Guest writer Tain Bo with his thoughts on the Boston College controversy.
There appears to be a factor lacking in this Boston College debate. It seems the college gets excused as they folded without as much as a second breath. Though let’s keep them out of the equation as that might upset the latest war drum banging from the party of peace SF.
SF or at least those who regurgitate the term ‘tout’ are with intent fear mongering. A while back it was Bangers leading the charge with his piss poor article The Making of a Tout. And now Adams has spoken and the minions run rampant in their typical have a go at anyone or thing that is remotely not in line with SF policy.
The sideshow of having a rattle at the project is diverting eyes away from the royal dinner. Typical hypocrisy as they bash the Belfast Project and froth at the mouth to hype and attend the bash at Winsor Castle. And why not? After all the leaders are all such respectful peace loving people who wouldn’t harm a fly. That is unless you don’t follow their confusing logic of pro-British rule republicanism.
It might arise as a surprise but the peace process made it possible for the Belfast Project to work. Those interviewed took a far greater risk when they were actively fighting the crown forces. Adams taking a swipe at these people, insulting their integrity and intelligence, didn’t have a problem when the same people were engaging the Brits.
The Shite Factory churning out more pro-British claptrap in another display of self-serving interest. The party has gone from banging bin lids to just being bin lids. Let’s compare assurances given to volunteers: you might get killed, you might get a good run of 6 months, you are almost guaranteed to serve hard time.
Now Adams has a problem with the people who sacrificed so much without whom he would probably still be pulling pints instead of pulling shrewd moves.
Now that the legal battle is over the project seems to be growing many different lives. The hindsight assurances and self interest talk is not a great issue or at least not worth revisiting as the answer would be if it was going to end up on the Brits table there would have been no project.
Republicanism has weathered worse storms and the latest hype over it reminds me of the first supergrass panic that soon became routine.
Rather than jump on the speculation wagon or even become critical of the project I believe as republicans we should weigh up the right for those interviewed to explain their part in the conflict.
It is in my opinion a worthy idea, one that was sabotaged by the very people entrusted with it. In the end game Boston College failed academia miserably and rather than protect the confidentiality of the project they, like Adams, jumped the gun and were more than willing to cooperate and save the face of the college and to hell with the ramifications that would come. After all Belfast is a world away.
I have been following this from the word go and cannot find a solid reason to condemn or be critical as I can only respect the integrity of those involved we would be fooling ourselves if we think that the British are finished prosecuting the past with or without the project.
SF should stick with playing appeasement politicians on the hill and keep telling people to spy on others - the rule of hypocrisy. It seems SF is not content as they continue their private war with anti-treaty-republicans.
I would be impressed if I got to read one article from SF that could convince me the project was ill-conceived. I should be more generous and make that one paragraph as to date all they blabber out is ‘tout’ which coming from SF adds up to apes beating their chests, posturing as staunch republicans.
It would be unreasonable to be critical of Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price, unquestionably dedicated republicans. Why would I believe Adams spin when he attacks all of those involved in the project, the same hypocrite that made sure he attended Brendan Hughes’ funeral?
The SF concern is not about republicanism. It’s blatantly about SF. Whilst they are busy kissing the arse of their queen they always find time to attack anything that is not SF stamped.
It’s a storm that will pass and republicanism might actually benefit from it rather than fear it.
Unfortunately and regretfully the legal battle was lost. Boston College’s betrayal was a gift for the PSNI backed by SF.
So why pay attention to their mouthing of rubbish on this issue? Republicans need to stand behind those whose integrity during the conflict earned them the right to speak freely. Why support the party that only presents its own narrative?
Life doesn’t come with guarantees’ it’s pretty much a gamble. I believe the Project was a genuine recording of part of the conflicts history.
On this one I stand with Anthony and all those involved. Republicanism needs to stop reeling every time the wind blows and remember it was once strong and in time can regain that strength.
SF can dictate to their followers but they can’t dictate republicanism. Oppose SF not the truth.
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well said tain. what depresses me is the leadership-for-life have or seem to have taken so many people our age group (ie old enough to know better) with them on this. im wondering what is the reason for this. amnesia? fear? northern bank money? maybe some of our old friends and comrades never were republicans in the first place? one things for sure i will let them know what i think of them when they come banging on my door soon looking for the vote and i never thought id ever be one of those people whod be giving canvassers grief and definitely not sf! im beginning to believe adams mcguinnes morrison and a hole load of them never had a republican bone in their bodies and are totally driven by ego and control freakery. ive no doubt in my mind anthony and others involved will be completely vindicated. i said this before in gest but im not so sure im joking anymore - i hope ivor bell turns supergrass. luv to see mcguinness banged up eating gruel instead of dining with germanic-transylvanian royalty. what does that say about me. dont answer.
ReplyDeleteGood article, I think it's a valid point that maybe as republicans we worry to much about what we shouldn't do rather than what we should.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Adams and co go, maybe it's time we payed them less heed and treated them with the contempt they deserve. I think this royal diner will do them a lot more harm than they think, finally i think it could be a step to far for a lot of people, that,s just my experience from conversations i have had.
This project is imperative to keep true republicanism alive and relevant. I must admit some times i thought maybe this isn't worth the hassle i.e arrests and all the rest of it but on reflection silence only benefits the enemies of republicanism. We can't have a conversation if nobody speaks.
The project was a form of truth commission -albeit disclosure of truth was supposed to be dependent upon the contributors death. Nevertheless, it was active and working even if only some former paramilitaries on both sides actually contributed to it.
ReplyDeleteIn contrast:
SF/Unionists/security forces/Brit Government have done nothing but seek to undermine the project for their own interests.
SF/Unionists/security forces/Brit Government have not delivered victims any viable alternative, rather, they have done the opposite and are actively working to close down and silence any other 'combatants' from detailing their role in the conflict.
in reply to David and his comments on the Sinn Fein attendance at the royal dinner party - eurofree3.wordpress.com has just published a video of the welcome extended to the irish president
ReplyDeleteMorrison says in his interview with LMFM in relation to Anthony and others "What these people rely on is overwhelming you with detail"
ReplyDeleteSo warped has the PSF worldview become it is a deadly sin to them to deal in details/facts/ the truth.
The message of Irish Republicanism rings strong and true. Details will always shine a light on the rank poison at the heart of the 6 county state
Details like in the past 18 months a young boy was detained by the RUC/PSNI returning from hurling training in West Belfast for being in possession of a hurl, recent weeks have seen a court case highlighting that a man was arrested by the same RUC/PSNI detained and brought before the courts for giving his name in Irish
Only today there is talk of one of the biggest 3rd level institutions in the 6 counties banning the wearing of GAA jerseys.
Not everyone can be bought by a Clonard Residents Association type deal.
For some their outstanding bravery means that they can never be a resident of Belfast again or anywhere else in the 6 counties for that matter.
Shite Factory Táin Bó?
ReplyDeletePlease ... Marm, we are informed, ... would prefer you refrained from such crudity ... in future correspondence please be so kind and only refer to my loyal subjects in SF as those in the Sewerage Facility !!!!
Henry Joy,
ReplyDeleteas a ruffian and urchin I forget my manners when addressing royalty perhaps when McGuiness returns he can pen and article of how to behave in the presence or royalty.
Though I do like how you classed up the Shite Factory to the more respectable Sewerage Facility careful SF scouts might try and recruit you for some PR work.
David,
ReplyDeletenot to worry Morrison is overwhelmed when he gets a toy in a Lucky Bag.
His fear of details probably stems from being caught out in their spin on the Hunger Strike,
Morrison likes to talk buckegitery I almost feel sorry for him having to deal with details.
Other notable detail gatherers would be MI5 who SF now with a religious conviction tell people to pass on details about anti-SF-republicans.
Morrison should steer clear of academics as they go overboard with details. I am taking a stab in the dark and would say Morrison avoids the Boston College Subpoena site as that is extremely detail oriented though I have never felt overwhelmed reading through it.
Details can add up to truths something that Morrison and his cohorts have an unhealthy fear of.
In their world SF are the truth and that is the only detail people should be paying attention to.
I wouldn’t place any faith in SF condemning the PSNI for harassing people instead they mimic it as they have no issue with harassing and smearing republicans.
As for listening to anything Morrison has to say watching paint dry would be more interesting.
Tiarna,
ReplyDelete“SF/Unionists/security forces/Brit Government have done nothing but seek to undermine the project for their own interests.”
I think that sums it up as all of the above talk about a truth commission but as with anything in the 6 counties the truth is different in every camp.
The project was a working model and perhaps that put a lot of noses out of joint.
One of those how dare the ordinary folk put a much needed historical project together without the approval of those in office.
It took a lot of courage to put it together and a lot of courage for those who give interviews and now after all the self-serving maneuverings it appears silence is preferred over truth.
David Higgins,
ReplyDeleteI think anti-treaty-republicans have in some respect accepted being a republican minority voiceless on the peripheral making the mistake that we still view SF as a republican party.
SF plays the republican card when it suits their purpose even though they have been reinventing the party selling an utterly different brand of republicanism.
The fatal flaw in Adams, Bangers, Campbell and Mary Lou along with anyone else pushing the tout angle is worthless and I will be fair and include Fido barking out the same nonsense a while back on behalf of his owners.
If these people were touts then why did they not take advantage of it during the conflict after all getting themselves a handler and a few quid as well as little or no jail time would have saved them and their families a great deal of hardship.
The opposite is fact as they kept quiet done their time and no bones about it remained loyal to the RM.
Certainly the questions should be asked is it worth it with possible arrests, intimidation and fear mongering if we remain within the initial context of the project then the answer is yes.
Unfortunately SF have and keep attempting to distort the project they know this is not a collective of informers.
That angle is ridiculously absurd even by SFs ever lowering standards if Anthony had remained aligned with SF along with others this would not be an issue.
The crime he and others committed was to be critical of SF and that puts people into the unforgiveable category.
Even if the project was nonexistent the British are far from done with prosecuting the past and more intent on dismantling republicanism not just militant republicanism. The Good Friday Agreement didn’t mean they are done if they were there would be no MI5 spy factory and no military style police force.
As I said republicanism has suffered worse if you read Nuala’s excellent article on burning Long Kesh that is a great example of republican resilience.
On this issue it comes down to who is more believable the party who insist people spy for the security forces and toast the Queen as her wee favourite narcissistic tune plays or the former volunteers fought the Queens Security Forces.
I believe the wiser and more reasonable people would have a greater distain for SF and the McGuiness monumental treachery.
The only parallel between SF and the Belfast Project is the project was sabotaged and dragged through the courts in a long drawn out battle to hold onto the tapes were SF engaged in a long drawn out deception and sabotaged Irish Republicanism.
Grouch,
ReplyDeleteI think it is a case of SF has the power and money by power I mean the false power in republican circles even though it almost impossible to say SF and republican in the true sense of principled Irish republicanism.
Martin McGuiness dressed up like a lost penguin doing what the arse kissers do best making a formal apology to the Queen for 800 years of Irish resistance.
I am not sure the cliché works old enough to know better it seems like we have learned nothing from British oppression.
You are on the money with control freakery and ego as the party seems to have visions of grandeur a united Ireland would only interfere with their plan that is to be the largest republican-non-republican party on the Island.
Her Majesties loyalists will probably not be playing God Save the Queen so loud this year and should be worried about what shift deal is in the works as that one had to be a right kick in the loyal orange nuts. The thanks they get for being loyal to the upper class.
All that says about you Grouch is you are fed up and disgusted with the lot SF can sink their own ship as for anyone who runs afoul of the treacherous SF I can only wish them well and repeat my new mantra oppose SF not the truth.
A good read.
ReplyDeleteSooner rather than later SF will be treated with the contempt they deserve. I have come to the conclusion the Liam Adams scandal will be the slow undoing of their support base along with ever increasing and amicable ties between London and Dublin, which may in turn boost the SDLP as the 1985 Anglo Irish Agreement intended. People in SF now are generally young 'political yuppies' who see SF candidacy as a safe bet for a wee council job for life.
The moral fibre and character of them is exposed by the Liam Adams issue. Had there been any doubt of his guilt then it would have been natural to refrain from judging or being harsh in criticism on the matter. Lie detector tests are in my opinion a desirable first option in such cases. Put up or shut up, as it were. In Liam's case Gerry and the RUC were aware of his antics since the 1980s, we know that as FACT. Gerry promoted him and moved him around different areas as a head honcho. We know that as FACT in spite of the trail of lies Gerry told after the scandal broke.
The point I'm making is that those in SF today if strapped to a lie detector could answer these two questions.
Q. Do you like paedophiles and sex offenders?
A. No!
Q. Is there any reason for you to be unhappy with Gerry Adams as SF leader?
A. No!!
AND THEY'S PASS THE TEST!!
That's what you are dealing with when talking about SF
When they come to my door I'll say two words. 'Liam Adams' and my facial expression will tell them all they need to know. SHAMELESS and GUTLESS they are. Or perhaps CAREERIST is a better description.
Tain Bo,
ReplyDeleteI watched Mc Guinness the other night sickeningly declare that he would, 'never break with the IRA code'
In the background his supporters yelled and cheered.
In in his own head he was drawing a distinction between himself and those who made the tapes as were his supporters.
Two nights ago I went on a Sinn Fein site to read 'unbowed and unbroken' this time the reference was to Mc Guinness meeting the Queen.
I went on and wrote a few comments. Some shinners defended his stance and I provided a counter argument.
One hour later the entire post was taken down!
That's how they view free speech and that's how the view anything and anyone who tells the truth.
Mc Guinness has trashed the Green Book in its entirety, yet he stood in front of the camera gloating and the baa, baas provided a back up chorus.
Good post Tain bo a cara as usual,it is without doubt that the Boston history project was a worthy and noble effort to establish a truthful account of the dirty war that took place here and the inclusion of loyalists was essential to giving this project credibility, it would have been imo unrivaled had the spooks and their agents given their side ,but then realism kicks in and that wasnt going to happen, the gump about a new beginning was just that pure gump,we are still in the same shit hole we were in pre 69 no change worth a fuck,this project was doomed from the beginning because it tried to unravel and make sense through the eyes of participants what really happened here,and that involved telling the truth,and as we all know the truth hurts ,therefore those with the most to hide have been the most vocal in opposition to this project and loudest of all is quisling $inn £eind ,what happened here needs to be told and it must never be allowed to be controlled /censored by either or both the spooks and quisling $inn £eind,we,ve had enough bullshit over the years.the Boston tapes were inspirational and ahead of their time, democrats made a mistake in allowing them to become part of political intrigue.
ReplyDeleteNuala,
ReplyDeleteYou are a lot braver than me I can’t abide listening to any of them it is painful enough trying to read their poison.
McGuiness the posturing penguin of course he would never break with the IRA code it was his solid silence that gained him an invitation to dinner with the Queen.
Obviously he is telling the truth as he wouldn’t break the code in public but had more than a hand in decimating it in private and of course the nodding donkeys cheered him on.
If there is a clear distinction between him and those interviewed it would be they told their truth and the penguin true to SF form manipulates and spins yarns and outright lies.
The more distinguishing characteristic between Marty and the interviewees being they never altered their course unlike the penguin who in order to get an invite must have made some serious concessions and guarantees that he and the other liars can keep the republican community in check and will go to any length to promote and keep their queens peace.
I am surprised they even let you post sounds like one of the administrators was asleep at the wheel.
I am not surprised when they twigged on that the post was pulled. When they say free speech it only counts if you are freely supporting their view if you dare oppose it then it is standard censorship time.
It is a big secret there was the standard version of the Green Book and then the special version for the chosen ones which basically reads “wing it and make it up as you go along” shout Tiocfaidh Ar La and wait for the cheers.
It is a sorry state of affairs that this is what passes for the crème de la crème of modern day republicanism even worse people still hang on every word.
Things were rough during the conflict contending with the Brits, unionists, loyalists now that pales in comparison to contending with SF who go to great extremes to outdo the rest.
If only Marty had the character and integrity of anyone of the interviewees then he might be worth listening to.
Tain I've been shunned for a very long time by those in the Sewer Facility ... McGirl sent an emissary In the late eighties asking me to stand in the forthcoming elections ... Truth told I had been confused ... and fence sitting post Mansion House debacle of '86.
ReplyDeleteIt was only after much soul searching I declined their offer ... and fell in again alongside O'Bradaigh.
Tain Bo,
ReplyDeleteIt happened by accident MH had the post on FB and when I clicked on it brought up the site.
It was mostly stuff from people in the Sinn Fein Cumann falling in behind him.
Larry had said Mc Guinness looked like Frank Spencer in his trench coat and beret, so I wrote that just for a laugh.
For a while it was a reasonably amicable exchange. Then I pointed out that, in reality they should be arguing that as a minister who deploys British rule and adheres to partition he is entitled to sit at he majesty's table and it all kicked off.
They removed everything the initial Sinn Fein post and all comments. Childish yes, but menacing also.
Marty,
ReplyDeleteunlike bangers who knows it all I have studied the ins and outs of the project over the years and although it is now being used as a tool for bashing those involved especially from SF exercising their right to talk nonsense which seems to be endless with their intermittent lulls and then when the chance arises they come out swinging or I should say flopping.
Rather than showing support for Ivor Bell they decided in their infinite wisdom to add him to their growing list of people to smear this is what they have reduced their twisted brand of republicanism to. Bangers et al are not so confused with details when it comes to intimidating people and using the word tout they have to bite their lip and can’t finish the sentence that follows tout.
I asked Bangers a while back to define tout asking him to pen one of his insufferable articles on the issue in the safety of his closed off no comments blog.
Still waiting on his definition but think I have a better chance of getting an invite to wash the dishes after one of the royal dinners.
The flak coming from SF quarters seemed a wee bit heavier than normal which was not surprising since the penguin was getting ready to go and make amends with the queen naturally they had to bang the war drums to prove they are still hard-line republicans which by now is only fooling their supporters.
Over the years I have been looking for a decent argument against the project but have yet to find one.
I think you have it right Marty, as the truth is something SF get creative with and manage to turn lies into their form of truth.
The unnecessary paranoia coming from them has nothing to do with defending republicanism but more to do with defending the corrupt party leadership.
Rather than sit back and listen to their lies I thought it is important enough to tell them that we are not all fools and a lot of people support Anthony on the issue of the project.
The more they attempt to discredit it they only end up validating it. As far as Para militarism goes it was a healthy academic exercise that only asked one thing of all involved and that was to give a truthful and as accurate account of what they remember.
I think you nailed it as unfortunately it was ahead of its time but saying that we should stand by those involved and continue to challenge SF who like the Brits would prefer to keep the dirty war as secret as possible.
Larry,
ReplyDeleteI doubt the Liam Adams caper will unhinge supporters considering they still follow the leader and once he is freed the SF spin will be he has served his debt to society and is now a reformed character.
I am fairly sure his brother will make sure that he is well looked after and will find him gainful employment amongst the ranks of the corrupted.
I think more pressing issues will arise after Marty the penguin returns as I have a sneaking suspicion that whatever dirty deals were cut during his visit won’t be to long before they are implemented after his return.
It would be nice to think this was just the rare invite from her majesty to natter about old times but the pleasantries aside I think we can be sure that harder times lay ahead for the north.
The good news is SF are bound to lose support over the visit but of course that will be covered up as it is in the Brits best interest to keep propping SF up.
We can expect the cheerleaders to keep the charade up but hopefully sooner rather than later the people will have had enough and like her majesty will announce we are not amused.
TainBo
ReplyDeleteI got the impression it was not the Sinn Fein Cumann who pulled the posts but higher up!
A few years ago young people from orga Sinn Fein called and asked me to write a piece for them in relation to the loss of status in the prison.
I done it for them! On the night Sidney Walsh would not let it be read out. Saying it, 'was not quite what they wanted'
The event had been held in Clonard my lifetime home and here was this Sinn Fein member who appeared in our area twice during the war, now telling members of the Republican Movement in Clonard what they could write and not write.
The kids in Ogra thanked me for helping them.
Got a laugh though! They told me a young member of Ogra Sinn Fein on the night someone asked Walsh had he been in gaol with Michael Collins? Lol
Henry JoY,
ReplyDeleteI don’t think you were alone in fence sitting the way it was all engineered made it difficult to figure out what exactly was going on.
As for being shunned you are in good company I think it is the soul searching that forces us to arrive at the honest conclusion.
In my opinion you made the right decision as it seems once we enter into the sewer of SF there is only one way out and that is to hope for a flood that temporarily cleans out the waste.
Nuala,
ReplyDeleteI should have guessed our very own Mickey was in the mix.
Have to admit the Frank Spencer bit is funny but I see a dose of the truth didn’t sit well. He is after all a British minister and approves of partition that along with all his underhandedness guaranteed him a seat with the elite although the one photo I seen he looks like he should be collecting coats as he looks so confused and out of place.
On the Brightside I am sure the highbrow enjoyed trying to figure out if he was a guest or a confused member of the royal staff.
Breaking the eleventh commandment guarantees the thread would be pulled.
SF approved censorship but at least you got to hurt their feelings.
Nuala,
ReplyDeletewithout doubt it would be a higher up who decides what is fit for the youngsters to read.
No good deed goes unpunished and more insulting for him to decide it is not what they wanted meaning it is not what SF upper echelon wants.
I am not surprised as SF has a habit of bullying and dictating you would think a piece on the loss of status would be something worth hearing.
If it was half as interesting as your recent article then the youngsters missed out.
I think Grouch nailed it with his control, freakery, ego comment as that is what it essentially has become SF striding to ensure only their skewed narrative is the only version of our history.
Other people have told me the same thing where threads have been pulled and disappeared because someone didn’t approve of the anti-SF sentiment.
Which is just stupidity as they can’t deal with some minor flak they would probably have a meltdown if they had to face some serious criticism.
That is hilarious asking if he done time with Collins the best part is the kid was probably being serious.
SF need to wise up educating the youngsters is one thing but brainwashing them and deciding what they can or cannot hear is just ridiculous.
Tain Bo!
ReplyDeleteMH is promoting his commander in chief to all who will listen.
I genuinely went on to read what they were writing and to post a few comments, quite tame ones, I thought and they even seemed to see the funny side of the Frank Spencer comment.
One asked, had I a problem with peace?
I talked about justice and secret courts etc and it was all going rather swimmingly until I suggested the alternative argument that they should be using, which was, Deputy McGuinness was entitled to be seated with Liz as a Minister of the crown.
Anyway they took Frank Spencer down and that was how it all ended, Shame! because some of the crap they were plying was so funny.
Nuala,
ReplyDeleteWhat else would Mickey be doing in fact he would be lost without his idol.
Come to think of it we are a selfish lot instead of praising the leader for leading us into a greater mess we rubbish him and his faithful faultless cronies.
You might get accused of accusing SF of having a sense of humour after all now they are in agreement with secret courts and injustice number two should be entitled to sit with their queen.
I can understand the Irish head of state visiting in that capacity but don’t understand why number 2 an avowed republican didn’t do the polite thing and say thanks but no thanks which only adds up to the dinner being the public sideshow and his presence there is for more dirty dealings.
Tain Bo,
ReplyDeleteEvery year the English Republicans protest against the monarchy.
They gather at official opening days and protest quietly about the parasite nature of the established monarchy and how this establishment drains taxpayers of their money all year round.
What must those people think when they see a so called Irish Republican seat himself as a guest at her banquet.
Surely, knowing his history they view it as double treachery?
'I can understand the Irish head of state visiting in that capacity but don’t understand why number 2 an avowed republican didn’t do the polite thing and say thanks but no thanks which only adds up to the dinner being the public sideshow and his presence there is for more dirty dealings'.
ReplyDeleteAddiction to electioneering and photo ops is what drives them. Nothing else. Publicity error of staying away from Queens visit here meant being side-lined. That must have near killed them missing out!
yes f perry, they probably crack jokes about us, we are living in strange times and im trying to keep the head together lately. "We will lead you to the republic" - mcguinness parting shot at 86 ard fheis. God be with ruairi.
ReplyDeleteNuala,
ReplyDeleteit goes beyond treachery I see the Lord Mayor is now packing his bags and on his way to visit the queen.
The same lines they are promoting peace and a greater acceptance of unionism.
These people have the gall to call people touts and then go begging for support from the British in order to keep control.
I listened to bangers on the Nolan show I think he danced about unable to answer a strait question.
One funny remark he made was he said he is not a representative of the RM. I thought what RM is he talking about unless he means the BRM as the British control republicanism.
Painful to the ears but I can see why Mickey talks in riddles.
On a funny note Lord Nesbit had a bit of backhanded encouragement for militant dissidents hoping they give McGuiness his just reward.
Confusing times with SF kissing their queens arse and a lord cheering on militant dissidents SF done the usual moaning about it.