DEE FENNELL reflects on the double standard applied by Sinn Fein when it asserts that young people are being targeted for "radicalisation."

In recent weeks there has been an emphasis within State-complicit media outlets regarding the supposed "radicalisation" of young people. This has invariably been propagated by those with a background in British Crown Forces, members of Sinn Féin, unionist elected representatives or from the ranks of the ever increasing "commentator" clique that is made up of those who would have previously been one of the aforementioned.

This "radicalisation" is only described as such when it references contemporary Republicans generally (and more often than not Saoradh specifically) attempting to engage with, recruit and empower young people. The "radicalisation" description conveniently ignores that all other political parties in Ireland also have youth wings that encourage young people to get involved in activism.

They also fail to mention the recruiting sergeants armed with promises of worldwide travel that attend schools careers events and further education colleges' Fresher Days on behalf of "Her Majesty's Armed Forces." These well polished mercenaries are paid to seek out 16 year olds willing to put on jackboots that can replace worn trainers as home to their confidence and self-esteem.

My own experience of becoming involved in politics could be used as a case in point when analysing the hypocrisy of some, but not all, of those using the "radicalisation" description. I joined Sinn Féin Youth in late 1996 at the age of 14. Locally, our SFY cumann was established simply by changing the name of a local republican youth organisation made up of children that was established in the summer of 1996 by the Republican Movement in Ardoyne. The sole purpose of this youth organisation that was now being complemented, rather than replaced, by a SFY cumann: simply to engage in rioting during the Drumcree dispute. Was this "radicalisation"?

Throughout my involvement in Sinn Féin Youth there were regular updates, briefings and educational talks. These were mainly facilitated and/or delivered by those who the Belfast leadership of Sinn Féin thought would have the most impact on impressionable and idealistic young people. And they were right to assume that those with most influence would be those with a history of involvement in armed struggle.

These Republicans included several ex-prisoners that had admitted and/or been previously convicted in Diplock Courts for the deaths of civilians. These civilian casualties occurred accidentally or intentionally in neighbouring loyalist areas. Was this "radicalisation"?

Sinn Féin Youth at this time was a manifestation of militant or radical Republicanism. It took part in direct action against the British Army in the Six Counties, confronted the RUC and opposed their introduction to communities via the SDLP, NIO and Catholic Church. SFY took part in protests as part of the Saoirse campaign that called for the release of Republican POWs. These included occupying UTV studios and rooftop protests at City Hall. We were involved in opposing sectarian marches in North Belfast, Derry, Orneau Road, Garvaghy Road and elsewhere. We built links with other revolutionary youth movements across the planet. And we did all this while facing the informed risk of imprisonment by the State and death or attack by her loyalist proxies.

All this was authorised by the overall Sinn Féin leadership, and at a local level by the Comhairle Ceantair. Even our official logo was an Easter Lily in the shape of a flame coming from a petrol bomb. Was this "radicalisation"?

Sinn Féin Youth, as a bloc, voted against the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. Some of us actively campaigned for a no vote. And how did the leadership mainly ensure these young people didn't go elsewhere, at least at that time? They brought the big guns in (pardon the pun), the men and women who had done "the business" to assure us that "this GFA was a tool to be used", that they were going to "wreck Stormont from within" and prove the state was "unworkable". Was this "radicalisation"?

My honest answer would be that if it was "radicalisation" then it failed. Sure, many joined the wider Republican Movement at the earliest opportunity when reaching the age of 17. For a lot of us we reached that age after the signing of the oft-implied cut-off point for everything that was bad, the Good Friday Agreement. And while others, including our then Belfast organiser, are now members of Saoradh or remain opposed to British occupation in other ways, for others of that time they now reside politically in the ranks of the pro-austerity, pro-Crown Forces, pro-Stormont and constitutional nationalist entity that Sinn Féin has become. Our then National Organiser is an elected member of Leinster House. One SFY activist of the late 90s was even, until recently, an unelected and co-opted SDLP councillor after serving for a while as a 26-County Labour Senator.

Rather than "radicalisation" I would argue that what SFY activists back then had was an introduction to radical politics and an informal political education that was grounded in revolutionary ideology. An ideology centred around secularism, equality, socialism and a overarching desire to achieve Irish Freedom. And some of us have attempted to remain true to that.

But for argument's sake let's say it was "radicalisation". Let's say that Republicans, activists like me who are now in their mid 30s to early 40s, actually were "radicalised". That we who had our first political experiences and education as members of Sinn Féin were "radicalised" by older activists. That the accusation now being made by members of that party, and others, with regards to Saoradh also applies to Sinn Féin when we were the youth.

If we are now the monsters that some of those most vocal in their recent criticism of us have stated, then they must take responsibility and adopt their role as Dr Frankenstein. They moulded us, educated us and led us. They taught us how to empower communities, how to oppose the State, how to mobilise, how to engage the media, how to debate and analyse. They taught my generation of Republican activists everything we know.

The salient point in this analysis is that Sinn Féin changed and we didn't. That doesn't make us monsters. However they became robots. The very law-abiding robots that Bobby Sands wrote about. We were not radicalised, they were normalised. And if they are honest they will admit that it is the guilt of this that fuels their hatred of those, including Saoradh, that challenge their continuing role as an establishment party.

Nothing else.

Dee Fennell is North Belfast republican

Radicalisation Rubbish

DEE FENNELL reflects on the double standard applied by Sinn Fein when it asserts that young people are being targeted for "radicalisation."

In recent weeks there has been an emphasis within State-complicit media outlets regarding the supposed "radicalisation" of young people. This has invariably been propagated by those with a background in British Crown Forces, members of Sinn Féin, unionist elected representatives or from the ranks of the ever increasing "commentator" clique that is made up of those who would have previously been one of the aforementioned.

This "radicalisation" is only described as such when it references contemporary Republicans generally (and more often than not Saoradh specifically) attempting to engage with, recruit and empower young people. The "radicalisation" description conveniently ignores that all other political parties in Ireland also have youth wings that encourage young people to get involved in activism.

They also fail to mention the recruiting sergeants armed with promises of worldwide travel that attend schools careers events and further education colleges' Fresher Days on behalf of "Her Majesty's Armed Forces." These well polished mercenaries are paid to seek out 16 year olds willing to put on jackboots that can replace worn trainers as home to their confidence and self-esteem.

My own experience of becoming involved in politics could be used as a case in point when analysing the hypocrisy of some, but not all, of those using the "radicalisation" description. I joined Sinn Féin Youth in late 1996 at the age of 14. Locally, our SFY cumann was established simply by changing the name of a local republican youth organisation made up of children that was established in the summer of 1996 by the Republican Movement in Ardoyne. The sole purpose of this youth organisation that was now being complemented, rather than replaced, by a SFY cumann: simply to engage in rioting during the Drumcree dispute. Was this "radicalisation"?

Throughout my involvement in Sinn Féin Youth there were regular updates, briefings and educational talks. These were mainly facilitated and/or delivered by those who the Belfast leadership of Sinn Féin thought would have the most impact on impressionable and idealistic young people. And they were right to assume that those with most influence would be those with a history of involvement in armed struggle.

These Republicans included several ex-prisoners that had admitted and/or been previously convicted in Diplock Courts for the deaths of civilians. These civilian casualties occurred accidentally or intentionally in neighbouring loyalist areas. Was this "radicalisation"?

Sinn Féin Youth at this time was a manifestation of militant or radical Republicanism. It took part in direct action against the British Army in the Six Counties, confronted the RUC and opposed their introduction to communities via the SDLP, NIO and Catholic Church. SFY took part in protests as part of the Saoirse campaign that called for the release of Republican POWs. These included occupying UTV studios and rooftop protests at City Hall. We were involved in opposing sectarian marches in North Belfast, Derry, Orneau Road, Garvaghy Road and elsewhere. We built links with other revolutionary youth movements across the planet. And we did all this while facing the informed risk of imprisonment by the State and death or attack by her loyalist proxies.

All this was authorised by the overall Sinn Féin leadership, and at a local level by the Comhairle Ceantair. Even our official logo was an Easter Lily in the shape of a flame coming from a petrol bomb. Was this "radicalisation"?

Sinn Féin Youth, as a bloc, voted against the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. Some of us actively campaigned for a no vote. And how did the leadership mainly ensure these young people didn't go elsewhere, at least at that time? They brought the big guns in (pardon the pun), the men and women who had done "the business" to assure us that "this GFA was a tool to be used", that they were going to "wreck Stormont from within" and prove the state was "unworkable". Was this "radicalisation"?

My honest answer would be that if it was "radicalisation" then it failed. Sure, many joined the wider Republican Movement at the earliest opportunity when reaching the age of 17. For a lot of us we reached that age after the signing of the oft-implied cut-off point for everything that was bad, the Good Friday Agreement. And while others, including our then Belfast organiser, are now members of Saoradh or remain opposed to British occupation in other ways, for others of that time they now reside politically in the ranks of the pro-austerity, pro-Crown Forces, pro-Stormont and constitutional nationalist entity that Sinn Féin has become. Our then National Organiser is an elected member of Leinster House. One SFY activist of the late 90s was even, until recently, an unelected and co-opted SDLP councillor after serving for a while as a 26-County Labour Senator.

Rather than "radicalisation" I would argue that what SFY activists back then had was an introduction to radical politics and an informal political education that was grounded in revolutionary ideology. An ideology centred around secularism, equality, socialism and a overarching desire to achieve Irish Freedom. And some of us have attempted to remain true to that.

But for argument's sake let's say it was "radicalisation". Let's say that Republicans, activists like me who are now in their mid 30s to early 40s, actually were "radicalised". That we who had our first political experiences and education as members of Sinn Féin were "radicalised" by older activists. That the accusation now being made by members of that party, and others, with regards to Saoradh also applies to Sinn Féin when we were the youth.

If we are now the monsters that some of those most vocal in their recent criticism of us have stated, then they must take responsibility and adopt their role as Dr Frankenstein. They moulded us, educated us and led us. They taught us how to empower communities, how to oppose the State, how to mobilise, how to engage the media, how to debate and analyse. They taught my generation of Republican activists everything we know.

The salient point in this analysis is that Sinn Féin changed and we didn't. That doesn't make us monsters. However they became robots. The very law-abiding robots that Bobby Sands wrote about. We were not radicalised, they were normalised. And if they are honest they will admit that it is the guilt of this that fuels their hatred of those, including Saoradh, that challenge their continuing role as an establishment party.

Nothing else.

Dee Fennell is North Belfast republican

23 comments:

  1. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=fZSU7YZX_NE

    He is 100% in this analysis and the words "they changed we didnt" drive it all home. I spoke at event in Fermanagh last January and met there a man who first approached me at the age of 14 and asked why I had not considered Joining the Republican movement yet. So I did and within a few years experienced my first political arrest (link) The same man was writing on Facebook recently that those who continued to reject British Rule in Ireland were criminals. "They changed we didn't" sums it up. Good read.

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  2. The article does not take into consideration the reasoning of stalwart Republican critics of SF. While Dee is spot on about SF his inability to grasp the problems of trenchant pursuit of a failed strategy does not bode well. The author seems unable to grasp the concept of changing and adapt strategy to suit the political landscape. The tactics of violent dissidents are only going to result in causing loss and suffering but never the objectives they claim to be trying to achieve. SF are unabashed hypocrites who would sell their own children for a few extra votes. But those who steadfastedly adhere to destructive principles and tactics do not offer a viable alternative. What does Dee's argument achieve that 'they remain the same but SF changed'? When remaining the same is ineffective at it's best, but their best never features when violent dissidents have been consistently incompetent and impotent for over 20 years.

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  3. True words. However what young Damien fails to mention is that the old regime's failures have been inherited by the new generation. The provos failed and failed miserably. It seems that Damien and people of his mindset are adhering to that old Beckett adage "Try again, fail again, fail better" and thus to quote a SF slogan circa 1998, perhaps Dee it really is "time for change; time to go!"

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  4. While arguments are strong and just to abandon violence, SF have also abandoned the objective of a totally free united Ireland. The proposed agreed Ireland is not it and they've no right to abandon the objective even if they propose new means.

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  5. No manifestation of Irish Republicanism has succeeded totally. Each has either compromised or suffered defeat; those who fail to compromise become marginalised, largely irrelevant in the mainstream and eventually an embarrassment if not to themselves, to those who previously subscribed to the dogma.

    I haven't seen or heard anything from this current band of outliers which suggests they can escape such inevitable gravitational pulls. What lies ahead is predictable; yet more incompetency, further fragmentation and again destination failure.

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  6. Great respect for Dee and spot on with everything he said, well said Dee.

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  7. While I don’t remember the exact year, I recall the shooting down of a planned petrol bomb attack on Balfour Avenue, Lower Ormeau, during the period referred to (it was a summer in the ‘90s when protests against Orange marches were in full swing). Readied for launching, with a full plan in place regards from where and what houses and alleys would be used as the escape route, local command ordered the ‘young folk’ involved against the ignition of a full-on riot. As far as I’m concerned, this shows that, even as far back as then, the direction of the movement was away from the ‘politics of confrontation’ and towards more ‘publicly acceptable’ approaches. It’s not, then, a case of two neatly overlapping comparisons, as here presented.

    The incident at Crossmaglen, too, was entirely a venture of the youth themselves, as far as I recall. It shouldn’t be attributed to the Army encouraging it. Indeed the youth set up was looked at very unfavourably — chiefly because of how the members conducted themselves, in particular how they liked to imagine themselves as though beyond the authority of the movement. Rather than being ‘groomed’, the truth is that that outfit was mostly looked on with disdain and gave a lot of unwanted bother. It should never have been set up and quickly became a standing joke in house. It quickly became, too, a gateway for those in search of a career or who had been pinpointed for careers, rather than an entry point to Republican struggle as first envisaged.

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  8. TLDR; Dee Fennell admits that Sinn Fein/Republican youth groups were set up for the sole reaon of rioting.

    ". I joined Sinn Féin Youth in late 1996 at the age of 14. Locally, our SFY cumann was established simply by changing the name of a local republican youth organisation made up of children that was established in the summer of 1996 by the Republican Movement in Ardoyne. The sole purpose of this youth organisation that was now being complemented, rather than replaced, by a SFY cumann: simply to engage in rioting during the Drumcree dispute."

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  9. Can someone explain to me where do they think the 'Dee Fennel's' of this island are meant to go..? I have read the piece several times and I personally find it flawless...

    That aside, I left the island for the best part of 30yrs..today I am back in my old stomping ground and found more oxymoron's (peacelines) to navigate around, sectarianism is on the rise, more young people dead than during the conflict, non functioning assembly that politicians are getting very well paid for not doing jobs they were elected for, victims of sexual abuse allowed to die before they receive justice..the list of what is wrong is endless.. I know it isn't the 'Dee Fennel's' of this island who created the mess.

    'They' get a lot of flak from all quarters that in the cold light of day isn't justified. Before Lyra McKee was murdered she was shouting from the roof tops abouts about equality for the LBGTQ community but when push came to shove..Both the big two (SF/DUP) paid no more than lip service to her calls but today both use her name to slander who ever for what is wrong when they both made the mess..Wasn't Saoradh that much is clear...

    What I believe is some people don't like the truth...160 people dead today at the hands of paramilitaries since 1998 and at least 4,000 dead due to a complete failure of GFA...Do the maths yourselves.

    I have said it a few times on TPQ..I will never vote until there is a OIOV and on the ballot paper both Westminster and Brussels fcuk off and let the Irish sort out the mess other countries made here...

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  10. Young Fennell has been in more groups than Roy Wood. At least Wood had some success with each. If dee was a singer (not in Castlereagh) his Cds would be found in the bargain bucket at Asda rather than lining the shelves of, forward thinking, youth culture. Yesterdays man indeed!

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  11. Seamus mallon tells us the ballot box is not the way to realising Republican political aspirations, something Bertie Ahern another architect of the "PROCESS" said years ago.

    James Mc Clean is branded "divisive" for refusing to honour the people who would use the body parts of a murder victim as an ashtray.

    Reality is the British state and those who would appoint the head of a murder gang as head of their police force in the 26 want to quench a Republican voice.

    This is not goimg to happen.

    Our political position is unbreakable.

    Armed actions allow a smoke s reen to be thrown up before it. So lets not continue with them.

    The force of our political will and the calibre of person within our political family is fearesome.

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  12. Frankie

    the 'Dee Fennell's' can continue what they're at but the harsh truth is that they ain't going anywhere politically. They're enmeshed in a failed and outdated tradition of resistance. They're attempting the impossible. They're promulgating an implausible political message, advocating for an improbable dream. They're deluded idealists chasing illusion and chimera on the way to their sanctified mythical 'republic'.

    Anyone with a brain in their head can see that they're chasing fools' gold. Seamus Mallon has called it right once again. He's bang on the money when he states that its unlikely there'll ever even be an 'agreed Ireland', never mind Saoradh's fantasies about a 'United Ireland', without 40% support from both traditions. And even then the preliminary will have to be be a confederation between the 'Six' and '26'. A former PSNI man may be running the 'Guards' but you, I nor Dee will live to see 'Guards' in Belfast!

    Guys like Dee will probably never compromise and yet, like the rest of us, they will have to bare the consequences of their own actions. Where that might bring them is no place useful.

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  13. HJ,

    Spot on. As Anthony said, there's no discussion in the south regarding a UI either. But that's not to say we shouldn't increase and strengthen bonds between the people on the island for both our benefit. I'm completely opposed to a hard border for this reason. But the Dee's of this world are living in the 70's and 80's.

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  14. Henry/Steve,

    Let's take Dee and Saoradh out of the equation. Why do teenagers become radicalized in Palestine? Do you think it is because of Hamas or Israeli policy directed at Palestinians? Same in South Africa, was it the ANC who radicalized teenagers or apartheid? Who radicalized young and old wear yellow vests in France, civil rights marches in the 1960's in the USA, inner city riots Britain experienced during the 1980's...The list is endless. Peter Doak from Leeds university pointed out in an article about poverty in Derry in the The Conversation that ended .. .In a place where poverty and worklessness are commonplace, dissident republicanism offers a sense of meaning to some young people who are alienated from the 1998 vision of power sharing, peace and prosperity – none of which have materialised in Derry......


    In North Belfast children as young as 11 are arranging fights on social media . And recently a 12 year old and a 17 year old got arrested in Derry after the police got petrol bombed. Derry Sinn Fein Councilor Aileen Mellon, who lives in the area said she does not believe Dissident Republicans had anything to do with the disorder


    Recently some of the angry young people who have been marginalized and radicalized due to a complete failure of the GFA,not by dissident Irish Republican ideology, became first time voters in the local council elections and European elections and exercised their options. Some of them voted for Eamonn McCann who has called for non violent civil disobedience in the event of a hard border after Brexit. Some helped
    Gary Donnelly get elected on the first count. They also heard Gary Donnelly calling for the NIRA to put away their guns hours after Lyra McKee was murdered because on too many levels guns on the streets at this point in time is wrong, serves no purpose and a lot of the hard work already done could be undone in a heart beat..The rest voted between SDLP, Alliance and Greens..SF and DUP didn't do great by any account.

    So far we know in Belfast and Derry kids from 11 years of age upwards feeling angry at a failure of local politics/GFA with no connection to dissident Republican's have the skills not only how to evade the police but also know how to arrange fights on social media that could lead to jail, death or both also know where would be the best place to store petrol bombs to throw at the police at a later date are giving their votes to dissenting voices who want to see an end to partition.

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  15. The Shankill, Woodvale and Ardoyne are also in poverty Frankie, and suicide rates are staggering across the board. Not sure we can lay the blame totally on the GFA, I for one certainly lay the blame for late end stage Capitalism at the door of the Tories with their austerity measures for everyone but themselves.

    But I agree, total failure of local politics creates a vacuum and nature abhors those. Question is, will the young be wise enough to choose their leaders carefully?

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    Replies
    1. Steve on your last point...All you have to do is look at the recent election results and see who gained and who didn't.. We know neither the DUP or SF vote didn't increase..UU are a beaten docket. As for North Belfast, I walk the streets everyday and I see the poverty, lack of investment, the point on suicide rates..I seen up close an personal in the Sandy Row for over two years how bad the problem is.......

      Delete
  16. Frankie,

    your comparisons with Palestine and South Africa are stretching it. Yes, sections of the population in Derry as elsewhere are marginalised. They are now mostly disadvantaged by poverty rather than by excessive political discrimination as existed in the past. There's significant differences between those two positions. Its almost an insult to Palestinians to compare their plight with that of sections of Northern disadvantaged areas.

    Marginalised communities exist in Loyalist enclaves too. There is social deprivation in the South as there is in the UK. I heard a radio documentary a while ago about horrific challenges faced by teachers in some of the most impoverished parts in the North East of England where children arrive at school who aren't potty trained. Some of these unfortunate 'mites' can only eat their school meals with their hands. Teachers have to teach the kids to use a spoon!

    Sure, there has been neglect by Governments but government can only do so much. Citizens, both individually and collectively do have rights: yet even the poor and the marginalised can't be totally absolved from some level of personal responsibility. Dissenting Republicans could better apply their energies to tasks which address core and fundamental societal breakdown issues which could bare so much more fruit rather than pursuing idiotic fantasies which have failed over and over, and over and over repeatedly. If there's an ounce of integrity, a modicum of true care and compassion, amongst those who purport concern for these disadvantaged communities then they need to educate themselves, suspend their ego along with their idolised All-Ireland delusions and put tested and grounded strategies in place that allow first for as many as possible in these fractured communities to reclaim a greater sense of personal dignity, agency and responsibility.

    Regrettably these self-appointed heroes are deaf to suggestions from anyone and everyone save but those ever-decreasing few who enthusiastically don fatigues and parade to their fanatical drumbeat.

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  17. Steve/Henry,

    So you both believe no one is either talking about or wanting a United Ireland. It is one of the main topics of conversation on TPQ and you both are talking about the non merits of a UI here, so to say no one is talking about it is wrong.

    A few weeks ago Dieter Reinisch wrote a piece about 'Why there will always be support for Dissident Republicans'. In 2017 in the Irish Times Richard English wrote a piece that made the same argument. The reason why they haven't gone away is a complete failure of the GFA and partition.. the same reason 11 & 12 yr olds are disenfranchised and angry enough to throw petrol bombs at the police who have no involvement with republican's, dissident or otherwise ...

    In September 2018 an article in The Guardian by Rory Carroll asked “Talk of a UI is rife. Is it all fantasy?” Worth a read. In November 2018 Kate Hickey reported on Irish Central about Irish Unity..Her report starts exactly like this...


    The first survey of its kind the “Unifying Ireland Tracking Poll” commissioned by Fianna Fail Senator Mark Daly showed that 73.4% of residents in the Republic of Ireland would be in favor of unifying the people of Ireland.


    In January 2019 Oxford University Politic blog made a case as to why Irish reunification is the most likely outcome because of Brexit amongst other things...

    So you both were saying there is no talk of a UI...(I have lots of links...)

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    Replies
    1. Frankie, billions of people talk of either Allah, Yahweh or some other God. They aspire for a 'life after death' but none of that makes of itself for an absolute truth.
      Similarly, just because talk of a United Ireland is more prevalent doesn't necessarily mean that its a given.

      Should it ever come about Mallon's prognosis is the most likely path to a United Ireland. Even in a United Ireland there will still be pockets of deprivation; "blessed are the poor, for they are always with us" and all that.

      The way I see it, the poor are being fed nationalistic opiates by those who are already hooked. Its all just junkies pedaling false hope, the dealer exploiting his fellows to get his own needs met.

      What Saoradh offers is fool's gold.
      Unfortunately there's rarely a shortcut, or effortless route, to pulling oneself out of poverty. According to the times, the State may or may not provide support but the citizens, individually and collectively, must exorcise good judgement as to where they direct their efforts. They ought also be judicious in whom they place their trust.

      The Republican myth is a shiny thing that has fooled and seduced way too many for way too long ... way beyond time that lesson was learnt.

      Delete
  18. "The reason why they haven't gone away is a complete failure of the GFA and partition.. the same reason 11 & 12 yr olds are disenfranchised and angry enough to throw petrol bombs at the police who have no involvement with republican's, dissident or otherwise"

    Not sure many 11 year olds would understand the political nuances Frankie, I'd hazard a guess and say those involved at that young age were bored or led astray by those who should know better.

    "In September 2018 an article in The Guardian by Rory Carroll asked “Talk of a UI is rife. Is it all fantasy?” Worth a read. In November 2018 Kate Hickey reported on Irish Central about Irish Unity..Her report starts exactly like this..."

    One poll a consensus does not make, I recall Anthony mentioning before that he has heard little talk of a UI down south of the border, care to comment AM?

    I've said before on TPQ I'm not opposed to a UI if it's peaceful, the Dee Fennel's and the ilk of Saorah instantly put my back up with aggressive talk and apologies for those spilling blood on the streets for nothing.

    That poll would have been voted on the principal of consent too I'll bet, and that's were it fails Frank. The triple lock ensures nothing happens to NI's status unless the UK government, the NI people as a vast majority, and the Republic vote for it.

    Now, do you really expect the Dail to vote for another million odd troublesome shinners and bewildered prods to join them? Especially when that poll actually states "Sixty-three percent of those surveyed believe that the government should establish an all-island citizens assembly to look at all the issues in advance of a referendum."?

    That's a direct replacement to the Dail's sovereignty. The turkey's may vote for Christmas but the farmer runs the farm.



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  19. Steve - there is not the slightest interest detectable in it down here. Most people have it as a preference but they always have. Their attitude towards it is probably the same as it is towards the environment. They prefer rather than want change and will balk at higher taxes to secure it. Conor Cruise O'Brien, playing on the Frank Kitson book, called it a Low Intensity Aspiration. I think he got it right. The key question in all of this is how would the people in the North vote in a border poll? I don't believe a Catholic majority is an indication of any real change given the historical preferences of Northern nationalism, always more fractured than unionism on the border question.

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  20. It is quite clear the people of the 6 definitely do not want in any shape or form the politics of Britain dictating their families futures, rees mogg, Gove, Javid- listen and take note- th Conservative Party canidate got 662 votes in the recent European election in the 6, Dissident Republican Gary Donnelly got more , thats more, than double, thats double this vote.

    In an official poll held at the time of the European election only 19% of people in the 26 said they would vote against a united Ireland.

    Eileen Paisley gave her consent to a united Ireland, Winston Churchill was in favour of a united Ireland
    The Star Trek writers wanted a united Ireland , I want a united Ireland.... my

    Away to lie down

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  21. As a 26 County resident I will add that rather than there being no discussion around a UI there is little mainstream discussion. In the unquantifiable realms of general public debate I can tell you that I talk about it constantly and there are some like minded people in my regular path, so in my eyesight there is some regular offline discussion and its all positive in terms of a UI. We have read in the past week some sentiment of this nature in the form of exit polls so really the only real way of quantifying it is a vote and the OIOV proposal is starting to resonate with me more and more given the limitations of democracy within the GFA triple lock. I read the GFA cover to cover once but on reading and reading further interpretations it does become apparent how its another anglo irish agreement in terms of design on how it splits nationalists and Republicans to the degree that they are so polarised to be weak. Fabulous counter insurgency technique, does very little for bringing people together. Eire nua on the other hand does that in a real way. A UI is inevitable, I don't know when but when something is pending, then it happens at least eventually but for social and economic harmony we really need to look again.

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