“It’s at the idea stage. The talks are about something that may happen in the future but we haven’t got to the point of discussing who would be included.”
Adrian Kerr - Manager, Museum of Free Derry quoted in the Derry Journal July 28th 2014
There are no plans whatsoever to develop a Memorial Garden to anyone, least of all British soldiers, in the space behind the museum or on the roof of the museum. Museum education officer John Kelly, brother of Bloody Sunday victim Michael Kelly, said: “The fact is that myself and Jean Hegarty, two Bloody Sunday relatives, work in the museum, and do people really believe that we would accept such a thing? I really can’t believe that this scandalous gossip has been given so much credence by people who should know better. This damages not only the reputation of the museum but the reputation of the relatives who work here and those on the board of BST.”
Statement from the Bloody Sunday Trust Published 1st August 2014
There never was a plan to construct a memorial garden to include British soldiers in the Bogside. Four years ago there was a brief discussion within the Trust about a Peace Garden. It went no further. Nor are there any plans to construct a memorial to include British soldiers now or in the future.
8th August 2014 Robin Percival Vice-Chair Bloody Sunday Trust writing in 'The Pensive Quill.'
“It was discussed once at a meeting years ago.”
Why all the quotes?
On July 25th 2014 local residents questioned members of the Bloody Sunday Trust on plans to redevelop the Museum of Free Derry at a public meeting held in the Pilots Row Centre, Derry.
During the Pilots Row meeting a member of the public raised the issue of a proposed 'Memorial Garden.' The very idea of a memorial garden was dismissed outright on a number of occasions as you can read above.
The truth is somewhat different.
It is now obvious that these plans are not “scandalous gossip” nor were these plans the subject of “brief discussion four years ago” or “discussed once years ago” but “something that may happen in the future.”
I am now calling on the Bloody Sunday Trust to publicly explain why they are telling the public one thing and discussing something completely different behind closed doors. I am calling on the Bloody Sunday Trust to be honest to the people of Derry about their plans.
|Minutes referencing Memorial Garden|
|People who received the minutes|
|Minutes again show Memorial Garden on Agenda.|
I am calling on the Bloody Sunday Trust
'Set The Truth Free'
- More from Vincent Coyle:
Can I suggest that The Pensive Quill start a Facebook group called " The Pensive Quill on Facebook" or some such name so that us readers would get notifications and can debate in real time?ReplyDelete
if you befriend me on Face book or Twitter you will get immediate notice of the discussions on either about TPQ
Well Well Well!ReplyDelete
Colm Barton, Colum Eastwood, Conal McFeely, Jean Hegarty, John Kelly, Julie-ann campbell, Raymond McCartney, Robin Percival, Dutchy Doherty.
There's a quare list of shame! Stand up take a bow shinners, stoops and ne'er do wells!
I'll bet the shredding machines are running full tilt in Glenfada park tonight!
Will John Kelly now apologise for his accusations of scandalous gossip? And as for damaging reputations, John & Jean Hegarty should look to their employers.
Will Robin Percival and Julie-ann campbell now resign as Chair and vice Chair of the Bloody Sunday Trust they have deliberately mislead not only the people of the Bogside, but the people of the city? Will the rest of the Board do the same?
If they've been untruthful about this what else have they been untruthful about? If one of my relatives was among those murdered by the Brits that day I'd be demanding the BST disband.
We've 2 MLA's in the list of those who got the minutes, although Stoop Eastwood has left the Bloody Sunday Trust maybe he would like to clarify what was discussed, and as for $hinner Raymond McCartney, well I'm sure he'd be delighted with a memorial garden, him and Marty could welcome the british royals on their 2016 tour?
Robin Percival was happy to use this site as a platform not too long ago to spin a load of flannel, has the cat got his tongue now? Would Robin care to comment? Will the Bloody Sunday Trust be issuing a statement? I doubt it!
Fair play to Vinny Coyle for exposing this, he gets my 2014 balls of steel award.
Set the truth Free!
Can you not approach Eamonn McCann and ask him what's going on? Any time i've heard him talk on radio-TV etc he seems like a straight talker and he is the chair of the trust (going by their website)
Chair – Eamonn McCann
Vice Chair – Conal McFeely
Treasurer – Geraldine McGuinness
Secretary – Robin Percival
Colm Barton, Christine Bell, Maoliosa Boyle, Julieann Campbell, Tony Doherty, Gerry Duddy, Colum Eastwood, Raymond McCartney, Michael McKinney, Pauline McClenaghan.
Jean Hegarty, John Kelly, Adrian Kerr.
McCann hasn't been involved for a couple of years, groups like this don't update their websites so that people don't have a clue whose who and running the show. What I have heard is that the board now has a few of J118 deputy dawg McGuinness' family in there with a number of other $hinners and a token stoop.
They have some explaining to do!
Snowtourch, thanks for clearing that up.. The reason why I suggested Eamonn McCann was his name appears hereReplyDelete
And on this 'contact' list it's simply an email... contact
I knew you'd been on the website and why you'd suggested McCann. What's interesting is that McCann as long term chair of the Trust walked, he was replaced as chair by Conal McFeely, who also walked after a short time in the role.
Makes me wonder why 2 left in such a short space of time. It will be interesting to see if the Derry media pick up on this or will they be as watery as ever?
Again the issue of pen names is making itself felt in this thread. Commenters are reminded that whereas they might be a valid vehicle for transmitting a message they lose that validity if they are used to launch abuse. Labelling people plonkers on an issue as important as this will draw attention to the abuse of language rather than the abuse of power which Vincent believes exists and has placed firmly at the centre of his critique.ReplyDelete
Sorry for the cross posting,I didn't refer to anyone as a 'plonker' on this thread. it was on this one http://thepensivequill.am/2014/08/no-plan-to-construct-memorial-garden-to.htmlReplyDelete
AM if that's abuse 'You Plonker' then i would suggest you read back over various other threads on TPQ.
What I would suggest is if you're concerned about abuse you now challenge Robin over the lie in his statement published on TPQ.
I look forward to your challenge to Robin.
that's correct. It was not on this thread and it was my mistake for missing that. It was made on another post related to this one.
However, we have previously asked on this site that people do not use pen names to hurl abuse at each other. More importantly, people should not be using a pen name as a shield to throw abuse at those who stand over what they say with their own name.
There is little merit in exposing someone else to the risk of ridicule if we try to protect ourselves from it by using pen names. It seems a basic civil courtesy in debate.
I don't feel the need to say a thing to Robin or anyone else. There are enough people taking him to task as is their right. This site provides a platform for it. It will also provide a platform for him or others to explain their perspective. My main priority at the minute is to allow the debate to continue and not have it diverted into name calling and recriminations that seem to cloud more than they clarify.
Again thanks for the update about the 'non update'...
I've emailed 'The Trust' and asked why are they running to websites-not updating'. Maybe they'll get back, maybe they wont..
firstname.lastname@example.org Aujourd’hui à 1h21 PM
To whom it may concern...
I've few questions in my head and the maths aren't adding up... I recently read an article in The Pensive Quill by Vincent Coyle where he asked some serious questions about a 'memorial garden' that may or may not be included.. here is a link to the piece I'm referring to...
I post under the pen name 'frankie' on the TPQ (I have done for years).. Long story short I posed a question why doesn't someone simply ask Eamonn McCann as he appears on one website as 'The Chair' of the trust.. Yet on another website about 'The Bloody Sunday Trust' there is simply an email contact...
I was then informed in the comments section that Eamonn is no longer part of the trust and had left it a while back...
Why run two websites about the Bloody Sunday trust with two different 'contact' details?... Is it simply an over sight, bad management or to sew confusion.... Personally I think it's shoddy.. We both know both sites are hosted by the same servers in England etc.., same Domain and all the rest...
The interest in this topic is underscored once again by the amount of people reading it. And if any of the Derry people at the forefront of highlighting this are hassled by goondas then it is incumbent on the rest of us to speak out on their behalf and stand up to intimidation from wherever it might come.ReplyDelete
I am shocked, outraged and deeply hurt at the behaviour of the Bloody Sunday trust. I now have very strong trust issues with all involved. My heart goes out the 450 innocent victim families that have been looking towards these people for guidance and leadership.ReplyDelete
From people that can't even tell the truth about a garden. Me and all my friends have all been strong supporter's over the last 30 years and based on this evidence brought forward by Vincent Coyle the member of a highly respected republican family I now believe the trust must resign one and all.
Now there is no trust.
This is clearly a case of obtaining funding at any cost. Those giving the funding want something in return and that is a rewriting of history in that those murdered on Bloody Sunday and the other innocent victims of the British were actually killed as a result of the inability of the two sections of our community to live together peacefully.ReplyDelete
The British, the funders want the world to believe, lost soldiers and police officers (The RUC) who were merely trying to restore order and keep the peace between two warring communities even if they 'sometimes overstepped the mark.' They were, all of them, victims of a dirty sectarian war back in what the shinners now term as'The Bad old Days'.
That is why you have the likes of Donncha MacNiallais saying that 'on a personal basis' he believes that 'a garden or whatever to remember all those who died in the conflict whether civilians or combatants is worthy of consideration.'
How can a so called republican claim that the army of an occupier, a sectarian police force; the RUC, and local militia; the UDR and various loyalist killer gangs are combatants when they strove to defeat the IRA by killing innocent civilians?
In fact could anyone imagine something like the Ann Frank House in Amsterdam creating a garden which also remembered those who died on the side of the Nazis?
Having revived the failed policy of criminalisation the shinners now attempt to promote the lie that it was indeed the Catholic community struggling against Unionism for equality.
It's a fact that the leadership of SF have always sought to surreptitiously control ownership our dead; whether it be IRA volunteers or innocent victims, by buying over some of their relatives in the form of employment. This has not only caused division among families but it means, as in cases such as in that of the Museum of Free Derry, they can have it appear that any condemnation is not directed at them as a party or their various schemes but at actual families who've lost loved ones.
That is why we had some members of the Bloody Sunday Families to the fore in calling for an end to the Annual march for Justice even though Justice had not been achieved.
I've just received this email reply from Adrian Kerr....ReplyDelete
The Bloody Sunday Trust has only one website (www.bloodysundaytrust.org) plus another for the museum (www.museumoffreederry.org), though it is well out of date and there are a few areas that probably contain out of date information. I will freely admit that we have a lot of work to do on both websites. First off, Eamonn was Chair of BST but left a number of years back, so would not be involved in any current discussions. On the points raised in the article, the issue of a memorial garden was discussed in the past, but was never included in any actual plans even though the name for the area remained on a number of drawings etc. Since those posting these documents have FOI’ed all information they can about this development, they also have copies of current documents that show no discussion around a memorial garden, but none of these have been posted. The discussions were at no stage about a memorial garden to British soldiers, as has been alleged. I can confirm that BST has no plans for any sort of a memorial garden as part of this redevelopment of the museum, a point we have made in public on a number of occasions.
A very ambiguous statement there from Mr.Kerr, a few things jump out he states 'Since those posting these documents have FOI’ed all information they can about this development, they also have copies of current documents that show no discussion around a memorial garden, but none of these have been posted.'ReplyDelete
The documents clearly show that a memorial garden was clearly on the agenda as recent last year,that's not a title or an image remaining on plans, or indeed a small discussion 4 years ago, this contradicts the public position of the Bloody Sunday Trust. Actually I would be amazed at the ineptitude of any architect leaving something on the plans / drawings of a multi-million pound development that were not part of the finalised design.
Maybe The BST or Mr.Kerr would like to publish all their plans, previous plans and documents, minutes etc online? Also how does Mr.Kerr know what documents have been requested under Freedom of Information?
Secondly and most importantly Mr Kerr does clearly state that 'I can confirm that BST has no plans for any sort of a memorial garden as part of this redevelopment of the museum'.
On the minutes dated 10/5/13 it does clearly mention the memorial garden as point number 5, however what it does state is that points 1 & 5 are 'not part of the fabric and could be dealt with separately'.
This could support Mr.Kerr's assertion that the memorial garden is not part of the current museum redevelopment. It would seem a safe contention that although not part of the actual current planned redevelopment, it is something that the Bloody Sunday Trust is planning for the future or had planned until they were rumbled.
Despite everything that has been said the Bloody Sunday Trust has made no effort to publish any of their plans, documents, minutes etc, all they have done is contradict themselves at every turn. I think it's time they set the truth free!
i had a retired barrister in the taxi today here in galway who was a young student in queens back in the the 70s and he went on the march that day. he told me he had an awful feeling something terrible was going to happen. Why? because he saw a poster-billboard (ithink he said on strand road) advertising a film called sunday bloody sunday with glenda jackson. i just thought id mention it. anyway, well said dixie, that sadly is about the size of it.ReplyDelete
LYING GITS are two words that come to mind. A family friend wrote to the Bloody Sunday Trust. here's the response:ReplyDelete
About 4 or 5 years ago when we first started talking about this development we discussed the possibility of a memorial garden as part of the development. This was never, despite the rumours and allegations, to be a memorial garden to British soldiers. The discussions never went very far and it was never included in any actual plans, though the name did hang around on some architects drawings. The current situation is that there is no memorial garden planned as part of this development, and no plans for one in the future. We have answered this question on quite a number of occasions to the people who keep spreading this rumour, but they continue to do so in an attempt to embarrass the Bloody Sunday Trust and hinder our work towards this redevelopment. I hope that this answers your question, but feel free to ask any other questions you might have about the redevelopment.
Thanks for getting in touch,
Two points Adrian Kerr says the discussions took place4 or 5 years ago and that the discussions never went very far. What planet is this bugger on? Never went very far, their own documents show that they were discussing it last year! Adrian Kerr then says that the people who are asking questions are doing it to embarrass the Bloody Sunday Trust. Maybe if the Bloody Sunday Trust had a smidgen of honesty, decency or actually gave a damn what people thought they'd give a straight answer, then maybe people wouldn't be asking questions, but if I was as much of a liar as some I'd be taking a big reddner too.
I believe that the 'row' or the 'rows'surrounding the developments arising from the mass murder by the British Army on Bloody Sunday is a disgrace to the memory of our martyred dead.ReplyDelete
Such petty egotistical based contentions disfigures their tremendous sacrifice for not alone the freedom of Ireland but their noble pursuit of opposing internment without trial.
Of course the ego is a powerful enemy of the truth for there are many around,in Derry and without, who claim personal participation in the latest struggle for peace based upon justice.
Those, however, are the fantasy makers and Derry has many of them just as Cuba had.
The Martyrs Of Bloody Sunday
(Derry, Ireland, 30th January, 1972.)
Conversing, laughing, singing, marching,
In opposition to the internment of anyone without
Proof of wrong doing... In the aftermath of Orders blood oozed from thirteen dead Participants of what, until then, was
A joyful, peaceful occasion:
Hugh, John, James, Michael,
James, Gerald, William, Kevin,
William, John, Patrick, Bernard,
Michael. Later, Johnny,- arising
From his wounds.
In the course of time innocence confirmed
In-spite of attempts to blacken…So, let
Us recall with pride our departed friends,
Relatives, neighbours and citizens:
Gilmour, Young, McKinney, McDaid, Wray, and
Donaghey, McKinney, McElhinney, Nash, and
Duddy, Doherty, McGuigan and Kelly.
Later to be joined by the surname- Johnston.
To be forever etched in the hearts of ‘justice
Loving people’ within Derry, our country,
And beyond our shores.
Liam Ó Comáin