I also voted no in relation to the constitutional changes on the grounds that giving even more power to politicians is a retrograde move. Having stood in the dock facing quite a few glowering judges in my time, awarding the wigs higher wages has no appeal for me. However, if lowering them allows more power to politicians and less ballast to some form of checks and balances, no matter how emaciated, then maintaining the wages as they are is the protection money society has to pay to keep the politicians at bay. Far from ideal it is the least worst option.
Most people seem well enough informed about the issues pertaining to the presidency. But when it comes to the constitutional matters there is a greater degree of doubt and confusion. It is being reported on the main RTE news that many people are voting in the presidential elections but handing back their ballot papers on the constitutional proposals. It is said they simply do not grasp the issues.
There was certainly no comparison between the interrogation of the presidential concerns and the exploration of what was at stake in the constitutional arena. If we are to take the limited exchanges on television, greatly overshadowed as they were by the presidential debates, the case for rejection was better made. That added to the intervention by eight former attorneys general has raised considerable doubt about the value of the proposals. Politicians arguing for an even bigger slice of the power pie than they already have is a recipe for disaster in the area of civil liberties and citizen rights. They will prioritise getting the vote out rather than bringing just verdicts in. Justice be damned so long as they stay in power.
Despite the politics of it all the real democratic reward of the day were the two pints of cold Bud I managed to guzzle on my way back from the polling station. My wife and I called into the local where she sampled the Corona. On the way out we saw two Halloween skeletons sitting on a lounge seat. My wife commented that they must be Sinn Fein voters, fresh from the graveyard, ballot papers in hand. Old personation habits die hard.
We left them in our wake, looking as healthy as the Irish economy.
LOL ;-)
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed that Mackers. Only you could write a whole article about going to vote.
ReplyDeleteThose drinks must have cost a fortune down there. In fact, it looks as if those two skeletons died waiting to see who was buying the next round.
AM and Larry-
ReplyDeleteIs this the Pensive Quill-
Or the Labour Quill-
Dixie,
ReplyDeleteThey are dear alright. That's why we only had two!
Michaelhenry,
I looked for something Left and it was as close as I could get! Nobody from the Socialist Party or People Before Profit were running! It was wasted, sure, as you tell us Martin is going to get in!
Michaelhenry
ReplyDeleteSF can do and say 'whatever' they think suits the moment, that's its call. I dont have to judas myself in that way.
Mickey 'D' is an educated and dignified humane man. He will be a credit to the nation and wont sit at banquets wondering what the 'angle' is for himself like I suspect Gallagher would have been doing.
Marty McGuinness' dirty joe on Monday worked well for Ireland. That's the best I can say for you.
GWON THE 'WEE-MAN' wee men ROCK!!!
BTW Mirriam stated she only votes for women on George Hook's radio show today, is that sexist and politically incorrect? I fear I was correct about her husbands living conditions....in a box under the stairs.
Michael D won it because he sat back while the two dogs bit lumps out of each other, then he nipped in and stole the bone for himself...
ReplyDeleteMcGuinness went into this election prepared to sell out Republicanism in order to buy a few years as President.
ReplyDeleteHe criminalised Republicans by saying that the wrongful killing of innocents was murder. He made it clear he would meet the Queen who presented the murderers of his fellow Derry men with medals.
He didn't, as some claim, do the people of the South a favour by exposing Gallagher as a charlatan.
If Morgan hadn't let the cat out of the bag then McGuinness would still be no wiser and Gallagher would be President.
It was a matter of Morgan having his revenge and he got Marty to stick the knife in Gallaghers back.
Hardly honourable...But thats always been the way of the Shinner leadership.
Dixie
ReplyDeleteAgreed. McGuinness on RTE radio at 9pm hailing a great result for 'republicans'. If he stated for constitutional partitionist accepting reconstructed realists we might be able to begin to believe the odd utterance from him.
Great result for wee'D' what a way to end his career and his days. Delighted for him.
no michaelhenry tonight? he must be hiding under mickey 'D's huge box he's standing on!!
Maybe it would have been a better result for 'republicans' if McGuinness had canvassed as a revolutionary whilst holding the PSNI chief constables hand. The D4 gang may have been less antagonised.
ReplyDeleteSorry if I use this quote again but old James Connolly hits todays Shinner perfectly on the nail....
ReplyDeleteOr should that be head?
"The problem was not how to defeat a nation in arms battling for all that makes life worth living, but how to fool a nation without arms into becoming the accomplice of its oppressor.
And the strategic move in question is already being hailed as a great landmark of national progress.
Yes, ruling by fooling, is a great British art – with great Irish fools to practice on."
James Connolly 1914
Mackers,
ReplyDeleteHomer's Odyesseus would appear honest and upstanding beside McGuinness.
Dixie is so right, he sold his soul and betrayed any semblance of credibility he had left for third place!
Dixie,
ReplyDelete100% right, and I love that quote of Connolly’s. What foresight he had, just look at today’s “fools” (not so much fools, instead, lying bastards who almost fooled everyone else into believing them!). I apologise to everyone on this forum for my frequent use of bad language, it’s because I’m so angry.
Belfastgit,
ReplyDeletefor what it is worth I think the cursing lowers the tone of discussion. But I have done it so often myself that I am not going to complain. Not on the blog but at public debates and such like. On the other hand street language expresses what people feel and if it is not aimed at putting another person down on the grounds of their colour, gender or sexuality orientation, then it passes.
I am trying to get my head around MMcG speech today “this was a victory for republicans says he proudly” so only if I had voted for him could I class myself a republican. I had thought he lost but maybe with tonight’s extra hour’s sleep I will wake up to his victory, wouldn’t that be priceless. I thought the best person by far won today he was the most dignified and presentable candidate we had and just for proof he now created a small piece of history with his large return vote well done I say at least we woke up to the reality of what a President means to us as a nation in these very hard times . MMcG did save the day in his opinion by adopting corner boy politics , Mary the Qango queen may try treading the boards maybe it will stand to her better next time, Poor David heard him this evening he still thinks he has a chance someone tell him its over , Dana ah poor Dana somebody give her a few quid to get her help quickly, And Gallie how unlucky was he nearly there but alas stopped at the border for running his campaign on red diesel , and the bold Gaybo the Ghost now you see him now you don’t .
ReplyDeleteWe now have to wait 7 whole years before TV3 Rte and TnaG run with live debates on The F………ckin ……Pres,.,den……t ……..someone help
The SF spin machine is running at full steam. Many grand words and phrases will be used over the next few days to describe MMcG's performance at the risk of over kill. Certainly, his standing helped to enliven an otherwise lackluster contest between political light weights perhaps with the exception of the eventual winner. But,, with the once formidable FF in a state of meltdown, I suspect the party was hoping to do better than 13.7% of the first preference votes. Gallagher, who was viewed as a FF proxy, seems to have held the line and prevented a run of FF votes to Sinn Fein.
ReplyDeleteWhen all is said and done, the party rank and file will be happy enough with the outcome. A 4% increase is preferable to a percentage loss and, more importantly, it keeps the wheels going forward.
Anthony, playing catchup here mo cara, Belfastgit., I,d rather be called a bastard than a traitor !I for one have no problem calling a spade a spade in this case when refering to Gerry and Marty well those two bastards are traitors..it may be street laguage but its accurate..
ReplyDeleteDunphy show on talk radio pretty vigorous.
ReplyDeleteThe more hear the D4 mod rant on about the IRA the more they resemble Saudi Arabia to the Arab world.
West Brit is absolutely bang on. These guys are ashamed at being mere Irish and second class Englishmen.
Never a word about Loyalism or state evils in the north not to mention ex British servicemen forced to defend their homes from the Brish State forces and Loyalist mobs.
Never be an Irish Republic with those slimedogs around at high levels.
I am reasonably pleased with the outcome of the presidential election and the referendums. The least worst candidate for president won the day; Michael D is an nice, principled centre-left chap who will do no harm while in office - could any of that be said of the other applicants for the job?
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I am happy that the right-wing Fine Gaeler, the crypto-Fianna Failer, the lunatic Catholic and the pseudo-republican were all rejected, not to mention the Denis O'Brien protege. I am a little sorry for David Norris, who, despite his many flaws, seems a decent man. We are all entitled to our own views on the age of consent and I would agree with much - though not all - of what David Norris had said in the past on this matter. However, I think his receiving disability payments from TCD while working full-time as a senator together with his use of that office to influence a court of law made him unsuitable for higher office.
Should Sinn Fein be happy with McGuinness's vote? I'm not sure they should be since he received less than 4% more in first preferences than SF did in the last general election. I myself assumed he would do better, particulary after a recent Irish Times poll put SF support at 18%. I think this relatively poor performance can be put down to his and his party's prevaricating on the issue of his role in the IRA and the question of whether or not certain IRA killings were murders. In previous posts on the Quill, Anthony suggested a very simple yet truthful way for McGuinness to deal with questions about his IRA past, namely to refuse to comment on the issue until there is "a proper truth recovery process that ensures people are not prosecuted for activities during a war that is now over. On the issue of IRA "murders", I think McGuinness should simply say that he doesn't think they were murders, but that they were killings carried out by a guerrilla army in the course of a conflict. My personal opinion is that though many of these killings may have been wrong, they were not murders.
In relation to the referenda, I should say that I had been in favour of both until about a week ago when Vincent Browne's arguments in print and on television persuaded me of the dangers of the inquiries amendment in its current form. I still think the judges' pay amendment is reasonable enough.
ReplyDelete