Screw With A Conscience

If true, the allegations could not be more disturbing. We have seen a debate over pharmacies and religious organizations opposed to supplying contraceptives. However, this is a state employee with a woman who is in custody. Had she given birth, it would have created a bizarre “wrongful birth” case where the defendant is the state. Even without a birth, if these allegations are true, this woman was put through a harrowing experience - Jonathan Turley

Most people who have been through jail have met the type: a born again Christian screw prattling on about Jesus, being saved, hellfire and the like. Crow like, their droppings are to be found in a range of locations: silly Christian mini comics replete with images of hell and guys called Lucifer. The ones with a good memory are the worst: they can quote line and verse from the bible as if it has some special otherworldly properties that they, the elect, know something about and must share with we plebs, solicited or not.  The thought of them, or anybody else for that matter, being the recipeint of divinely reveal truths, is laughable. And they always love the Book of Revelations with all its violence. That seems to be their favourite. It helps their sense of sadism achieve fulfilment, the thought that somebody else might writhe in agony for ever. Nice people so long as they don't live next door to you.

Most people, even their own sacrilegious colleagues, viewed them as bores to be avoided. Many screws, like the rest of us, like to either chase skirt, watch soccer, do the garden, drink beer, anything other than go to bible class to hear how Jesus loves them so much he wants to see them burn in hell if the love goes unrequited.  Rarely would the companionship of the godly have been sought out. Let’s face it: who wants to listen to sanctimonious preaching and pontificating finger wagging from gayhaters and misogynists? They never seem motivated by that elusive thing termed Christian love, forever being in search of things to hate.

Give that type of person authority and they tend to think they can use it to inflict a different type of authority: that of their own religious opinion. The case of a Tampa rape victim underscores the point. Thus far identified only as RW, she was raped in January 2007. Treated at the Rape Crisis Centre she was given two morning-after pills, one to be taken immediately and the second 12 hours later. She then reported the assault to the police. The cops ran her details through the system and discovered that there was a warrant out for her arrest for some misdemeanour or other.

When sent to the local jail one of the screws there, Michele Spinelli, confiscated her second pill on the grounds that it was against Spinelli’s, not RW’s, conscience and religious beliefs.  Spinelli told R.W. that 'she would not give her the pill approved by a doctor because she viewed them to be a sin.’

Spinelli wasn’t even acting within the bounds of official prison policy. She chose to bypass that, believing somehow that armed with her religious opinion she had the right to strike others down if they did not share the same outlook as herself.  The only reason of course that Spinelli was able to abuse RW was because of her position as a prison guard. She had the authority and the power within her job and she abused it to the detriment of a rape victim, bringing 'to light' how those who are "in charge" when it comes to dispensing are able to inflict their own moral beliefs onto someone else.'

RW’s confinement denied her the ability to search for an alternative. This exposed the woman prisoner to the risk of a pregnancy she did not want, did not solicit. Although she did not end up pregnant had she done so as a result of being denied the contraception that would have afforded her rapist the right to force her to carry for nine months what he unlawfully and forcibly deposited in her body.  Backed by some bunch of clerics he could have demanded that she submit to his will. And she would have no rights at all. Horrendous.

Screws like anyone else in society are fully entitled to hold whatever beliefs they want. What they cannot be allowed to do is impose those views on others who do not hold them. The screws role is a custodial not a theocratic function.  If the screw is opposed to contraceptive it is her absolute right not to take it. She should never be compelled to do so. At the same time she has no right to deny it to another woman.
The rape victim has filed an action against the prison system and a Florida U.S. District Judge Elizabeth Kovachevich accepted that she had a right to do so.

Religious intolerance should never be rewarded with jobs in society where it can then use them to its own end and to discriminate against others. These people are not fit for purpose. Spinelli’s religious opinion is her own not her victim’s. John Bunyan, author of The Pilgrim's Progress, spotted the type way back in the 1600s when he said they ‘make the exercise of religion their pretence to cover their wickedness.’ If a religious opinion is such that a person feels they can’t perform the work then they should not be in the post. Get a job as a preacher with the rest of the cranks.

162 comments:

  1. I hope RW gets a ton of compo and that bastard Spinelli gets sacked,then we take a look at our own home grown variety from Mc Causland and his creationism crap,Paisley,Mc Crea and the god fearing boys and girls in the lol,those in the Catholic church who destroyed so many,religion as you have rightly said Anthony is a personal opinion,and should be kept and exercised just as that,a lecture from those bastards is like Mc Donalds and KFC promoting healthy eating....

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  2. Marty,

    these people have no mandate to teach morals. How could he kitted out like a circus clown have a claim to teach morals?

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  3. Mackers,
    I got one of them in Castlereagh, yes of all places.
    And the cops, branch whatever, all laughed behind his back but that did not help me as I had to stand because he did not allow me to sit and listen to him droning on and on.
    He would always stand behind me, quoting and hissing in my ear, he was vile and an evil bastard.

    Sadly for women, that sort of mindset in not the exclusive territory of born again christians nor even the religious.
    While the religious type draw on their own screwed up morals to control women.
    The secular type control them through their idea of societal expectations.

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  4. Bit of a shocker the whole deal if true... Definitely the RW’s right to choose what to do post rape were violated. She was not pregnant anyway but was counselled post rape to ensure no pregnancy did not occur & offered option of ‘morning after pill’ – went with that option.

    I find it really wierd that the screw forced her own convictions on this woman... I know some Christians do this believing that it is the absolute right thing to do but the reality is every human being has to make their own choices and have their own convictions in matters like this.

    One would think that screening applicants who want to work in prisons & institutions would weed out the ones who are not suitable but then again the role of screws is hardly rocket science is it... Prisons tend to employ a broad spectrum of toerags – the last prison i visited the female screws were so fat they kinda huffed and puffed as they tromped round rattling keys & security cards. Their little glinty eyes glistening with power & self importance embedded in stupid obsese faces was a horror show. I commented to someone about this obesity in female screws & they said it is a protective armour all that fat so the lads don’t rape em Go figure!!

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  5. @ AM re fotos (i took a gander) and so called empowering declarations by any woman re. having an abortion always makes me cringe.

    It is a magnificent illustration of self deception on behalf of the woman to be proud of destroying a life. That is why you won't see many women putting fotos up of their mashed up foetus.

    There is nothing to be proud of - it is tragedy all round. Trying to sanitise abortion and make it palatable is just plain BS. I am NOT saying that abortion should not be available in medical setting as it needs to be as there will always be women who choose abortion.

    I am just stating these declarations are just madness to me. And I had an abortion when i was really young. Heaps of us young at risk kids did - i have never heard any of us illustrate it as something wonderful We rarely mention it as it is neither something to be proud of nor something to promote as clever.

    Abortion is never something light to choose. Lookit here a smashed up foetus in a clinical setting. Ain't i liberated! Total BS.

    I would like all abortion clinics to educate young women with the truth rather than sanitised shit that it is as simple as having some nominal corrective surgical procedure.

    NB Abortion is actually murder of a living being in its formative stages. Deep down most human beings know this. But medical speak like termination kinda assists the mind to glide over what is really going on.

    It angers me the slick propaganda. I would not mind if the truth were told but it is not ever fully told but we women are always told about rights rights rights Yeah its fabulous girls to have a right to rip up a foetus inside your uterus Just fabulous (not)

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  6. Anthony "kitted out like a circus clown" I disagree a cara I think they believe that they have reached Rocket stage hence the pointy hats,and with their tanks filled after many years of being pumped up,when they stretch out their arms some think its the sign of the cross but really its their wings,one good fart they pray and its ignition ,blast off away to virgin alterboy land..

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  7. Marty,

    it just amazes me that somebody dressed up like that can expect to be taken seriously. Imagine that kind telling you not to use a condom, or take the pill, or not to have sex before marriage.

    I go back to the same point: a bishop has no more moral authority than me to prescibe societal mores. And I have no right. All I have is an opinion, just like the bishop.

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  8. I can't believe this vile propaganda about screws - I mean prison officers. In all the prisons I have been to (and that's been quite a few) I have found them to be caring, would never lie, and would never ever use violence against defenseless prisoners. I blame Hollywood for all the bad press they get. After all, they're just doing their jobs, as Martin McG said.

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  9. Anthony they look like walking condoms and they sure are dickheads when they spew out their nonsense..if we were to follow their morals.the place would be one big connected circle....

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  10. SMH,
    With you the whole way on the abortion issue.
    I defend my right to choose, in choosing not to watch something like this video.
    I choose not to because it sounds almost as bad as the religion and anti-religion arguements, as in, fight the myth or the exposition with yet another one.

    Mackers,
    In this case the moralists were religious but in my cases I have heard women experience equally apprenhensible treatment from non and anti-religious people.
    I have witnessed women shamefully sit and join in while women were slagged off by their so called menfolk.
    I have heard women who have passed themselves off as feminists for years engaged in this claptrap about other women.
    Then, they ooh and aah when some religious zealot or fundamentalist openly utters what they internalised and spouted themselves.
    This crap in relation to women angers me a lot more than fairy stories up the causeway and the clothes the chose to tell them in. It angers me because women have been battered, stoned and crucified over this shite.

    Talk like this was met with zero tolerance in the home I grew up in thank God.

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  11. I find it bizarre that though SMH considers abortion to be the "murder of a living being in its formative stages", she still believes it should be "available in medical setting as it needs to be as there will always be women who choose abortion."

    I mean, using SMH's logic, one could argue for the availability of infanticide in a medical setting because there will always be women who want to murder their babies.

    Abortion is either murder or it is not. If abortion is murder, then the practice should be banned. The so-called "right to choose" is not a factor in my view.

    PS. I should also say that since a foetus in the first trimester does not have the capacity to think or feel pain, then I do not believe it ought to have the same rights as a human being.

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  12. Alfie,
    Only a man could come up with that analysis. There is a world of difference between infanticide and abortion. The former is the death of an actual living child the latter is not.
    I don't agree that abortion is murder however, we cannot dismiss the seriousness attached to the issue or dress it up as a less than serious happening and I beleive that is what SMH was trying to convey.
    Women in that context, Alfie women! must mentally and physically walk a very lonely road.
    Women are damned in the face of patriachy if they choose to have children outside of marriage and then they are damned if they get rid off, or in some horrendous and deeply sad cases kill those children.

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  13. Nuala,

    "Only a man could come up with that analysis."

    If I were sexist like you, I might remark that only a woman could be guilty of such muddled thinking as yours. I am not sexist, though, and I believe that men (including myself) are just as prone to irrationality as women.

    Do you consider a foetus to be a human being? If you do, then how can you believe that abortion is not murder? If you don't, then why do you believe that abortion is a "serious happening"?

    "Women are damned in the face of patriachy if they choose to have children outside of marriage and then they are damned if they get rid off, or in some horrendous and deeply sad cases kill those children."

    Apart from loony religious douchebags, many of whom are women, who is doing the damning? I wonder though: is it a "horrendous and deeply sad" case when a father kills his children or is he just another evil patriarch?

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  14. Alfie,
    I think if you were not so muddled you might agree that it is horrendous and deeply sad when anyone kills a child.
    Why you are using the patriachy link with child murder is puzzling as well as muddling?
    I don't believe women who have an abortion commit murder, what you believe on the subject is entirely a matter for yourself.
    Of course it is a serious happening, it can hardly be compared to a walk in the park.
    For many women it is not a decision which is taken lightly, some hopefully get over it and move on, some are purged with guilt, other scorned and not just by 'religious douchebags' and certainly not just by women.
    All my life I have listened to men debating the abortion subject and to be honest with a few exceptions I find it as dreary and as infuriating as listening to the people who never threw a stone debate the armed struggle.

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  15. SMH-how on earth is abortion murder?
    there needs to be legalized abortion in Ireland. abortion clinics on the falls Road would clear up the joyriding, housebreaking, endless crime epidemic that has turned areas like the lower falls into no go zones. I know I will get slammed for this but read Freakonomics and you will understand. Unwanted babies from poor single mothers cause enormous societal problems that all the rest of us must deal with.

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  16. Ryan,

    I suppose we could always sterilise the would be mums and deny them choice altogther. Better still any one we suspect might give birth to a banker we should sterilise her as well.

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  17. Ryan,

    I say this with the greatest disrespect possible;

    Go fuck yourself with that vile eugenics laced turd of an argument that you just spewed onto this discussion.

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  18. SMH,

    On the question of photos, I am of the same view of them as I am of the photos posted by the pro life lobby. Is it to inform or manipulate? I think both can make a claim that it is to inform while each will accuse the other of manipulation.

    I thought the Guardian article by the woman concerned makes all the difference. There is no reason that I can see why she should have desisted from makinging the case from her perspective. The history she outlined creates a context which is worth considering. Plus the fact that she lives in America where the religious right have much greater influence than they have in Europe and presumably Australia, where abortion doctors are sometimes murdered by deranged bigots, where the abortion debate is part of the culture wars, and where Harrville hate type mobs gather outside abortion clinics and women’s centres in a bid to intimidate people.

    ‘It is a magnificent illustration of self deception on behalf of the woman to be proud of destroying a life.’

    I disagree with this entirely just as I disagree with your statement that ‘deep down most human beings know’ it is murder. To criminalise so many women who make decisions for reasons they best understand is in my view utterly wrong. I would never advise my daughter to murder anyone but if she told me she was having an abortion I would say ‘your choice.’ If she said she was going to drown her two year old I would definitely not say ‘your choice.’ I don’t believe that deep down we believe it is murder.

    ‘I am NOT saying that abortion should not be available in medical setting as it needs to be as there will always be women who choose abortion.’

    This confuses me. If it is murder then no medical setting can justify it. Alfie is right on this.

    I did not see this as a celebration of abortion but a statement of how she experienced it, an attempt to justify it in the face of objections (as is her right whatever others might think), and give other women who might feel they need it, the confidence to make a decision, as well as being an attempt to counter an alternative narrative. I don’t think any woman should be made to feel ashamed of having an abortion. It is her choice and if she makes the wrong choice she has to live with it.

    ‘I would like all abortion clinics to educate young women with the truth.’

    Which is?

    I am open to all arguments on it other than religious ones. Pointless anyone telling me what a unicorn or mermaid might think of it. Any ethical or philosophical argument against abortion I am open to.

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  19. Ryan
    maybe they should just stop giving single teenagers who are up the duff priority housing status. They get a wee flat to party in while mammy raises the brat. Not to mention their dole money. The whole thing is screwed up. Excuse the pun. I recon there's an argument for these indisciplins slappers being penalised rather than rewarded. They should be sent to classes and taught to keep their wee panties on!

    Tommy
    you joined the diplomatic corps with John McGirr I see... lmao.

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  20. Nuala,

    "All my life I have listened to men debating the abortion subject and to be honest with a few exceptions I find it as dreary and as infuriating as listening to the people who never threw a stone debate the armed struggle."

    So only women ought to debate abortion and only combatants should debate war? Then I suppose that only members of dissident paramilitary groups may discuss the rights and wrongs of the new armed campaign against the British. Ordinary civilians ought to keep their mouths shut. Hmm...

    "There is a world of difference between infanticide and abortion. The former is the death of an actual living child the latter is not."

    If we are talking about abortion in the first trimester or even the first 20 weeks, then I agree. SMH, however, seems to think that all abortion is murder. That was my point.

    In any event, you never answered my central question: do you consider a foetus to be a human being? I'd appreciate an answer.

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  21. SMH,

    ‘I find it really weird that the screw forced her own convictions on this woman.’

    But it is what they do. They only put on the loving face when stripped of power. The history of religion is replete with evil. A lot of good too but we can hardly deny the evil.

    ‘but the reality is every human being has to make their own choices and have their own convictions in matters like this.’

    But how do you reconcile this with your view that it is murder?

    Nuala,

    I got one too when I was 18. There must be something in the bible about chairs because the bore had me standing for six hours while he ranted about the bible. He never as much heard one word from me. Plenty of yawns and sighs.

    In relation to your response to SMH, either you lost the thread of your argument or I have lost it. I simply don’t know what it is about. ‘I have heard women who have passed themselves off as feminists for years engaged in this claptrap about other women ...’

    Sort of lost me as to what you meant.

    Alfie

    ‘using SMH's logic, one could argue for the availability of infanticide in a medical setting because there will always be women who want to murder their babies. Abortion is either murder or it is not. If abortion is murder, then the practice should be banned.’

    This seems so self evident that there seemed no need to even have to assert it. It is exactly the type of question run thru my mind when SMH commented as she did. For that reason I found Nuala’s comment strange that only a man could come up with that sort of thought. Given what SMH argued it seems impossible for any person thinking about it not to come up with the question posed by you.

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  22. Alfie,
    You are perfectly right to pull me up on the women only, combatant only theme as it does sound quite detached and offensive and I genuinely did not mean to offend you.

    Of course men are entitled to their opinion in relation to abortion, however I do find it off putting to listen to people being judgemental in relation to things which will never impact on them the way it impacts on women.

    To answer your question, no I do not consider a newly formed foetus to be a human being.
    I think there is now a very specific time frame in which these terminatons can take place.
    Outside of that time frame are women guilty of something other than causing pain, even then I don't thinks so no.

    I certainly do not believe the tiny formations have a soul.
    Women who were condemned for aborting children were never provided with a viable alternative.
    Some killed their children to avoid the perputal social stigma or worse the horrors of places like Magdalene.
    Others were forced to place their children in Catholic run orphanages and we all know the sorry disgrace of that one.

    Recently I had the misfortune to run into a Legion of Mary ( I presume )stall in the town.
    Plastic dismembered parts of dead babies were on the table and leaflets highlighting the horror of abortion and I felt sad and sick.

    Sad because it is not an ideal happening for anyone and most women would choose in the ideal world to have the ideal set up and the ideal child.

    Sick because, I wondered how many of them do gooders ever really experienced ordinary women's lives not their own little 'cornflakes family' brand, but real life
    I think for many, many women the walk to and from an abortion clinic will be the saddest and most troubled one they will ever make.

    Mackers,
    What I was trying to say and not too well was, I have heard women who preach feminism being equally scathing of women.
    In relation to how they dress and their so called moral behaviour.
    Where is the so called sisterhood in all of that?
    Then they cry and squeal, if some preacher or fundametalist, comes out with a statement saying women should wear a veil to stop poor men being tempted.

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  23. @LarryH RE ‘They should be sent to classes and taught to keep their wee panties on!’

    Well they used to tar and feather them Larry... parade em because God told em these were the despicable whores pregnant out of wedlock... Now they just tar and feather em a different way... Nary a mention of the males role in the situation... Terrible Jezebels tempting those wholesome, self controlled decent men...

    Often young girls who become pregnant have come from homes where Mum got pregnant young too and often there is generational sorrows and issues within the family structures. It is not all about hot sex, hawking your fork and bludging off the govt....

    Some girls think having a baby will bring love into their lives or give their lives some meaning. Others fall pregnant from lack of protection/ignorance re safe sex and others get pregnant from rape within or outside of a relationship or marriage. Sex workers get raped more frequently than reported and can become pregnant.

    Signed: Once a Dumping Ground for Righteous Men's Semen.

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  24. @ Anthony Sorry bit lengthy but tried to address all of it.

    Re the termination of a foetus & not all abortions are done in the first trimester – it is not a simple, non complex, no risk procedure with absolutely no post procedure detrimental impact risk on the woman/girl. Some women are fine post abortion and some are not. Some grieve years later and some do not. Some experience medical complications & many don’t.

    Because it is such a highly emotive topic one can has to embrace all the facets and where i think pro-lifers err is that they use overtly emotive relay &/or become militant in their views and negate seeing the full picture. The same can be said for those who argue for abortion. It is a minefield out there & i am well aware how emotions can be tweaked with images for or against as mentioned by you Anthony.

    The full picture to me is that NB harm minimisation/harm reduction principles and approach can and should be applied to abortion as they are to addiction issues for example in the provision of medically supervised injecting rooms and so on. The goal being to educate and support non judgementally. Do i believe women should not be able to obtain an abortion within a medical setting and resort to desperate measures and so forth. No i don’t and it is for that reason that there has to be provision for abortions.

    It does not mean however it is not what it is to me – the annihilation aka murder aka knocking off a life. Because to me it is precisely what is going on else why would it be such a contentious issue. They can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people...
    Presenting abortion as a rudimentary, run of the mill, just another medical procedure is a lie point blank.

    Women and young girls deserve to be fully informed and make informed choices knowing all the risks and all the possible outcomes. Counselling must incorporate cultural, religious, non religious beliefs, context, circumstances, medical history and recognise each individual case rather than a one size approach fits all. Clinics need to be monitored for this.

    Abortions are easily obtained in Australia compared to Ireland. Even in the 70’s you just went to Sydney and if u lived in NZ u just got a flight organised for you to go to Sydney by a womans rights org and it was all done.

    As a Christian not affiliated with any denomination, nor affiliated with any pro lifer org etc but as a believer in the Christ – life is formed at conception – DNA, unique features etc It is all ahappening in the foetus hence it is a unique life. To me it is not just a blob of cells but a highly complex structure in formative stage of lst trimester. And as a believer in God i believe each person has a spirit within those cells at conception. Now if you are not a believer in God this is meaningless twaddle but it is real to me & I believe it deeply.

    When all those foetuses were found dumped in a forest in Russia media reported it as a horror show. Yeah it would be – because those little formed faces torso, arms and legs and so on were lives snuffed out. Lump it or leave it – its what i believe & is my truth. I was going to wade into the medical side of it all but there is enough medical info out there for everyone to access if they want to know it.

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  25. Nuala,

    ‘There is a world of difference between infanticide and abortion.’

    I would agree although the religious argument sees no distinction. This was Alfie’s point which you seem to have misinterpreted completely. If SMH thinks abortion is murder then Alfie seems justified to ask what is the ethical difference between murder by infanticide and murder by abortion.

    Alfie

    ‘Do you consider a foetus to be a human being? If you do, then how can you believe that abortion is not murder?’

    The question all must answer.

    ‘Apart from loony religious douchebags, many of whom are women, who is doing the damning?’

    This is the type of question that requires answers. Implicit in it would be my own view. The damning is really only done by the Harryville types who stand outside women’s centres and abortion clinics.

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  26. SMH
    I merely thought the posts were too one sided. So lobbed in an alternative viewpoint. Wee girls and boys need to be educated. Ive heard horror stories of some women in England having countless abortions through convenience/laziness. Young lads being tormented for maintenance and not seeing their kids is another side in it all. As for abortion itself, I don't relly agree with it. But I'm not in a psosition to feel justified in denying it to anyone.

    Signed: totally shocked at your signature!

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  27. When I listen to the crap that comes from Martyboys gob then I cant help thinking there may be circumstances when abortion is perfectly justified.

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  28. Nuala,

    ‘I don't believe women who have an abortion commit murder.’

    I doubt many here do whatever their reservations. But Alfie’s comments merely went into the terminus where SMH’s logic seemed bound to take us.

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  29. marty

    'When I listen to the crap that comes from Martyboys gob then I cant help thinking there may be circumstances when abortion is perfectly justified'

    Heard a whisper he is handing himself in for CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. [Dungiven]

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  30. Larry a cara that bastard would more than likely hand someone else in for his crimes..

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  31. SMH,

    As best as I can make it out, this is your argument:

    A foetus is a human being because life begins at conception and every foetus - even in the early stages - has a spirit. Therefore, abortion of foetuses is murder. However, the murder of foetuses ought to be available in a medical setting; otherwise many women will resort to desperate measures and risk their own lives having their foetuses murdered by backstreet abortionists.

    Does anyone else think this is crazy?

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  32. Alfie,

    Well the whole spirit thing yeah. The idea that a few cells is a human, ghost possessed life is pure balls in my opinion.

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  33. Tomás,

    this is why it is important in these discussion to completely disregard the religious argument about souls and all that. Otherwise we are into mermaids and unicorns. That does not mean we exclude believers from the discussion but how do we go about examining souls? The tangibles are what matter here.

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  34. Marty

    nothing new there i suspect at this stage.

    Re the abortion, is it not m,ore about the future life and potential that is being denied? The 'human being' is being denied the chance to develope. If we feel sorry for the inconvenienced mother, how can we be so unfeeling toward a life denied?

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  35. Tomás,

    I completely agree. I believe that once a foetus begins to feel pain and think, it then must be accorded some human rights. But this ability cannot exist until 24 weeks into the pregnancy at the very earliest. In fact, some scientists argue that the foetus is not conscious until after birth. I understand that the majority of abortions in the UK are carried out before 13 weeks and none after 24 weeks, so they don't present a huge ethical problem for me. I would be open to arguments for decreasing the abortion limit below 24 weeks, but the pro-life lobby will have a hard job persuading me that a fertilized egg is a human being with a "soul".

    Moreover, I cannot see how SMH reconciles her belief that abortion is murder with her belief that it ought to be legal.

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  36. That's just it Larry. Those teenage girls seem like its a contest to see who can get knocked up first and then when they have the kid reality hits them and they haven't a clue what to do.
    Tomas i believe strongly there's a very real link between out of wedlock teenage birth and rising crime. It is not eugenics and not exactly a new argument but sorry to catch you in a bad mood.
    that rant reminded me of a few ex girlfriends of mine.

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  37. Ryan,
    Does the 'knocking up' process happen via artifical insemination as their only appears to be these immoral young women and their children in your scenario.

    I doubt you could produce one iota of reliable piece of statistical data to back up what you wrote.

    I'm sure you will find a like minded voice here though, because rubbish has gutter appeal.

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  38. Larry,

    Strange how they can pregnant on their own and as such they alone are in need of classes.

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  39. Mackers
    political correctness is all well and good. Watch the Jeremy Kyle show, 'WHO'S YER DADDY' every single episode. Doesn't seem to me these people are unfortunate inteligent well meaning ladies. There's a neverending tsunami of trashbags dropping their nickers and refusing to take responsibility. There's so many eejits screwing them they have no idea as to who gets them up the duff. In fact, many of them just look for a sucker to take responsibility. Then they act the victim when the DNA test shows they are lying wee whores.

    THEY DON'T DO IT ON THEIR OWN, many have countless partners every weekend. Mammy mammy im up the duff, will ye mind it while I still go out and party?? Gutter slaggs.

    Don't take my word for it..watch Jeremy if you can suffer it. And before anyone says Belfast isn't like that...it is...it's the UK too, Marty and Gerry say so!!

    ReplyDelete
  40. Thats not a rant BTW just stating what can be seen on tv every day in liufe. It's incredulous how people can be deliberately blind. SF membership, John McGirr re RC church and PC fools.

    ReplyDelete
  41. SMH

    'Often young girls who become pregnant have come from homes where Mum got pregnant young too and often there is generational sorrows and issues within the family structures. It is not all about hot sex, hawking your fork and bludging off the govt....'

    Think you may be unintentionally confirming Ryan's argument here. BTW wasn't there a case in MA USA where an entire school full of young teenage girls got up the duff as a pact and boyfriends were kept in the dark about it. That was middle class America. So, it could be a female trait whatever the background, sorry Ryan.

    ReplyDelete
  42. just a wee query...was anyone convicted of raping this feemale delinquent? Seems feminism knows no bounds. There's a rapist on the loose is taken for granted. The woman is the victim. Oh jeremy kyle we love you!!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Larry,

    It is not political correctness that gets them pregnant. Some male is involved. The attitude and lifestyle of that male is frequently blamed by some sociologists for the perpetuation of the cycle of problems that you attribute to the young girls. Screwing around and denying responsibility is very much a trait of male behaviour as well. How a young girl can be a trashbag, a lying wee whore, a gutter slag while the person who impregnates them merely gets described as an eegit, seems to me to be a bigoted outlook which cannot masquerade as an analysis standing up to the fad of political correctness.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Alfie & AM RE 'As best as I can make it out, this is your argument:

    A foetus is a human being because life begins at conception and every foetus - even in the early stages - has a spirit. Therefore, abortion of foetuses is murder. However, the murder of foetuses ought to be available in a medical setting; otherwise many women will resort to desperate measures and risk their own lives having their foetuses murdered by backstreet abortionists.
    Does anyone else think this is crazy?'

    Alfie & AM RE

    yes that is what i believe but i can notch it up even more on the perceived ‘crazy’ hehe I also believe because we are spirit beings upon conception we also carry our ancestors wounds and that there is interconnectedness from generation to generation! For example my Mum and my grandmother live on in me and i feel their sorrows sometimes as well as their strength.

    Guess i have beat the McGirrs of the world with the so called questionable sanity status LOL aint that sumthin! I am comfortable in me tinfoil hat Alfie – not interested in making others wear em LOLOL

    i believe no girl or woman should be judged for their choice re the abortion.
    It is not for one to judge another in matters like this and it is outrageous that militant type Christians shout abuse at those going to a clinic for abortion. They do not know the persons history and even if they did – it never gives them the right to be so cruel.

    Conversely i don’t want feminists in me face shouting about how grand it is to rip up a foetus & that it is called empowering and liberating.
    I would never reject any person no matter what their choice in this matter as it is ultimately their right to choose. Hence there has to be clinics and ethical medical practices provided. No sane person wants to see girls and women resorting to home botched job abortions etc or in worse case scenario committing suicide...

    ReplyDelete
  45. @LarryH ‘Signed: totally shocked at your signature!’ LOLz! Every now & then abit of street sass rises up in me I am an auld woman now – freeeeeeedom. No more being objectified, judged and navigating thru the salivating males in realville Old & increasingly fugly is great! Live to be old young girls

    Its grand – society starts seeing you not you as just breasts and vagina. Old means you lose currency in the meat market world – whoo hoo! And with a tip of me tinfoil hat & a fugly grin i be gone.

    ReplyDelete
  46. mackers
    watching young men crying on the likes of the jeremy kyle show after being told a child isn't theirs and the mother has no clue which of the 5 sex partners actually is the dad does in my opinion make them eejits.

    In this article there is no indication there was a conviction for rape. Yet not one person female or otherwise flagged up the point.

    The reality is, feminists try to browbeat the hell outa society and create a fear to question womens rights or behaviour. There are no shortage of gutterslags out there nor of the fools who shag them. Luckily enough for jeremy kyle!

    If these females bothered to get politically correct themselves before browbeating the rest of us, ther'd be fewer wee bastards on the dole.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Larry,

    it is not a new take which we haven't has=d time to ponder before now. It is straight out of the underclass school of thought in the US - which so often blames the males anyway. It seems to blame those from the least advantaged sections of society for the problems that society faces. It is just another form of political correctness only in a right wing form this time. Doesn't persuade me.

    The lads involved on Jeremy Kyle which I have never watched for no reason other than I have never watched it, might be eegits. But calling someone an eegit is a mild rebuke compared to calling people sluts, tramps, whores or whatever the putdown of the day happens to be. Terms used to shock rather than clarify, but fail, leave us neither clear nor shocked. More heat than light I find. Ideas can be easily explored minus shock tactics.

    As for the article whether or not there was a rape is secondary to the denial of the morning after pill. Even were the prisoner to have been made pregnant as a result of an orgy in which she screwed 15 men, her right to the pill is not something a screw can infringe on. The article is essentially about someone in a position of authority trying to inflict a religious opinion who does not share it. The rape compounds the problem but it exists with or without the rape.

    ReplyDelete
  48. mackers
    don't really see much fault in your argument. I just can't stand obnoxious tunnel vision feminist bullshit that rejects any concept of females being fallible too. Jeremy kyle is worth 5 minutes a month. I recommend it to all those PC gurus so they can see the depressing reality of society around us all. Might snap them out of their utopian dreamworld.

    To take womens issues from the predetermined viewpoint that women are unempowered, a 'certain' victim and not responsible for anything they either do to themselves or is done to them, frankly doesn't wash.

    Perhaps rather than i being a biggot i simply refuse to be unthinkingly swayed by feminist junk from the 'get-go'. Each case on merrit. Perhaps it is more a case of failed [SINGLE] parents hiding their own and their kiddies failings behind PC? When I hear feminists calling for false rape claimants to be jailed for life, I'll believe they have genuine social interest rather than merely being gender fascists. Also all those females who knowingly permit unknowing men to raise other peoples kids should be jailed for fraud and life ruination on a massive scale.

    my description of some of the people i see on tv is not an attempt to shock nor insult, it is merely what i see. How can you refute that when you insulate your PC attitude by censoring your own viewing? Watch the boul' jeremy for 5 minutes before rejecting my case. That WILL shock yer PC sensitivities I suspect.

    As for the woman in the article, she was in jail because she was wanted. Ass-holes work in jails, it goes with the territory.

    SMH
    Good for you and more power to ya!!

    ReplyDelete
  49. BTW I am totally aware and disgusted at the wee males who jilt and let down girls who believed they had a meaningful relationship. Wee fuckers who abandon those girls deserve castrated. I just REFUSE to see feminism as correct. They are too often obnoxious and blind wee fascists....AND 100% of em are ugly..never seen a feminist win miss world...funny that!!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Larry,

    ‘To take womens issues from the predetermined viewpoint that women are unempowered, a 'certain' victim and not responsible for anything they either do to themselves or is done to them, frankly doesn't wash.’

    But that’s a debate you seem to be having with yourself as no one else seems to making the argument either way.

    ‘Perhaps rather than i being a biggot i simply refuse to be unthinkingly swayed by feminist junk from the 'get-go'.’

    Language like ‘dirty wee whore’ etc is bigoted. Just as ‘dirty fenian bastard’ is bigoted.



    Perhaps it is more a case of failed [SINGLE] parents hiding their own and their
    kiddies failings behind PC?’

    It may be but from what I have read today the PC case is made by yourself: trying vociferously to make the right wing PC case.

    ‘When I hear feminists calling for false rape claimants to be jailed for life, I'll believe they have genuine social
    interest rather than merely being gender fascists.’

    What any of that has to do with the current discussion I have no idea. But if you want to have a go at feminists, it’s your choice. Not a big fans of isms myself.

    ‘Also all those females who knowingly permit unknowing men to raise other peoples kids should be jailed for fraud and life ruination on a massive scale.’

    I suppose the argument could be made that anyone guilty of adultery could be jailed for fraud. It ruins many a life. But we don’t live in a theocracy. Some punishments are often worse than the crime

    What viewing is being censored? If people don’t watch something because they simply don’t watch something, that is what it amounts to. The freedom to watch is also the freedom not to watch. Shouts of censorship is a lame response to the issues raised here.
    ‘my description of some of the people i see on tv is not an attempt to shock nor insult, it is merely what i see.’

    ‘lying wee whores, Gutter slaggs, trashbags’ – if that is the language of persuasion rather than shock, I am at a loss to know how it works. In my mind it has all the persuasive power that ‘nigger’ has. It seems nothing more than a put down.

    ‘As for the woman in the article, she was in jail because she was wanted.’

    Is there anyone in jail not wanted?

    Your point is?

    ReplyDelete
  51. Mackers
    absolutely...[ABSOLUTELY!!] having a 'pop' at feminists. I felt the article had a point but left too much taken for granted. Should women be given contraception in jail? Don't see why.

    The character of the woman is not an issue for bloggers here, she is a woman and that siffices. The rape is taken as real. Not even 'allegedly raped'.

    'A tampa rape victim' it is asserted. Given her being wanted for an offence is her word infallible? Would you like yourself charged on her word? I'm not asserting she was not raped, I'm drawing attention to the bleeting hearts jumping to immediate defence mode. Tiring. Here is an accuser who turns out to be wanted by police herself but not for a second does this influence the many posts here. Brainwashed seems to be the reality of too many. I wonder are they even aware of it. Regardless of how many fake accusations are made people of a PC feminist disposition see no need for caution or considered judgement. However I noticed there was caution in relation to the female screw. 'If these claims are true'.

    So, yes, i'm having a pop at brain-dead feminism.

    As for having a baby in jail, if she's pregnant in reception she wont be the first. Get over it. The screws are not her mammy.

    As for a dirty fenian bastard. ALWAYS was and always will be proud to be one.

    As for wee whores and slaggs...reality is they are on view daily, what's your point? SPECSAVERS???

    Won't even address the 'right wing' nonsense. A bit SF-ish to try and tar nonconformist viewpoints huh? DISGUISED at ye big man.

    ReplyDelete
  52. SMH,

    Like many millions of people around the world, I loathe Bono. Should it be legal for me or another Bonophobe to murder him in a safe, medical setting? I mean, otherwise, some poor sod will resort to breaking into Bono's mansion and will be killed or seriously injured by Bono's security guards.

    Or what about female genital mutilation? Should it be available in a medical setting for the baby daughters of Muslim extremists because otherwise those loons would resort to backstreet botch-job butchery and risk the lives of the girls?

    Murder and other human rights violations are commonplace, but that does not mean we should legalise them.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Larry I used to live life to the FFFF rule maybe a better understanding and sex education with the availability of free condoms could have helped our generation and the subsequent generations,its not all the kids fault or indeed their parents imo,

    ReplyDelete
  54. Larry,

    Should women be given contraception in jail? Don't see why.

    Not in any way material to the discussion. As the argument flounders and flails the red herrings come into play.
    Point is, she is allowed contraception in jail. The jail policy was ignored by a screw seeking to inflict her religious opinion on a prisoner who did not share it. The screw of her own volition interfered with a decision taken by a doctor at the Rape Crisis Centre.

    ‘The character of the woman is not an issue for bloggers here.’

    How true. Nor should it be for you.

    ‘The rape is taken as real. Not even 'allegedly raped'.

    An irrelevancy to the argument being presented in the article, which is the screw had no right to do what she done. It matters not if RW was in for murder, robbery, whatever.

    ‘Given her being wanted for an offence is her word infallible?’

    As good as anybody’s else’s. Being wanted for an offence hardly decides her reliability one way or the other unless you ascribe some superior moral authority to the cops.

    ‘Would you like yourself charged on her word?’

    Nor on the word of the cops who wanted her for the offence. Again, another irrelevancy.

    ‘I'm drawing attention to the bleeting hearts jumping to immediate defence mode.’

    Must be on another site. The issue here is simple – either the screw had the right or she didn’t.

    ‘Here is an accuser who turns out to be wanted by police herself but not for a second does this
    influence the many posts here.’

    Nor should it. Being wanted by the police hardly equates with being guilty. Even if she is guilty it does not infringe on her right to have the contraceptive. Her guilt or innocence is not a determining factor her. Prisoners have rights unless we accept the paddy Cooney operspective which holds that 'prisoners have no rights.'

    ‘Regardless of how many fake accusations are made people of a PC feminist disposition see no need for caution or considered judgement.’

    I think they are very aware of the need for a considered judgement and caution to be applied when the cops say somebody is wanted for something.

    ‘So, yes, i'm having a pop at brain-dead feminism.’

    No sign of it here. The argument you have made seems to lack much in the way of brain activity. For example: ‘As for having a baby in jail, if she's pregnant in reception she won’t be the first. Get over it. The screws are not her mammy.

    ‘Won't even address the 'right wing' nonsense.’

    Because that was all it amounted to really, right wing nonsense.

    Non conformist positions are great. They should not be undermined by arguments as deficient as what has been presented here.

    ‘A bit SF-ish to try and tar ...’

    That’s what SF do – they call people whores who don’t do behave as they want them to.

    ReplyDelete
  55. mackers

    must say i got a tad miffed at lack of male-ism on display. Once again however my views were aired. Hats off. Unlike the website my mrs went onto in relation to the islands disputes in Asia, our pc was blocked/hacked. We blame China.

    Alfie glad to see a broadening of the argument away from unconditional devotion to female issues. We have no idea of the alleged rape victims background, why would that matter to some, she's female...right!? I personally hope the guy got over the trauma if he was falsely accused, though I doubt he will ever live it down.

    Marty.

    UNDERSTOOD. And agreed. Sorry if I caused personal offence. Thank fek that hippy era is over huh?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Larry none taken a cara,I,m opposed to abortion because one never knows when one will need a kidney or lung.

    ReplyDelete
  57. marty
    missing ye already. Might slide intae belshaft fer a sneaky ALL MALE BEVVY.

    ReplyDelete
  58. mackers
    i worked in a nackery/burnhouse. Not interested in looking at those sites. No offence.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Larry,
    Is guttersnipe you middle name or does fcuking hypocrite fit there also.
    Spongers, what about yourself?
    You bragged on this sight often and many times, about all the screwing around you do with the tax payers hard earned money.
    Must be why you can absorb yourself in the brain dead zone of Jeremy Kyle, while most single mothers and their children work hard to keep the likes of you.
    When I said rubbish remarks will always appeal to the gutter you proved me right again.

    ReplyDelete
  60. SMH,

    I do feel Alfie raises questions here about tensions in your position. If abortion is murder then it has to hold that murder is wrong whether prenatal or post pregnancy. I can understand how you might think abortion s murder but can’t understand why you would then approve it in a medical setting. Obviously I don’t buy into any of that about being spirit.

    ‘I believe no girl or woman should be judged for their choice re the abortion.’

    That only holds I think if you regard abortion as a difficult decision but not murder. Once you say it is murder surely there is an obligation on you to oppose it.

    ‘It is not for one to judge another in matters like this.’

    If it is not murder, then no.

    ‘and it is outrageous that militant type Christians shout abuse at those going to a clinic for abortion.’

    Yeah, but they shout at people in Harryville going to mass.
    ‘Conversely i don't want feminists in me face shouting about how grand it is to rip up a foetus & that it is called empowering and liberating.’

    Fair enough but there was no feminist doing that. This discussion was prompted by a woman expressing an opinion rather than shoving her view in our faces.

    ‘I would never reject any person no matter what their choice in this matter as it is ultimately their right to choose.’

    But how could this be so if it were murder?

    ‘No sane person wants to see girls and women resorting to home botched job abortions etc or in worse case scenario committing suicide...’

    Apart from some Christians I imagine not. But licensing murder is hardly an ethical way to prevent it. For those of us who do not see abortion as murder, these problems do not arise.

    ReplyDelete
  61. "I doubt you could produce one iota of reliable piece of statistical data to back up what you wrote."

    Au contraire Ms. Perry I definitely can. Here in the US when abortion was legalized in 1973 crime was rampant and out of control. It continued being out of control until around 1993. Ever since then whether the economy has been great or terrible such as this brutal recession right now crime just keeps dropping here. Why is that?? Once women had access to safe, legal and relatively cheap abortion, they were able to make decisions about whether they could adequatley raise the child. Hence around 93 when the late teen early 20 young men who woulda been unwanted and most likely poor, uneducated and raising hell they were not here because of abortion. And its been the same ever since. It's an uncomfortable and ghoulish argument but it's true nonetheless. Choice will come to Ireland one day and I look forward to that day. 20 years later you may even be able to walk around West Belfast safely at night again!!!

    ReplyDelete
  62. AM RE 'This discussion was prompted by a woman expressing an opinion rather than shoving her view in our faces.'

    To me the discussion was prompted by a woman glorifying abortion and thinking herself clever & liberated in the process.

    RE: 'But licensing murder is hardly an ethical way to prevent it. For those of us who do not see abortion as murder, these problems do not arise.'

    Because societies worldwide practise abortion and throughout history abortions have been happening - means that I can stand on what I am convicted about and speak it out like here. It does not mean I can stop abortion clinics operating and so forth.

    It also means I can only share my convictions in settings where a person is asking. Obviously in a work setting I have to adhere to the rights of the client/patient to make INFORMED choice in the matter & not introduce my personal conviction.

    Now this is my contention too that information is not relayed in fullness by abortion clinics. Some may argue this is due to the trauma the woman/girl may be experiencing Others may say why included biased information anti abortion.

    I believe informed information relay is letting a person know all facets re abortion for and against.

    You (& some others) may be interested in this site. I agree with his stance & salute him for speaking up. Doctors against abortion.
    http://doctorsagainstabortion.com/

    ReplyDelete
  63. Mackers
    why ye talk about murder when any woman can murder a mans life with a lie?

    Fionnuala
    I'm all of those things you mention..im just not in a straightjacket..wadabout you?? lovely to hear from you again BTW xox

    ReplyDelete
  64. fionnuala
    as a matter of yer no doubt female incuriousity ..if not outright danger...im a mature student in a one bed flat with my 'Catalogue bride' i have seen yer wee house beside the vatican...ive suffered yer ilk... tried to keep ye ands the likes of ye from my wife..im not doing the double..just finished a degree, on the hoof..what makes you so different Fionnual? Provies? other than one or two S Armagh kids living off perental reputation, i see fuk all special? PRAY TELL....tell the dole too in yer own feminine time xox

    ReplyDelete
  65. Larry,

    the one eyed man is king of the blind. Any person can 'murder' another's life with a lie. A man can do it about a woman as easily as a woman about a man. But in that sense murder is merely a descriptive term, binding on no one.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Ryan,

    not much in the way of evidence there. Just opinion. It might be a right opinion (which I doubt)but there is nothing there to back it up. No figures, no consideration given to effects of zero tolerance, no attempt to deal with the ever spiralling drugs issue, no addressing the question of how crime is defined and recorded, nothing to explain how, if crime is going down, the prison population is going up. Then it fails to deal with your claim not being replicated in Europe where abortion is also permissible. You would imagine that Ireland would have the worst crime rate in Euroope per head of population. Dublin's high murder rate can be explained by things other than no abortion policy

    ReplyDelete
  67. SMH,

    ‘the discussion was prompted by a woman glorifying abortion and thinking herself clever & liberated in the process.’

    I don’t see how she glorified it. I thought she presented it in terms of a serious problem that people have to deal with. She presented an alternative picture to that put out by the opposing side. And she stood up to the hate mongers that gather outside these clinics.

    RE: 'But licensing murder is hardly an ethical way to prevent it. For those of us who do not see abortion as murder, these problems do not arise.'

    ‘Because societies worldwide practise abortion and throughout history abortions have been happening - means that I can stand on what I am convicted about and speak it out like here. It does not mean I can stop abortion clinics operating and so forth.’

    You may not be able to have them closed but if you feel it is murder it is hard for us to understand why you argue for it in medical setting. If it is murder then surely there is no setting medical or otherwise that would justify it.

    ‘information is not relayed in fullness by abortion clinics.’

    I don’t know but what info is being withheld? And why is it necessary that such info should be included?

    ‘I believe informed information relay is letting a person know all facets re abortion for and against.’

    That would seem to be the role of advice centres not the clinic. Once women get there they have reached the point where they have decided for.

    ReplyDelete
  68. mackers
    probably the screw should have given the woman prisoner a tablet, perhaps like Fonnuala her ladylike mannerisms depends an a regular intake. Maybe protien pills too for all that 'double' activity of being a feminist and a cheerleader at the same time go go RA RA RA !!!

    Headng nto town now to spend my IMF dole money..life just keeps on being happy.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Larry,

    the screw simply had no right to withhold it. Thimk of her being a Jewish screw and she denied the prisoners any food that was not Kosher. It is not her choice in the matter. She has no right to practice her religion on anybody else who rejects it.

    Nuala is thoughtful about what she posts. I don't always agree with her but that is neither here nor there. Think about it: if she started calling 15 year old boys whoremasters, male sluts etc would you not think there are issues there that she needs to address?

    When in a hole there is a time to stop digging.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Every well nearly every 15 year old boys dream that Anthony a cara ...

    ReplyDelete
  71. AM patients have been known to vacillate between decisions right up to the op. Pre abortion counselling does not ever show (to the best of my knowledge into the now) a client actual footage of what the abortion involves. Potential patients are not given full medical information because well that little hearbeat with all its unique features –> it is just a nothing but a blob of cells... So THEY say. (check the doctors link doctorsagainstabortion for images, vids, medical details/information – the info is from an MD)
    Horrendous vids as they are – it is the reality. It is the withholding of the information like that i find heinous and untruthful. Tell the truth you medical practitioners that advocate abortion (& get higher pay o yeah that is worth a mention...) – yer hands are dripping with babes blood but you told us it was a quick, painless, medical procedure on a blob of cells... Denial aint a river in Egypt – it is a river of blood flowing full of heads, arms, legs, torsos of babies...
    I am totally convicted that abortion is killing a human life in its formative stages Whether someone agrees with me or not is irrelevant as long i get my say/voice in on it all fine by me & i thank u that dissent is allowed/not censored here.
    If someone chooses abortion and there will always be those who do it be essential it be conducted in a medical setting as homejobs, desperate attempts of a woman to abort and so on are worse and may end up with two lives lost...

    If a woman wants to put their abortion up on the net in pics to persuade other women its a nominal no big deal procedure she imo is self deceived/ill informed . I find it sad.

    The screw was wrong and had no right to contravene the immates right to choose what to do post rape nor deny her medication related to it in this case an abortifacient. The immate will win this case handsdown. The screw screwed up but will probably think she did the right thing and not grasp the negating of rights of another human being.

    Mind you it would be a rare screw who pondered human rights/ethical practice when it contravenes another persons right to choice...

    ReplyDelete
  72. Re’am my body’ my body belongs to me link/pic . If a woman wants to put a naked pic of herself on the net to prove her body belongs to her (insert a slightly cynical laugh here) well her body in image form sure as hell don’t belong to her now does it!. Once a nude image hits the net it belongs to the cyberworld to be jacked off over by unknowns. I just found it abit ironic in that respect.

    NB I u/stand why she did it, feel her pain but there be more power in NOT exposing your body to make a point imo. This is not a judgement on her but a critique of the stance. I feel the rage at how women’s bodies are thought of as property of men, property of church and government dictates, media usage to sell products (the list is endless)

    Have done some rather rad things meself over the decades and that is how this old woman has figured for her the power is in the mind & spirit not showing what u got.

    I would have paid a visit to the Pope in Rome stark naked by now to make a point if i thought it would bring Justice, change & so on.

    All it would bring is cries of horror from devoted catholics, NB everyone i know would larf their guts out & i would score a stint in the Big House but would shrewdly plead insanity & win! thus would have to endure court ordered sessions talking to a bored shrink.

    Worse the Pope would write me saying Return my child to the Mother Church with clothes on. Yes u can see i pondered it many years ago... LOLOL TMI!!

    ReplyDelete
  73. Know where your coming from SMH I would have waved my willie at Benny the bad but the bugger might have asked me for my phone no...

    ReplyDelete
  74. SMH,

    You say that the hands of medical practitioners who advocate abortion "are dripping with babes blood".
    Yet you believe abortion should be available in a medical setting even though it is "killing a human life in its formative stages". Therefore, aren't your hands a little bloody too?

    "If someone chooses abortion and there will always be those who do it be essential it be conducted in a medical setting as homejobs, desperate attempts of a woman to abort and so on are worse and may end up with two lives lost..."

    An Islamic extremist might use the same logic in the following way:

    If Muslim parents choose female genital cutting for their young daughters and there will always be those who do, it is essential that it be conducted in a medical setting as homejobs, desperate attempts by the parents and so on are worse and may end up with the girl's life being lost.

    ReplyDelete
  75. AM,
    failed to point out that the exact same thing happened in the exact same time span in Canada, Australia and Romania after Ceaucescu. But onto the bigger point, a society that has choice is the sign of a healthy forward looking society moving away from the clutches of religion. Unfortunately after reading some of these posts the decatholicazation of Ireland has a long long way to go.

    ReplyDelete
  76. AM
    I broke me shovel on this one. Oh dear, so near and yet so far, from Australia.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Larry,

    sure if you made it to Australia you might just end up meeting Cardinal George Pell. Whatever your 'sins' you hardly deserve that.

    ReplyDelete
  78. God hates quite a bit of his creation if these two clampets Ministers Mark & Paul are to be believed.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Not much about a god of love from these two.

    ReplyDelete
  80. A couple of monkey spankers if you ask me Anthony.what would those two ,a priest and a pint of guinness have in common,you,ve guessed it a dodgy one and your arse is in for some serious repercussions...

    ReplyDelete
  81. SMH,

    ‘not all abortions are done in the first trimester’

    Which explains why apprehension rises as we move into the second trimester, and even the third.

    ‘Some women are fine post abortion and some are not.’

    Which is a case for post abortion counselling services.

    I don’t think that we can say ‘The same can be said for those who argue for abortion’ as can be said for the anti lobby. The pro abortion lobby insofar as it can be said to have a unified character is prepared to leave the decision in the woman’s hands and wants her to have the information she needs to consider her options. There are many in the pro abortion lobby who do not like it just as many women who have abortions do not like it. But the anti lobby – if there is one united body – seems to have their perspective informed by religion. And that tends to introduce hatred. They introduce the element of threat – telling people they will face the violence of hell. That pollutes any discussion and is designed to intimidate.

    In my view an abortion clinic should be just that. It should perform the surgery in a secure and safe environment. I think it should be part of a wider process or education and help , much of which I think is already in place.

    ‘The goal being to educate and support non judgementally.’
    But we cannot be anything other than judgemental if we view something as murder. It is amoral to avoid the issue in that context. This is the difficulty I have with your argument. You call it ‘the annihilation aka murder aka knocking off a life.’ Society can in my view only have one attitude to murder.

    ‘Presenting abortion as a rudimentary, run of the mill, just another medical procedure is a lie point blank.’

    But where is this done?

    ‘Women and young girls deserve to be fully informed and make informed choices knowing all the risks and all the possible outcomes.’

    But that is not the task of the clinic.

    ‘As a Christian not affiliated with any denomination, nor affiliated with any pro lifer org etc but as a believer in the Christ – life is formed at conception – DNA, unique features etc It is all a happening in the foetus hence it is a unique life.’

    Which means you would have to oppose the morning after pill. I simply could never reconcile myself to that perspective.

    ‘And as a believer in God i believe each person has a spirit within those cells at conception. Now if you are not a believer in God this is meaningless twaddle.’
    I have to say it is to me. People can believe what they want but that simply does not compute with me.

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  82. Dont by into that argument Anthony ie, bit by bit they are being forced into the modern world, I think Robinsons attendance at the gay pride event was nothing more than political opportunism and merely for the optics,the mindset has not been changed one iota,if anything it is they are now getting better and cleverer about disguising their bigotry,

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  83. Marty,

    I could buy into your argument easy enough. While I think they are being forced into the modern world I doubt if they like it or believe it to be right, but they have to play the game. A gay unionisty politician once told me he had more to fear from that brand of unionism than nationalists had.

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  84. I see commandant Kelly (now called Gracie in some quarters)was at the gay pride parade I wonder if his new favourite song is "burning ring of fire"

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  85. Marty,

    Thanks for the ID on that. There was me thinking it was Titty Von Tramp in SF drag

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  86. SMH,

    ‘Pre abortion counselling does not ever show (to the best of my knowledge into the now) a client actual footage of what the abortion involves.’

    I don’t know how much it shows but the info stage is really pre clinic. I haven’t got to look at the links. With most links sent my way I rarely have the time to go thru them. It is a case of hit and miss.

    ‘I am totally convicted that abortion is killing a human life in its formative stages.’

    But if is murder as you argue is there not a moral imperative to stop it? Is it not just the same as arguing for more humane gas chambers into which the victims of the Nazis should be herded. I can see somebody who agrees with abortion arguing for a better medical centre but not someone who thinks it is murder. It seems incongruous.

    Dissent is welcome here but so is questioning of the content of that dissent.

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  87. mackers
    might personal responsibility be an option. ie if someone can't be arsed to take the pill or morning after pill why expect the NHS to offer abortion. ALSO the RC church can't have it every which way in poor countres, no contraception AND no abortion. wtf??

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  88. Larry,

    personal responsibility is always an option. But is society to be unduly punitive or is it to be more liberal? The NHS could refuse to treat any smoker for a smoke related illness on that basis. It could sterilise without trial on the basis of suspicion is the argument is pushed far enough.

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  89. mackers
    maybe if there are women unable to take the pill and the RC church determined they shouldn't have them anyway there is no alternative but FREE NHS abortions. Alternatively, if abortions were privatised the govenrment could tax them like cigarettes? Everyone happy, except the vatican.

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  90. larry,

    only if you value private health care and the two tier system it gives rise to.

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  91. Mackers
    ballance needed between dire necessity and abuse of the system. When we have to pay we think things through a little more carefully. Take university degrees for example, I could have done mine in the free state for free but went into debt to near £11,000 to do the course I wanted at Ulster Uni. Having said that, I'm tremendously greatful that in my late forties the system permitted me access to it. If things are too accessible they can be undervalued, a case of ballance perhaps? Like people being on the dole or 'double' for life and complaining about poverty and everything else at every oportunity?

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  92. Larry,

    third level education in my view should be free. Modern society needs an educated population. The possibility of creating it is cut down if only the rich through economic circumstance are allowed access to it.

    Abuse of the system is something society lives with if it is to have a system that protects the most vulnerable. If it is serious about abuses it will look at where the greatest abuses take place. They are hardly emanating from the most deprived areas of society although the ideology of the undeserving poor wouldn’t let us see that.

    Fair play to you for going for your degree but it is the same degree whether you paid for it or society did. And the person who was unable to raise the cash should not be denied the opportunity of getting that degree because of poverty.

    ‘If things are too accessible they can be undervalued, a case of balance perhaps?’

    Food for example. Maybe people should starve so that they can be better disciplined to function in a capitalist society

    Being on the dole is not a pleasant experience. It is degrading and demeaning. But we could always forget that and extend our sympathy to the wealthy of whom Rex Stout reminds us ‘nothing is more admirable than the fortitude with which millionaires tolerate the disadvantages of their wealth.’

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  93. Nuala,

    One of the problems it seems with some feminists is that they use it as an excuse to police the behaviour of other women and exercise the same dominationist impulses they accuse men of having.


    Alfie

    ‘the pro-life lobby will have a hard job persuading me that a fertilized egg is a human being with a "soul".’

    Me either. The arguments about souls should have no bearing on the discussion. How can people discuss a soul any more than a unicorn which nobody else is allowed to see?

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  94. mackers

    'Fair play to you for going for your degree but it is the same degree whether you paid for it or society did. And the person who was unable to raise the cash should not be denied the opportunity of getting that degree because of poverty'

    Absolutely it is the same degree. However i wanted it and took student loans rather than a degree in an IT over 4 yrs which would have been free. It involved moving from Sligo to Donegal and making the effort. Chemsts are closer than that I suggest.

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  95. in relation to people on the dole, ok they aren't millionaires, but they are champion bellyachers quite a few of them. AND YES a wee stint living on the street or in a shanty would make them a little more appreciative. Perhaps a few months in a millionaire mansion might give them the incentve to get off their arse? Or maybe go back and burgle it??

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  96. Larry,


    ‘Absolutely it is the same degree. However i wanted it and took student loans rather than a degree in an IT over 4 yrs which would have been free.’

    Means absolutely nothing to me how you got it. You did well to get what you did. But it makes you no better or worse than the person who got it without taking out the loan. The same intellectual effort had to be put in.

    As for those on the dole who you seem to resent, there is nothing new in your arguments that would give us something to think about. Norman Tebbitt has been beating that drum for years – telling people to get on their bikes and find work. It is a standard right wing critique of those experiencing deprivation.

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  97. mackers
    NO! the welfare state came out of workers struggles. People now use it as an easy alternative and abuse it from school onwards. All i'm saying is people get things when they need it here and many a time its not welfare its a supplement to a job. There is no interest in personal responsibility like getting of ones arse watching coronation street or eastenders omnibus and going to the chemist for the pill to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Too much yapping and no personal responsibility. My heart doesn't bleet for people in 3 bed gaffs gettin all paid and working at the same time. Dont begrudge them doing t either, just wish they'd stop yapping poverty.

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  98. Larry,

    this is simply a repetition of the right wing propaganda that has been launched from the moment the right decided it needed to roll back the welfare state and reverse the gains won by the working classes in the post world war 2 period. The ideology of the undeserving poor was once again rolled out; the people relying on the welfare state were targeted for abuse that they were spongers. The right relied in part on the 'I'm alright Jack and fuck the rest' mentality to disseminate the idea of the working class leech which they hoped would come to be the popular conception of people who needed social welfare. Atomise communities into individuals and tell people there is no society only individuals, weaken social solidarity, promote individualism and have people focus on individual attainment in the rat race and then have them turn on those who got left behind; blame the victims for systemic failings. It is so well played out that there is hardly any need to repeat it. The welfare state is needed by people to get by. The ‘I’m alright Jacks’ might be a useful prop for right politicians trying to roll back the welfare state, concentrate wealth in the hands of those who already have it, displace the worst effects of economic ravaging onto those least able to resist, but their need to self justify by labelling the deprived as leeches is more revealing about their own position than the people they seek to attack.

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  99. mackers
    anyone without a job should be given all the help they need. I don't believe everyone with a job should also be entitled to benefits as a right, do you? Is benefit 'fraud/the double' a strike at imperialism?. Better wages is the answer, not benefits on top of wages, not in a council estate nor in an upper crust area either.

    I'm not blaming people on the double for the economic melt-down. If there's no jobs people deserve to be assisted. When the dole is whittled away to zero, AND IT WILL BE, I'll protest with the rest. But for now I'm greatful, and not looking the double, just a job. Oh aye, and the pill, you never can tell these days!!

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  100. Larry a cara where is it exactly that you hear all these great unwashed "yapping"?you mo cara have a good mind and lots of life experience,those who are disadvantaged need your encouragement and support not the regurgitated words that come from the hooray Henry,s,dont blame the victim for the crime mo cara...

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  101. Larry,

    ‘I don't believe everyone with a job should also be entitled to benefits as a right. Do you’

    I do. A caring society that values people will have universal standards and services that all can avail of. Everyone should avail of child benefit as of right, same as access to education, transport and health.

    ‘Is benefit 'fraud/the double' a strike at imperialism?’

    In many cases it is a strike at poverty and deprivation. The greatest fraud is not going on in the benefits system although the undeserving poor ideology wouldn’t let you know that.


    ‘Better wages is the answer, not benefits on top of wages.’

    And where better wages don’t come though?

    ‘I'm not blaming people on the double for the economic melt-down.’

    You don’t seem to be blaming anybody else. The entire thrust of your discourse seems to amount to the poor being to blame for their poverty so let’s call them names, label their young people whores and sluts, call prisoners whingers – it is all constructed to allow the powerful to evade responsibility and opprobium

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  102. Ideologcal politics is dead. Has been for a long time. It's all about resources management and who does it best. Social democracy. If we were in a Socialist Republic [wee workers paradise/dreamland] I'm sure the thought of a lumpen proletariate would be repulsive to all 'good comrades'. But the culture of anti-state/society and anti authority runs riot here. Trumps all other 'hands'. The right wing argument is just pathetic.

    But then wee norn iron must be a totally deprived, poverty srticken region and also totally different from all other similar regions...because either there are no shysters, whores, whngers nor useless ass-holes living in it...or it is just inhabited by the socialist fantasists and the blind? If you want to talk about bankers and white collar crime post an article on it and we can debate it. I'm addressin the fact there are career scroungers and wee whores out there milking the system as a culture/career. Marty, SPECSAVERS is all I can say to you amego, I know you aint that blind or deluded. But it's a good comedy show reading the heartfelt bleeting on here. PHONEY BALONEY!

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  103. the welfare state is there to help. Question s just how much do people need? Pigs at trough, cows n clover...Applies to the upper strata as well as the lower. Quinns etc...Sean Fitzpatrick. But of course the oirish are all 'victims'. Oh where oh where would we all be without the Brits to aim our bellyaching at? Oh aye that's right, leaving a bankrupt free state in the thousands every week headng for any of her Majesty's Commonwealth nations that would offer us a future...but then we are all victims and we shouldn't see it any other way...taboo hoo hoo lmao.

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  104. JJMcGirr I saw you are in the house again but i am not buying into your antics hehe Sound of one hand clapping is you!
    ‘Vicious u r so vicious O baby u r so vicious... hey! Why don’t u swallow razorblades’ lolz... Feeling that godly love just aflowin out of u in the name of God... (not)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7sMNe0nGkQ

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  105. AM&Alfie RE ‘‘Presenting abortion as a rudimentary, run of the mill, just another medical procedure is a lie point blank.’

    AM = ‘But where is this done?’
    All the time all the time in counselling and interventions...

    Normalisation of abortion is well entrenched. That is why i did the doctors link referral as he sets it all out which would take me hours of typing here to explain...
    After reading what you both wrote I acknowledge there is a dichotomous approach but this is due to my not being to stop abortions if a person chooses this action. It is different from’ gas chambers’ in that respect as the foetus belongs to a thinking person who has the right to decide what to do. It is a gray area that many health practitioners and social work people etc have to navigate through.

    Short of standing outside abortion clinics shouting It is murder which i would not ever do ='s the way to address it is to speak out your truth in situations where you can (ie) like here. Also ensuring in work settings that clients get FULL information. I cannot explain any more than that.

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  106. ‘Question is just how much do people need?’

    More than they get at the minute but it is a question that should be asked to those at the top from the outset and not as an afterthought.

    ‘But of course the oirish are all 'victims'.

    Retreating into drivel does not conceal the paucity of the argument made.

    ‘Oh where oh where would we all be without the Brits to aim our bellyaching at?’

    You manage well enough bellyaching at the poor, prisoners, young girls who might contraception. There is no shortage of targets.

    ‘Ideologcal politics is dead. Has been for a long time.’

    Who said that before? Daniel Bell with the End of Ideology or Francis Fukuyama with the End of History. It is an old right wing refrain aimed at masking the ideological content of politics.

    Politics is always ideological, it is never anything else. Managerialism is ideology masquerading as something that isn’t.

    ‘The right wing argument is just pathetic.’

    Why make it at every turn?

    ‘If you want to talk about bankers and white collar crime post an article on it and we can debate it. I'm addressin the fact there are career scroungers and wee whores out there milking the system as a culture/career.’

    You haven’t debated much yet, merely walked yourself into cul de sacs guided by prejudice and spite. And if you can address ‘career scroungers and wee whores’ neither of which were written about here, why not address bankers etc? Through those we choose to target our prejudices are made quite clear.

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  107. In relation to scroungers and career fraudsters 'wee whores' is non sexist. It applies to both genders, of all ages.

    Me having a good mind does not set me outside the parameters of society. Those who can read and apply for every benefit under the sun and hold down a full time job and drive a nice car all at the same time have a good mind also. A VERY GOOD ONE. It's just their choice how they apply it. Sad thing is they are NEVER satisfied. I'm in my sofa bed watching Max Kaiser on satelite tv. Not sure I'll go into town tomorrow coz thers still loads of food in the fridge and I dont really need my dole until thursday. Was considering seeing if I can get DLA here, but would need to check if I can get it directly into the bank and use it on holiday. Be a fucker if I had to collect it at the post office every week. Gotta be someone I can complain to about that?

    However, I'm greatful for the assistance I get. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. So i shall not upon reflection be applying for DLA. I'll continue to avail of education until the economy recovers or a job pops up.

    My mrs on the other hand will go out to town today to send money to her family who are in a hotel because half the Philippines is under water. No dole, no DLA no food stamps no hope no future...and what impresses me the most...NO FUKIN BELLYACHERS!

    Tell us mackers...where do the lumpen proletariat fit into your workers paradise, or are there no whores schemers cunts and fraudsters in your perfect world?

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  108. @ Larry When unemployment and hard times hit it is always the workng class and disadvantaged sectors societies blame. Always. Pawns in political blame games... Easy targets...

    Education is freaking wonderful & i mean it. If there is anything you can give working class & street kids that will feed their soul/mind/spirit with power ongoing it is education. You gotta plant the seed of desire for it in em by connecting in real ways... where they are at.

    I started getting educated at 28 - years of nite school & i mean years & all us students were rough as guts from rotten backgrounds & stuff. Punchups and fights used to break out (i confess one i instigated hehe) but we had this brilliant teacher who told us we could even go to University IF we shut our gobs & listened/worked our guts out to learn.

    Us so called losers & nobodies were the backbone of societies is what the teacher said. Profits were made from the sweat & blood of our ancestors. We had a right to education & a voice in politics! Our lower socio economic voices were important & that if we pulled our heads in we could go to University & get degrees (most of us did) I always remember this Aboriginal guy sitting next to me turning to me & his eyes were lit up, shiny with hope when he heard that. We were grinning at one another like Cheshire cats lol. See you gotta put fire in the peoples bellies to fight upwards not internalise self hate & despair...

    NB I believe a huge part of apathy and decimation of young lives is that they get reinforced they are weak nobody shits in media in societies and so they start to live it out generationally. Break the cycle! that's what i tell young ones. U got the power Use it not to implode & sag like a sack of shit but rise up U gotta work for it fight for it... Who sees it knows it stuff. NB As long as you got roof over yer head, food in yer gut & education u doing good. Who cares if it is social housing estate u live or a shitbox flat. It's a home & anyone who disses u for that is not worthy of a second glance. SMH preachin over!

    PS when i finally scored my Uni degree i felt strange like i didnt deserve it! After years of f..king struggle this residual self defeatist societal bs stuff was still there. Made me realise how powerful societal codings & keeping the teeming minions down is.

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  109. Larry while you are entirely correct that that there is lots of people creaming the welfare state for what they can get,and this you focus on entirely mo cara, its a fact that the fat cats are guilty by far of greater theft and thats not including the spongers in the royal household,while I may need specsavers mo cara you need to open those wee eyes your mitre board hat must be blinding you.

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  110. SMH and Marty

    It's the culture of 'creaming' the dole ..doing the double I'm targetting. Especially now in a megga recession when funds are more needed than ever and thinly spread. Fraud and cute whores is no different in the boardroom or the terraced house. More people need to look in the mirror before complainng about banksters and corruption in society. It permeats every level. If we want a better society start by looking in the mirror. Someone will be denied welfare because 50% of the population are already claiming DLA and driving around the country sightseeing. Not much socialism or social concience in much of that. It's been goin on my entire life in every town in the country. Maybe the bankers just fancied a go at it.

    SMH I will do my MA and PHD if permitted AND i'll pay back the fees. Then if i have a job and time left i'll get my family in Manila sorted out. My cynicism towards a high percentage of 'working class' fraudulence is more offensive than those people waltzing about the ghettos and not so 'ghetto' areas spendng money they have no right to. Hospitals, schools etc get the lash here. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. All of us. Who are the victims? The genuine sick!! But sure the brits did all this to us...didn't they.

    No different in having our pockets picked than waiting forever in an A+E ward, the money was just stolen a different way. Ask ourselves who stole it? There's need and there's GREED. But sure as long as we're being victimised.?
    Fuckin brit bastards screwed us again.

    Marty
    i can see just fine, my head was too fat for it to slip down over my eyes.

    SMH

    you are some pup...more power to you and those with yer attitude.

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  111. Larry,

    ‘It's the culture of 'creaming' the dole ... doing the double I'm targeting.’ Take a step back and think if you heard somebody else saying that, how pretentious it would sound. Must box the scoundrels’ ears old boy for doing the double. Time for some reflection I imagine.

    The good news is you are not on your own. The Tories are targeting it as well. The things that tax their minds! Doing the double is hardly the greatest of crimes given the range of what goes on in this country and elsewhere. I can understand the Tories having that attitude it but not you with your background. Like the rest of us you are hardly an Old Etonian. Nor are you presenting new arguments. There is no invention of the wheel here. That was invented a long time ago. Just like the focus on the undeserving poor. The right have beaten you to it Larry by a long stretch. At least give us some new arguments that we can consider on their merits instead of this endless bellyaching against the poor.

    There is no such thing as a workers’ paradise. Another one of those strawmen that is thrown up when the logic collapses. I think it is called clutching at strawmen. Marxism is the opium of the Marxists as far as I can make out. Because there is no workers’ paradise is no reason to condemn the workers to hell.

    How many make up the lumpenproletariat? Useful term if nobody actually knows what it means. Different altogether when you are up against people who can see beyond the term.

    '50% of the population are already claiming DLA and driving around the country sightseeing.'

    What survey provided us with this knowledge?' I'll take a guess and suggest it is from the Norman Tebbitt's Housetraining for Uppity Ungrateful Ne'r do wells from the Lower Classes.

    Worthy that you have retreated from your teenage girls as whores discourse and (another afterthought?) have given it an inflection to cover men as well. I don't know any whores. There are schemers in all walks of life, even in universities where you must have met a few just as I have.. Scammers are to be found all over the place. Yet some people only seem to get worked up about scammers from the poorest sections of society and are remarkably silent about scammers and fraudsters from the richer end of the spectrum.

    Benefit fraud is not the problem in this country. The right will always define it as such and seek to demonise those doing the double as a means to mask what goes on elsewhere and what really causes the problems of society. An old ideological trick aimed at creating a moral panic. How often have we seen it employed? The woman pulling in 100 bucks a week extra doing the double does not ethically equate with the embezzler in the world of business or the financial speculators. But then I would think that not viewing the world through right wing eyes which can only see all the double doers.

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  112. champaigne socialism must be the answer then. A car for everyone in the house and fuck the welfare state, hospitals schools etc? I don't see a difference in fraud at the top or the bottom other than those at the top get more out of it. The schools and hospitals etc don't benefit from either lot. Just a strange take on morals that working class theft is purer than rich theft. That attitude has the country where it is and is the reason it will never change. HAIL HTLER!!

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  113. it helps to think before you write.

    As the Czech proverb says, the big thieves hang the little ones.

    The gullible and the malign talk of equivalence all the while forgetting Anatole France who observed that the law permits the rich and poor alike to sleep under the bridges of the River Seine, beg on the strests and steal food.

    Hail the rule of law

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  114. Jihad John said "Hail Mary"

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  115. Larry are we to take it you wont be leaving untill you,ve paid of your student loan,,ffs I,m starting a collection....

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  116. We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office:Aesop.no change there then :Marty

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  117. marty
    never worry about the collection. If I end up trapped in Ireland listening to all the victims balme eachother there's always her majesty...and I don't mean a handshake, I mean the Post Office.

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  118. marty
    i have the reassurance of an Australian friend who told me when his great granny arrived in Australia for seven years after stealing a loaf, she remarked upon seeing the place, 'Why did I not steal ten!!'

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  119. They are nearly all closed a cara do try and keep up...

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  120. ffs people can't even collect their dole now, direct into the bank. No wonder private enterprise is at an all time low!

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  121. Yip a cara its all gone belly up.and had yer mates granny stole a sheep in them thar days she was lucky she was a woman and the colonies needed breeding stock of the female variety.had she been the grandad,well I,m afraid that could have been a hanging offence.and given your recent conversion to the far far far far right a cara,you,d probably agree with that...

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  122. Ryan,

    A brief glance would suggest the theory is highly fanciful. Divesting itself of religion is good for any society. But it should not be banned. Bram Stoker’s Dracula or the bible, every country has its fiction and the myth of the undead.

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  123. martybhoy

    touche! ye got me. i'm all for ending dole fraud and unemployment careerists..ALSO i advocate 60% taxation for the wealthy and 75% for JOURNALISTS!!

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  124. Born Again Larry,

    I wonder if you ever collected the dole and if so do you feel deserving as you lambast the same system.
    Instead of being born again Larry the victim of social welfare you should offer some solutions perhaps open up work camps bring back slavery and on a good day maybe dispose of the elderly the weak and infirm just for good measure.
    Extreme poverty and chronic unemployment are facts and the minority of recipients subsist on whatever the amount allocated is far removed from your utter nonsense that life on the dole is a party with drink and cars for all.

    More lies much like the dissidents laying drunk in Derry you used to prove a point then changed it to the drunks laying in the streets. What is so wonderful about their lives that you oppose so bitterly in an envious manner? For the likes of you, it is simple to laugh at alcoholics as if you are beyond reproach when in reality all you do is mouth and repeat blaming society for your own personal failures.
    Why attack a system that provides a meager amount of money that in turn feeds and shelters people and leave it to those employed to weed out those who abuse the system after all even the people doing the double are providing jobs for those employed to catch them.

    Should I complain about foreigners coming to Ireland collecting the dole and taking jobs? The answer is NO fair play to anyone who does a bit better poverty and unemployment holds no politics.

    Now, if you did collect the dole you should inform your gracious government that you wish to repay the pittance they granted you in your time of need I am sure a well to do moral braggart as yourself would sleep a lot better knowing you are squared away. Unlike those evil double doers with no ethics or morals hell bent on making born again Larry’s world unbearable.

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  125. Larry,

    I think you need to sit up and take notice of where the type of argument you have made ultimately takes you. The ideas are ill thought out, a repetition of all the right wing attacks on the poor, and often made in provocative manner. If they provoked thinking I would grudgingly concede but they don't. There is nothing in them that has not been heard before. I think you are capable of much more than a right wing rant. If you are happy with right wing politics then at least make a robust argument for your position. You don't need me to tell you that you will not be prevented from doing so here.

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  126. Tain Bo
    it amuses me that for me to state that for some people, if not entire families in every town in the country, the social welfare is the career of choice infuriates you. People getting worked up on it is akin to a mass demo over some factory closure, the 'pencil' factory. But sure as long as society can be squeezed dry from the top and the bottom and everyone has plenty to bellyache about..happy days, utopia is already with us. People don't see the system as theirs. So, screw it into the ground then complain at lack of services, no free education etc. Highly hypocritical and equaly as amusing. But sure, why seriously look at the system or society when all we have to do is bleet whilst sitting on a loaf eatng another loaf. Belt out the odd Connolly quote and our concience and revolution are both satisfied and intact immediately.

    THE WORLD is not enough for some people.

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  127. Mackers
    there has to be a ballance in society thats all im suggesting. 40% on the dole or 100% is grand if the Brits and Europe are happy to foot the bill. But to then go castigating the supplier of funds for our leisure is just bunkum old chap. Quoting Connolly or the odd dead mummy from the historical archives who has zero relevance to today is pointless and boring. No one is jumping up to die for that shite anymore. Look around you. 1850s and 1916 are long gone. Some people desperately need to convince themselves it is still relevant, but, who cares. Todays revolutionaries [joke] either get a meaningful political platform, address social problems in 2012 or at least apply on the welfare for a sense of humour.

    Just my opinion.

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  128. I don't think i'm any more anesthetised to political stagnation here than the rest of the bloggers nor indeed people in society generally. But ancient political quotes and same old same old no longer cuts the mustard. It will not inspire a new generation to the grave and jail if that's what the 'last of the mohikans' are dreaming of. Yes the brits will screw up and are screwing up. It's what they do. People here no longer care. They are on a drip feed of welfare and minimum wages. AND THEY ARE HAPPY. Tain Bo, genuine alternative PLEASE.? Not historical or emotional gunk. I want deprived people to feel comfort and securty. I don't want old dears dying in front of a two bar electric fire wrapped in a blanket with 2 coats on coz they are afraid to turn the fre on. I will be one myself n a week or two. I dont think sticking them in a DLA motor and turning on the enging and heater is the answer. Funds can be more imaginatively distributed than that. What say yer? Only Henry Ford benefits from that plan.

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  129. Larry

    ‘But sure as long as society can be squeezed dry from the top and the bottom’

    Who really believes that doing the double is screwing society on a par with what is happening at the top? The double pales into insignificance compared to what goes on elsewhere. Coming from a working class background and having seen people do the double, I don’t recognise in many of them the type of figure you have created. People on the dole don’t seem happy to me. They seek work, spend endless hours applying for it, get constant refusals, are bored out of their wits. The right wing ideological slant that they are all work shy scroungers simply doesn’t wash. It is like the ‘lazy nigger’ put down that so many black people were subject to. They too were scrounging, would rather rob than work ...

    Society is being screwed into the ground more by rich people than it is by poor. That is not to argue for one minute that there are no rogues amongst the poorest. We need only look at the anti social behaviour that goes on. But to become fixated with people doing the double and using all sorts of names to put them down, seems to me to be ultimately self defeating. Nobody seems to be getting the point you are trying to make. You should never caricature your own cause if you want it to be taken seriously. You only end up doing your adversaries’ work for them.

    I see very few Connolly quotes getting bleated out here. If I am not mistaken you are the only one to have mentioned him. You need to face the critique head on rather than head off into chicanes.

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  130. Well I must say Anthony you sure have some colourful characters on TPQ Jihad John on and religion and Lofty Larry on social issues...Larry a cara like the post office Henry Ford is brown bread a cara ...

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  131. mackers

    'They seek work'

    ...how can they be seeking it when they take time off to sign on? A trade not learned at the 'WOLF' but at the skullery table. If ye want a revolution, stop the benefits!. Are ye listnin Eirigi?

    All i'm saying is if we want a better society, before slaying the dragon, look in the mirror. Why not get a posse organised up to Stormont and insist on granny getting her winter heating. Or is it already sorted?

    There are worse places to be living where much more yapping would be merrited.

    Once Tain Bo, Wee Marty and the likes of ms. Price convince me the 'PEARSE BLOOD' route is feasible rather than worthy, then i'll get down on my hands and knees over broken glass after spit polishing me boots like Martin Meehan.

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  132. Born Again Larry,

    Shame on you, you have collected the dole and worse you stated that if your escape plan fails you have the alternative to collect the dole as you already know even with a wee bit a paper stating you went to school chances are you will join the long lines of people waiting for a few quid to get by.
    If you do end up on the dole will, you be man enough to retract your words if you are unfortunate enough to end up drawing the dole to feed your family in the future or will your new found pride let them suffer?
    If a wealthy person decides they do not want to work, does that make them lazy and an unproductive member of society? People who do work if they manage to do little all day are they not stealing from their employers? It would be worth arguing the social dynamics of society but like most of what you post it is just to spout rather than constructively take a position on any issue.
    The extreme right has been yapping those lines for years yet they have failed to provide any alternative much the same as the left.
    It baffles my mind that your failed career as a revolutionary has forced you to become a want to be right wing nut job.


    I am away to stakeout my spot on the street and slag all the born again Larry’s that laugh at me in my drunken state.

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  133. Humour works Larry, but only when it it is good

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  134. Mackers
    i recon the lot of us know the score. Piss taking aside. People are very well off here. Look to the USA or Philippines. We have a very cozy safety net. If the war s over then it's over. Excentuate the positive. Negativity and blaming the world whilst we live in 3 bed houses, drive free cars and eat for free, [nomatter how desperately we seek 'work'] is 'cool' here. ut PLEASE don't tell me we are all 'victims'. BE HAPPY, it could be worse..or even worser.

    Marty

    yer a super guy. I'm sniffin perhaps that wee yoke of yours is a DLA waggon. If so congrats to your loyalty to the GB motor industry. Like the contra affair, the brits redirected fenian benefits to the uk car industry via a wee book.

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  135. It seems to me that this issue has been well and truly settled. Not much more to be said.

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  136. SS-MH

    'JJMcGirr I saw you are in the house again but i am not buying into your antics!'

    Had you been a little more astute you would have noticed that I never attempted to engage with you, but merely showed, (for all who cared to read it), that you are condemned as an anti-Semite by the ADL.

    Do I expect this to bother you? No. You are probably proud to be so-labelled. I expect you deny the 'holocaust' too. You remind me very much of a certain Bishop Williamson.

    Heil Hedgehog!

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  137. John
    all i can say is GOD BLESS THE POPE it seems you broke the seal on 'no comment' here.

    Just as i was giving up on Celtic fc and free speech...you breeched the wall of the 'Belfast vision'. Up the culchies!..oh aye and up the DLA

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  138. criteria for membership of the DLa [Deluded Club- areseholes].

    be totally blnd to all reason...or totally subjective. If you are both you get preium membership.

    NEVER admit there are young people in [nationalist areas especially] our community who are irresponsible or a burden/blight on the face of society.

    No-one in 'our' community is capable of even thinking of fraudulent nor criminal behaviour. Ths is a slur.

    Elderly ex prisoners who should be enjoying the winter of their lives but instead crave attention by parading with paramilitaries and basking in the media attention it draws can NEVER be accused of bringing any trouble upon themselves. Instant dismissal from deluded club on failing to comply with this one.

    'Working' class corruption is non existant and where proven will be refuted bluntly. There is no role for the 'people' to play in cleaning up the country or eradicatng the 'culture' of greed and fraud that has it where it is.

    Finally, we are all peaceful people in the delusional club, BUT we will support the dissident prisoners rights at all times because the brits are cunts.

    If you can adhere to these rules you can join the subjective delusional club and bellyache endlessly at how the rich and the brits have preevented us 'the people' from making Ireland a wonderland. On admission to the club you will recieve a dole card/DLA allowance a free car and the ability to NEVER be wrong...you will be a lifelong victim.

    1 2 3 click click yer back in the room FUKN WANKER....get a life and fuck off!!! lmao.

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  139. Many years ago, before I had even seen the inside of a jail a guy at work said to citing Riobert Bruce 'if at first you don't succeed ...'

    He ws inviting me to complete the sentence which I did.

    'try and try again.'

    To which he responded

    'time to fuck off and stop making a cunt out of yourself.

    I laughed then and laugh now at the thought of it. It is such good advice it remains in my mind four decades on

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  140. ditto
    same people same bleeting... saturation point well and truely passed. slan.

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  141. good call Larry. He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day. You were going nowhere on this one. Cutting your losses and running is the wise decision. Gives you time to reflect and regroup the points you wish to make. Mitchell McLaughlin once told me that sometimes when you meet failure but think you are right you have to step back and take a longer run at the fence you want to jump. In the round it is good advice. In your case compare the wonderfully composed piece you did on Rangers against the rants here. That should let you know where your strengths are. Stick to them.

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  142. Mackers
    ive just reached saturation point with all the negativity, victimhood and what i consder a point blank and deliberate refusal of 'we' the people seeng any fault or complicity in the ills of society. Just tiring and pathetic. Haven't gone away ye know, just having a kit-kat. In desperate need of a happy-pill.

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  143. Regardless, it is best left where it is. Try a whiskey - worked wonders for me last night.

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  144. mackers
    whisky?? ffs do ye not think im a humpy enuff we dumpty? No dramas big man..just a speed bump in the road of life. But Michel McLoughlin giving advce...? Think i'll try elsewhere.

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  145. SMH,

    ‘All the time, all the time in counselling and interventions...’

    I am not aware of that nor have I made much of an effort to find out and you would be more aware than I am.

    ‘Normalisation of abortion is well entrenched.’

    Is it normalisation as a procedure or an ethic?

    I think it makes some sense to make it normal and deprive the religious mob of one of its clubs - the abnormality screech - for beating people over the head with.

    Sorry that I didn’t get to read the link. Resend it as a personal e mail and that way I will have it as a reminder.

    ‘It is different from' gas chambers' in that respect as the foetus belongs to a thinking person who has the right to decide what to do.’

    But we are still left with the dilemma of the right not to be murdered which has to override the right to make choices. I can’t freely choose to murder someone. I could go along with your argument only for the fact that you seem to crash it when you use the term murder.

    ‘Short of standing outside abortion clinics shouting It is murder...’

    But you will probably find that the type of people who do that are those who prefer to see the spread of AIDS rather than approve condom distribution all because of how religion has distorted their moral compass. Alfie had a useful term ‘religious douche bags.’

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