John McDonagh (JM) interviews Greater Ardoyne Residents Collective (GARC) spokesperson Dee Fennell (DF) via telephone from Belfast about the contentious Twelfth of July Orange Order parade in Ardoyne. Thanks as ever to TPQ's transcriber, always at hand to perform a laborious task.
Radio Free Éireann
WBAI 99.5FM Pacifica Radio
New York City
12 July 2014
(begins time stamp 14:53)
JM: Unfortunately, here in New York we don't get the pleasure of having these Orange marches coming through our neighbourhoods. Even if you wanted to avoid it, in The Six Counties there's certain areas where it's not good enough that they march in their own areas - they have to bring their proud tradition into the Catholic areas. Most people in Belfast, if they have any money, can get away to the “Republican Riviera”, which is known as Bundoran in Co. Donegal. But one person who didn't get away, and he ran in the last election, Dee Fennell, saw one of his posters up on one of these great, traditional bonfires, which sort of sends a signal that the Loyalists are watching him. And he was part of that proud tradition last night when his poster was burned. But we go to Ardoyne in Belfast and we speak with Dee Fennell. Dee, are you there with us?
DF: Yes, John, how's it going?
JM: I think a lot better than you because I know you might not want to celebrate The Twelfth but you really have no choice because the Orangemen said that: We're coming into your area whether you like it or not. So maybe you could explain what happened today?
DF: Well basically, the Twelfth of July's all about the Orange Order celebrating a victory that King William of Orange had in 1690 over a Catholic king. And they've been celebrating it every year since their foundation – in this case the Peep o'Day Boys in the late eighteenth century before changing their name to the The Orange Order. They're a supremacist organisation that excludes any Catholics from being members of their organisation. They're Pro-British. They support the state. And they're loyal to the British crown.
The area we live in, Ardoyne, approximately seventy-eight thousand people live in this area. It's one hundred percent Catholic, Nationalist and/or Republican. For generations now, we've had Loyal Order parade after Loyal Order parade traipsing through this area, trampling over the rights of residents. We freely agreed in 1998 and stipulated that everyone had the right to leave free from sectarian harassment and intimidation. This right is totally negated in Ardoyne.
We have over ten contentious parades every year. We have two applied for every year on the Twelfth of July. Last year was the first year that the evening parade was not allowed to come back. It's the belief of most people in this area that that's a direct response to the campaign that the Greater Ardoyne Residents Collective have run since 2010.
We had peaceful sit-down protests in 2010 where we sat in the road and blocked it and we were physically removed by the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) and twenty-seven people were convicted, including myself who went to gaol for refusing to pay the fine that I got ... along with other people who went to gaol.
In 2011 and 2012, we had two massive counter-demonstrations. The 2012 one was considerably larger – the 2011 one had eight hundred people – and in 2012 we had two and a half thousand residents who took to the streets at part of the route that this sectarian parade would take place basically reclaiming the streets in their own community. The Parades Commission then responded by banning the parade in 2013 in the evening and has done the same this year.
And this morning's parade we had a heavy military police in the area - hundreds of armed PSNI officers, over fifty Jeeps. We had a lodge that is not from North Belfast forced through the community. We had a Loyalist flute band which is located around twelve miles away, based around twelve miles away from Ardoyne, again not local, being forced through the community, trampling over the rights of residents. We have stated time and time again under the recent survey ninety percent of the residents validated GARC's analysis by stating that no sectarian parade through this community is acceptable.
JM: Well, Dee, I was listening on RTÉ during the week and they had a spokesperson for the Orange Order. And he was saying that this is no different, what they're doing, as having a féile or a céilí anywhere in The Six Counties. Then he was saying: That was part of the tradition of the Catholic or the Republican areas, having a féile, and he was saying you wouldn't believe how much traffic that has to be done around that. And he was equating that, of playing Irish traditional music, with using bonfires and putting up a poster of Anna Lo, who's an elected representative from China in The Six Counties, with a sign next to her poster saying that she ate their dog. And they're saying that that is part of their Protestant tradition and that they should be allowed to do it just like you would want to have a feis in Ardoyne.
DF: Yeah. Part of their culture is, as I said, it's about being supremacist and about being better than Catholics. Within Loyalism, which is more broad than simply the Loyal Orders, there is an inherent sense of racism. There's a sense that they are better than everyone else. I would say almost a hundred percent of any racist attacks in Belfast specifically would occur in Loyalist areas. Immigrants are constantly under attack from Loyalists and they're facing the same sort of discrimination from Loyalists and Unionists that we would have seen in the past and continue to see facing Catholics, Nationalists and Republicans.
Their bonfires are a disgrace. I mean, it may come as a surprise to listeners that are being told what we've just said, that these bonfires are largely publicly funded. To have my own election posters being put on it, to have effigies of myself being burnt up on fires last night. The same goes for other Nationalist representatives and Republicans.
Anna Lo is being targeted simply because she's of Chinese descent and she's a member of the Alliance Party, a party in my opinion that is actually a unionist party that support the continuation of partition and the continuation of the occupation of The Six Counties. Anna Lo, on a personal level, has said that she would favour a united Ireland in the future and that's another reason why she's being targeted.
There's absolutely no equivalence between the Irish tradition and culture and Loyalist tradition and culture. Irish culture is what it is – it's inclusive of all the people of the nation. It is not religious. It's a part of our national heritage. And it is open to Protestant to be members. Like the GAA. Protestants have become presidents of the GAA. For example, Protestants are involved in Irish dancing, the Irish language is open to all. We have Irish language classes now in East Belfast on the Newtownards Road in a centre run by a member of David Ervine's family who's a former leader of the PUP who has passed away. So there's absolutely no equivalence between these typical bands' blood and thunder, racist, sectarian ideology of the Loyal Orders and their followers and Irish tradition and culture. In no way, shape or form can any equivalent be drawn between our rich cultural heritage and that of a sectarian organisation with anti-Catholicism central to its ethos.
JM: And Dee, it is amazing that you as a taxpayer in Ardoyne have to subsidise some of these bonfires that go around and that they're going to put a poster, an election poster of you and an effigy of you and burn you on that that you have to contribute towards that and all the other politicians that are being burned on that. And then to have someone come on the radio, on the BBC like the Stephen Nolan Show, and saying that this is a proud part of our Protestant tradition and that the Republicans or Nationalists are trying to stop them from this tradition.
DF: Well, the costs of bonfires and the contribution from the rate payer in Belfast, Newtownabbey and various councils right across The Six Counties is an absolute disgrace. It is minimal in comparison to the total cost of other issues in relation to these Loyal Orders parades. The determination banning them from proceeding through Ardoyne in 2013 saw the Orange Order and the UVF set up a hate camp on the interface, Camp Twadell. And it has cost over ten million pounds to police that and the associated daily parade that takes place to that camp site. Ten million pounds! That could be spent on education, on health, on front line services and it's being diverted away from that in order to facilitate basically an organisation that right across The Six Counties only has only thirty thousand members out of a population of around one point eight million.
The public's fed up with these parades - the massive security operation - the clean up operation. I mean if anyone cares to go onto Facebook you'll see the state that Belfast city centre's been left in now. City Council cleansing staff are going to have to now work right throughout the night in order to clean Belfast and make it presentable again. The people that attend these parades do so with carryage, which would be alcohol - actually alcohol, the drugs. And their paraphernalia and their waste is just strewn right across Belfast City Centre. And that all has to be paid for, all has to be cleaned, all has to be collected.
What we would be saying, in terms of Ardoyne is that, the Loyal Orders, as much as people here, whether they're Nationalist or Republican, would oppose the ethos of the organisation, that they have their right to express their culture and heritage. But that right has to be where they're welcome. People in this area do not want to see Loyal Orders coming through our community with banners commemorating murderers of people from this community. With Loyalist flags, with Loyalist paramilitary paraphernalia, with Loyalist paramilitary flags, badges, sayings on their drums, playing sectarian tunes.
And of course, historically this area has suffered at the hands of Loyalism in this state. Over a hundred people in this community were killed by the state by Loyalists who were in collusion with this state. Over thirty people in this area were killed by the UFV and the UVA with weapons that were imported by a British agent, Brian Nelson, in the mid-80's through collusion. So all of that means that historically, people in this area are totally opposed to the Loyal Orders and everything they represent.
The Loyal Orders continually try use this argument: That it's a main arterial route. That there's no where else to go. That it's shared space. Yet many of the same people that are demanding to walk through this community with their bigotry are the same people that were attacking school children, school girls in this area as they tried to make their way to Holy Cross Girls Primary School and were were involved in the “black hate” - they threw urine, they threw pornography and in one case they threw bombs at young girls, aged only eleven, making their way to school. It just can't go on. The alternative route's there.
It's a route that would take the Loyal Orders through one hundred percent Unionist communities. It would take them on to their destination where they're going in a shorter amount of time and via a shorter distance. The cost of upgrading that route would be in the thousands, in the low thousands, to make it viable for parading. And it would be less one percent of the cost of policing last year's determination which as I said cost ten million.
When you draw on the flag protests we've seen across Loyalism in relation to the Union Jack being removed and flown on designated days at Belfast City Hall - that went up to fifty-five million pounds. Loyalism just needs to get real.
JM: Well, Dee...Dee...we thank you for coming on and we'll go to you from time to time throughout the Summer because we also know this is not the end of it. So thank you for coming on.
DF: No problem. We refuse to tolerate the intolerable and we continue our struggle to stop Orange parades coming within our community. Thanks very much, John, for having me on. Thanks.
(ends 1:26 PM )
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