tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post7899857641445134046..comments2024-03-28T13:35:30.500+00:00Comments on TPQ: The Problem With Demanding Sackcloth And AshesAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-82663319296740289512021-12-28T09:30:45.009+00:002021-12-28T09:30:45.009+00:00Henry Joy Comments
Yeah, all that's true Fra...<b> Henry Joy Comments </b><br /><br />Yeah, all that's true Frankie, though the point I was attempting to make was somewhat different. I like Petersen's thinking about the tension that exists between chaos and order. Implicit in such thinking is that political systems ideally evolve to meditate the chaotic and that governments ideally govern for the purpose of firstly establishing and AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17029521592676773302021-12-26T12:10:26.643+00:002021-12-26T12:10:26.643+00:00HenryJoy,
But here's the thing, and it needs...HenryJoy,<br /><br /><i> But here's the thing, and it needs to be remembered that conflict, like that which we experienced generally only arises as a result of the failure of politics. (<b>and where does responsibly fall for that?</b>)</i><br /><br />At a guess the voters. They say one of the signs of madness is doing the same over and over and expecting a different result each time. Voters frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24886780639619472992021-12-26T09:52:30.076+00:002021-12-26T09:52:30.076+00:00Henry Joy Comments
Brandon,
thanks for clarifyi...<b> Henry Joy Comments </b><br /><br />Brandon,<br /><br />thanks for clarifying and acknowledging that raw sectarianism was a much greater motivation for Loyalists' actions than it was for Republicans. That Loyalism's campaign impacted on the Provo AC decision to capitulate is indeed unproven but you can be sure Alex Reid, Hume et al were leveraging the consequences of the random murder AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-78556417090598835372021-12-24T15:37:01.047+00:002021-12-24T15:37:01.047+00:00@ Henry Joy
I think that the loyalists campaigns ...@ Henry Joy<br /><br />I think that the loyalists campaigns of sectarian murderer had a minimal effect on the decision of the Provo Army Council to call off their campaign. I actually believe that the sectarian murder of nationalists by loyalists sustained and emboldened republican violence. The subject of Mulvenna's critic on Twitter, Billy Hutchinson, acknowledged that sectarian attacks Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16088834767763217362021-12-24T09:12:52.306+00:002021-12-24T09:12:52.306+00:00Henry Joy Comments
When reduced to it's most ...<b> Henry Joy Comments</b><br /><br />When reduced to it's most base, all conflict has it's genesis in impositions of will. Conflict survives and thrives, escalates or de-escalates dependent upon intensities of response.<br /><br />The responses of political Unionism in all it's collective guises has been for by the greatest and largest part disproportionate. Whether it was in theirAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14687528790517988332021-12-23T20:23:20.070+00:002021-12-23T20:23:20.070+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Christopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-37975477980858311352021-12-23T19:05:35.685+00:002021-12-23T19:05:35.685+00:00It's a delicate and messy scenario.
Having ha...It's a delicate and messy scenario.<br /><br />Having had a distant relative killed by the UVF (and seeing the devastation that remains nearly 40 years on), I am very sympathetic to the original commentator. However, I am someone who feels that every area of life and history should be studied and up for debate, so I am utterly sympathetic to Gareth (who is an excellent researcher and academicChristopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-79272185353644428082021-12-23T00:40:08.691+00:002021-12-23T00:40:08.691+00:00"I find that former loyalist paramilitaries c..."I find that former loyalist paramilitaries can be capable of the most candid revelations about their terrorist actions in a way that is far more unusually found with republicans."<br /><br />A lot of the actions were taken in the heat of rage and retaliation. When peace became apparent that it was hanging around and the Provos were serious about it, a lot of combatants had time on Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9369825228390360382021-12-22T21:34:52.809+00:002021-12-22T21:34:52.809+00:00@ Steve R
Sadly, I think you're right. I thi...@ Steve R<br /><br />Sadly, I think you're right. I think that the reasons for that are worthy of exploration.<br /><br />By the same token, and paradoxically, I don't think someone from outwith NI could have made the contacts and secured the first hand accounts Mulvenna has - and I wonder, also, if someone from within the PUL community would have been able to do the same.<br /><br />Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-19112806480880304712021-12-22T20:30:32.884+00:002021-12-22T20:30:32.884+00:00"I wonder if someone from the PUL community w..."I wonder if someone from the PUL community would a/ be able to make contacts within republicanism on a similar level as Mulvenna has within loyalism, and b/ find similar/better/worse levels of suspicion (and perhaps more than that) from within their host community."<br /><br />That would be a worthy endeavor indeed but I fear the reprisal by my own community would be stark, and any Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-52698282405826290822021-12-22T12:35:03.160+00:002021-12-22T12:35:03.160+00:00Interestingly, the 1991 mobile shop killings were ...Interestingly, the 1991 mobile shop killings were discussed when I met up with a couple of guys, both of whom are working on a book on the Troubles at the moment. One compared the killings to the IRA's campaign of murdering contractors engaged on military installations, on the grounds that the mobile shop refused to serve security force personnel. I countered this by saying that businesses Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91763364103663901912021-12-22T10:29:28.571+00:002021-12-22T10:29:28.571+00:00This piece is being so well read already.
Gareth ...This piece is being so well read already.<br /><br />Gareth Mulvenna is a studious writer and erudite researcher. His work is pioneering and I have found it immensely rewarding when reading it. I found his recent book with Billy Hutchinson excellent. <br /><br />That is not to say that I don't get why the relative of those killed by Loyalism can be angry. But a victim's perspective and AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.com