There
isn't a warrant out for your arrest. There will be no prosecution.
Effectively delivering an amnesty -
admittedly to a very select number of people – and one can imagine that to get
on that list you had to satisfy certain pre-conditions as far as the
Sinn Féin leadership was concerned, ie you were basically on board the peace
process programme. But even so, it was regarded as a very important concession
by the British government because it enabled Gerry Adams to say to these
people: Look, here you are – this is one of the benefits of the peace process.
The Brits will not be pursuing you and you can come back and live with your
families and carry on life as normal.
And this guy, Michael Burns, was one of
those. He went on-the-run in 1977 after a shooting incident, the details of
which are not exactly clear at this point in time, but he went south of the
border and not long after he went south of the border he was arrested and
charged and convicted of taking part in an armed robbery. And he served eleven
years in the Republican wing of Portlaoise Gaol. During that time, it would
have been the RUC, the predecessors to the present PSNI, sent an extradition
warrant
south of the border trying to get him
returned as soon as his sentence was finished. And that was refused, as most of
these extradition warrants were, on the grounds that it was a political offence
and there was a political exception in The South's law.
So after he was released from his prison
term he stayed south of the border, quite sensibly, because he'd get arrested
if he came north of the border. Then the peace process starts - then these
letters of comfort are issued - and he gets one of them. And he's one of the
very early recipients of the letters of comfort.
Then he moves back to Belfast. He lives in
North Belfast; sixty-seven years old now. He has a disease called COPD which is
a very, very serious lung disease. It's a progressive lung disease which means
it gets worse with time. And essentially, the lungs cease to function in the
way that they're supposed to and you know, you'll see people wandering around
the streets of New York or in hospitals carrying canisters of oxygen and
breathing through them – those are people who have COPD. And it's a fatal
disease, essentially, and he is at the terminal stage and he is getting
palliative care at the moment. (And palliative care means basically the doctors
can't do anything more for you therefore they try and keep you comfortable.)
Now, back in 2014, a former IRA activist by
the name of John Downey, who had also received a letter of comfort, was
arrested by the British police as he traveled back and forth between Ireland
and Europe, and he was charged with involvement in a quite famous bombing in
London in 1982, Hyde Park bombing, famous because, although four soldiers were
killed, the British public were actually much more upset by the fact that
horses were also killed. Anyway, he was charged with that and then when it came
to trial he produced this letter and said: Well, here you are. I've been given
this promise that I'm not to be prosecuted and here you are breaking this
promise. And the judge, therefore, let him go.
That created an awful stir amongst the
Conservative government supporters in the House of Commons and the Conservative
government led by David Cameron – which is – one has to always bear in mind
that these are people who are very, very strongly under the influence of
neoconservatives in their own party. There's an outfit called the Henry Jackson Society
which is the equivalent of the neoconservative movement in Britain, and huge
numbers of Troy MPs and also some very senior figures in the government are
members of the Henry Jackson Society. It's a neoconservative society. They
never liked the peace process. They thought Gerry Adams was just putting on a
show and it was a great big piece of trickery – the peace process –
that Adams intended to go back to war as
soon as he got concessions out of the British government and weakened the
members – like “stuff and nonsense” -
but then we know from neoconservatives they specialise in stuff and
nonsense – I mean they got into a war in Iraq on stuff and nonsense and they
had the same stuff and nonsense approach and attitude towards the peace
process. And as a result of all the fuss that was created, the Cameron
government has withdrawn these letters of comfort now.
Now this is like, I think, a very serious
crisis for the peace process except that no one on the Republican side seems to
be terribly bothered by it. They're not making a fuss so therefore it's not a
crisis. But it qualifies as a crisis because here you have in negotiations a
solemn promise given by the British government and a British Prime Minister to
a party in those negotiations and his successors come along and say: Screw
that. We're ripping these letters up. That's breach of faith and it poses very,
very serious problems, I think, in the long-term for the Sinn Féin leadership
even though they are, at the moment, not saying anything about it.
So this guy, Michael Burns, is a victim of
this backlash against these letters of comfort and they're trying to put him on
trial. His lawyers are going to argue – when it comes to court – they've got a
judicial review specifically dealing with the letters of comfort - and they're
going to say: Okay. The police are saying here that this letter was issued in
mistake – that he was really wanted all the time. But they've known this for many
years. This letter was issued to him in 2003. Why didn't they act upon it way
back then?
They're only acting upon it now because
there's a political fuss therefore this is “abuse of process” as they call it
in law. In other words, they are twisting the legal process in order to suit
their goals. And they're going to try and kill it. It's been held up because at
the same time, the legal aid authorities in the British system, in the Irish
system, people who don't have money, like they do in America, get public legal
help. The legal aid authorities were refusing to allot the required amount of
money to fight this particular issue of the letters of comfort. So it's all
coming to court in the middle of this month – actually in a couple of weeks or
so - and we'll see what the outcome of it is.
I broke the story on The Broken
Elbow but I wasn't the first to do that – another blogger in
Belfast, a former lawyer called Peter Sefton, broke it and
he told me about the story and I sort of developed it a wee bit more but
there's been totally media silence about it and it's quite extraordinary.
SB: What puzzles me is still: By the time this
court hearing happens he could be dead!
EM: Yes, he could be. I mean his lawyer told me
that they're actually surprised – or his
doctors are surprised - that he's even alive now - that he's so badly ill –
obviously this COPD is really very, very serious for him and they honestly –
and I don't think he was exaggerating - they will not be surprised if he is
dead before this court hearing in the middle of April and they're talking about
him like having days or weeks to live at the most. And the fact that the
prosecuting authorities are pursuing him - and also have refused to drop the
case on the grounds of health - that even if they get a conviction of this guy
he's not going to serve any time because he'll be dead.
It seems like a very ruthless piece of
inconsiderate and almost merciless action by the authorities and that is being
carried out by the son of Paddy McGrory. And you know, people who are familiar
with the legal process in Northern Ireland will know that Paddy McGrory, a
former IRA member himself, was a great civil libertarian lawyer who stood up
and defended people when other lawyers wouldn't defend them - a political
activist for sure but always on the sort of the Republican/Nationalist side -
was Gerry Adams' own lawyer - and I just wonder what Paddy would think of his
son now as he does this type of thing.
SB: Yeah, this is Barra McGrory.
EM: This is Barra McGrory, yes.
SB: Who's now the Director of Public
Prosecutions. And what was Barra McGrory
before he was Director of...
EM: He was a solicitor in Paddy's office and then
when Paddy died he took over the business and he inherited a whole number of
clients; one of whom was Gerry Adams. Another one was Bobby Storey. A lot of the
senior Sinn Féin leadership were all represented by McGrory's law firm. Now
he's Director of Public Prosecutions.
Now you know this character Michael Burns -
I don't know much about him apart from what I've heard from his legal
representatives - but one assumes that because he got a letter of comfort that
he was not in conflict with the Sinn Féin leadership. He was regarded as a
persona grata by them therefore you're not talking about some “wild dissident”
that Barra McGrory's pursuing - you're talking a mainstream Republican who
supported the peace process, you know?
SB: But this would seem to me, and as I've said
I'm not easily shocked about things that happen in The North, but I am shocked
about prosecuting a man who's days or weeks away from dying.
EM: It seems heartless to be honest with you and
pointless as well because as I say, if they lose this judicial review and the
letter of comfort is officially withdrawn, then the guy goes to trial – it'll
take months for the trial to happen - he will certainly be dead by then. So
this is being done primarily to overturn these letters of comfort that
Blair...and Barra McGrory is facilitating this.
SB: But one would think that if one was a Sinn
Féin politician and they were going after people who have been, at least in the
past, loyal to Sinn Féin, suffered for Sinn Féin and now you have an outrageous
case like this that you could use to possibly upset the whole process. Are they
speaking out?
EM: Well, you see I think that's the problem. I
think that's why they – I mean, they may be doing stuff privately behind the
scenes – you know, I'd be very surprised if they weren't - but they're publicly
- Sinn Féin are not saying a word about this type of thing for the obvious
reason: Because it raises questions: Well, why did you do the deal with these
people? Because, you know, if you can't
trust them to keep their word what's the point in negotiating with them? And
that's really – you know, that gets to the heart of the debate that has existed
in Irish Nationalism for decades and centuries between physical force and
constitutional methods where the physical force people are saying: You do a
deal with the British - they'll betray you at some stage and here you have a
classic example of that. So I don't think - you can understand from the Sinn
Féin's point of view - they don't want to highlight this embarrassing example
of that, you know?
SB: Well also, it would be an admission that they
lost the war.
EM: Well, indeed. You see, I've argued that this
whole issue of pursuing people now, by the PSNI with the blessing of the
British government, is effectively resuming the war against the IRA because the
conflict between the two sides was fought in very different ways: the IRA used
weapons and bombs and tried to kill as many British personnel as they could -
they clearly obviously didn't do very well because they killed an awful lot of
civilians - but leaving that aside for the moment - that was their modus
operandi. Whereas the British, while they also went out to kill IRA people, the
major effort that they put in against the IRA was in the courts – was to bring
IRA people in front of judges and put them through the legal process and send
them to gaol for long periods of time – that's how they fought their war.
The IRA has stopped bombing and shooting.
Everyone knows that and they've given up most of their weapons. But the British
haven't stopped their war. They're
continuing to pursue the IRA. That is a breach of the spirit of the peace process
in my mind, you know? But again, it's one of these embarrassing things that no
one really wants to talk about which I rather think there's been no media
coverage of it.
SB: Well, if the war had even been fought to a
draw – there's some people who say that the IRA won the war - but even if it
was an honourable truce you know, “we'll just call it even” - you wouldn't be
able to go back...
EM: ...Well, that's what it was supposed to be,
Sandy. It was supposed to be a negotiated end to this conflict – everyone gave
up a little bit in order to end the war. Some people gave up more than others,
perhaps - but leave that to one side for another day. But in terms of like the
way that the conflict ended was by mutual agreement, by negotiation, by winning
and giving concessions on either side and that implies no side is going to
claim victory or admit defeat. And therefore, when the British say: Well,
actually we're now going back to trying to put people behind bars who were
involved in this war that was ended by negotiation they're actually ripping that
up and saying: We won and this is how we put our victory into practice.
SB: But when Nelson Mandela and the ANC took
power – they made it unable to prosecute - they made a deal not to prosecute
some of the worst agents of the white minority government. But none of their
people are on trial. Their people are in government.
EM: Absolutely! Never were. And I think if
Mandela and his ANC had negotiated a deal with the white government and then
the white government resumed trying to put Mandela's people in gaol again the
whole thing would have broken down, you know? I don't think there's any doubt
about that.
No, it's implicit, in fact, almost explicit:
part of the arrangements when a conflict ends in a mutually agreed way, through
negotiations, through concessions that a line – you know, John Hume has this
famous phrase: Draw a line through the past or under the past, alright? That's
it. Over. Forget about it.
What is happening now with this Cameron
government, which again as I say - strongly influenced by neocons, is that
they're saying: Screw this. We're going to pursue these letters of comfort
people and anyone else that we can find evidence against who was involved in
The Troubles.
SB: Well, in terms of David Cameron, who is the
current Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, who's up for re-election...
EM: ...Well, no - Prime Minister of Britain.
SB: Prime Minister of Britain, of course – so
that makes him, in fact, the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland - but he's up
for re-election and everybody says that no single party is going to be able to
form a government in Britain and he might be dependent on the Democratic
Unionist Party.
EM: He might well,indeed - he might well, indeed
– and it will be very interesting to see what the results are because there's
another mathematical equation which has potentially Sinn Féin also holding the
balance of power but in order to exercise that balance of power they would have
to drop heir tabstentionist policy in the British Parliament and take an oath
of allegiance to the Queen. And since Martin McGuinness has been dining with
the Queen it seems to me a logical step that that would happen.
But that depends on the the election result.
But you're quite right. It could be a “hung Parliament” as they call it – one
which has no clear majority – and that Cameron will go to the DUP and the DUP
will be as hard as iron on these issues. Why should they be anything else? The
IRA's their enemy. And they're in government with Sinn Féin and the DUP has
said this repeatedly you know that as far as they were concerned negotiations
that they undertook to get into government that the arrangement of sharing
power with Sinn Féin was not a permanent measure – it was a temporary measure
and that at some stage in the future they'd return to majority government or
majority rule, you know?
SB: Hypothetically, and it's not just
hypothetical it's a very real possibility, if you've got a conservative
government dependent upon the Democratic Unionist Party to stay in office,
as the saying goes: You ain't seen nothing yet!
EM: Exactly.
Exactly.
SB: But again, another thing that puzzles me
about this case, about Michael Burns' case, about a man who's dying – a
sixty-seven year old man in eminent - will die in days or weeks - and is being
prosecuted. Now, that would seem to me to be a huge media story. Even
forgetting the political implications that you've been going into – just on a
human interest basis I would think that would be a huge story.
EM: You would think so but you know, I haven't
even one call from a journalist in Ireland saying: Who's his lawyer? Can you
give us a phone number? Well, I did have one contact – and you know about it -
but that wasn't from Ireland – that was from New York. And there you are. That
tells the story – doesn't it?
SB: But, Ed, I mean I come back to the stupid
questions: You found out about the story. Through you I found out about it. I'm
in New York...
EM: You phoned me.
SB: Why can't somebody sitting in Belfast find
out about it the same way you did?
EM: Well you know, I've got all sorts of theories
about that but that's an entirely different programme, Sandy, you know but -
it's the state of the media in Ireland.
I just think that they're at the stage after
thirty years of conflict and now a peace process in which the pressure has been
on the media all the time to conform, to conform, to conform - not to question,
not to question – is that it's worn all of them down. I mean, I know
journalists there who are good journalists - very great journalists some of
them - who would understand the importance of this but unfortunately they seem
to be outnumbered by the others, you know?
SB: But
meanwhile Michael Burns, to come back to the actual individual, seems to be a
victim caught in the middle. Sinn Féin doesn't want to raise his case because
that would be admitting...
EM: ...Well, at least in public. They may be
doing it privately.
EM: ...You embarrass the opposition.
SB: Right. This would be an ideal case to do it
with.
EM: Yes, you would think so but I think the cost
of doing that is to expose weaknesses in the whole peace process strategy which
they don't want to do.
SB: And the media, for some reason, doesn't want to do it, either.
EM: No.
SB: So we have poor Michael Burns just...
EM: ...Yeah, I mean the circumstances of this
case are exactly the same as John Downey's which started this entire farce.
That in both instances the police said: Ooops! We made a mistake. He shouldn't
have gotten a letter because we did really wanted to pursue him. And John
Downey's case created headlines and huge political controversy. But this?
It's like it's been “disappeared” - to use a phrase.
SB: And meanwhile, there's a man who's going to
die very soon who's going to be dragged through the courts.
EM: Yes. It's very possible.
SB: And that is what the peace process seems to
translate to in reality.
EM: Well, that's where we're at – that's for
sure.
SB: And you
know, we were talking earlier to Christy Walsh who's on hunger strike for
twenty days to try to clear his name and he emails daily to Martin McGuinness
and has never heard a word back. So that seems to be where the peace process is
at right now.
EM: Well, you know Sinn Féin I think have got a
priority in their minds and that's to win power in The South and I think that's
dominating everything, really, in their minds.
SB: Ed, before I let you go because we're running
out of time – tomorrow on 60 Minutes your old friend Gerry Adams is
going to be featured saying he was never in the IRA among other things.
EM: Yes, indeed, indeed. And I think the
importance of this - this is not a new story for us in Ireland or for people
from Ireland – I mean, it's been there on the agenda for more than a decade -
nearly twenty years, in fact. But this and The New Yorker article about
Jean McConville and Gerry Adams and this piece on CBS, which is also about Jean
McConville and Gerry Adams, is exposing this embarrassment regarding Gerry
Adams to an American audience really for the first time. And there are a lot of
people in America who certainly didn't know about this and here is this horrible
story coming out and it can't be something that he or his party welcomes at all
in America. They don't want this sort of story. They don't want this sort of
publicity in America.
SB: Well, as we say: Stayed tuned!
EM: Okie doke.
SB: And we've been talking to Ed Moloney. He's
the author of A Secret History of the IRA. He blogs on The Broken
Elbow.
Have to say I've mixed feelings on this issue. Can't for the life of me get my head around how those who sought to have Ireland for the Irish could ever seek or accept permission from their old colonial masters to walk in their own land.
ReplyDeleteSad and ironic end to what was in truth it now seems nothing more than a shambolic farce from start to finish.