tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post7867571535713592174..comments2024-03-28T17:44:07.653+00:00Comments on TPQ: Constitutional Change On The Way?AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-73614225302862310162021-06-07T08:37:27.127+01:002021-06-07T08:37:27.127+01:00It would be ideal if a united Ireland could be ach...It would be ideal if a united Ireland could be achieved without bloodshed. We have reached the point where those pushing for it are not shedding blood in its pursuit, other than a few who have no consequence to the outcome one way or the other. The focus should not be on achieving a united Ireland without bloodshed but on the current threat to maintain partition with bloodshed. Therein lies the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-89391509026956018402021-06-06T12:07:59.007+01:002021-06-06T12:07:59.007+01:00You see, we actually do agree on so many things, a...You see, we actually do agree on so many things, and I always find debating with you enlightening and entertaining.<br />You are right of course that we will get whatever change or not that people want.<br />This whole debate began with me suggesting an alternative view on how Irish unity might be achieved without bloodshed. I'm grateful that you allowed me the space to put that view. WhetherMike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-50249362138884229902021-06-06T11:54:20.048+01:002021-06-06T11:54:20.048+01:00Isn't that sort of the point - that most are s...Isn't that sort of the point - that most are so detached from it that it might just as well be a quaint theological position and defended with the same logic as quaint theological positions - claiming its logic is so obvious if only ...? <br />If these things were so obvious people would see them for what they are. Obviously, they are not obvious to those who have a different view.<br />I am AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15305705103140939982021-06-06T10:02:32.236+01:002021-06-06T10:02:32.236+01:00'So few buy into the Marxist theory of value y...'So few buy into the Marxist theory of value you describe that it might as well be an explanation of transubstantiation.'<br />I wonder how many have actually considered it or have even come across it. Of those who have, none have offered a rational counter to it, and its logic is so obvious, as we have seen recently during the pandemic. Humans need food, clothing, housing, medical care Mike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-19370191613433430372021-06-06T07:03:59.502+01:002021-06-06T07:03:59.502+01:00Disagreeing is exactly what we are doing. At least...Disagreeing is exactly what we are doing. At least we can both stay out of the gulag for doing it!<br />I think there are plenty of societal types which are worth striving for which are not characterised by socialism: societies that are secular, allow women full control over their bodies; value free inquiry; are not fascist; are democratic rather than dictatorial. So few buy into the Marxist AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-54456041127600183722021-06-05T22:53:42.667+01:002021-06-05T22:53:42.667+01:00We'll have to agree to disagree on this Anthon...We'll have to agree to disagree on this Anthony. In my opinion the only society worth fighting for is a socialist one. Since workers create all value, workers should control society in their interests, and it's not the business of our class to fight for territory which will still be controlled by the class which exploits us. Uniting the island under the current conditions changes nothing Mike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15828356635559478902021-06-05T20:33:39.323+01:002021-06-05T20:33:39.323+01:00Is there not a form of stageism implicit in your o...Is there not a form of stageism implicit in your own suggestion - a UI only being worthwhile if first the stage of making it more acceptable to unionists is completed. This is the sort of thinking that informed stageism.<br />There is nothing abstract about looking at why unionists might not want unity. There is everything abstract about uttering the slogan socialism totally abstracted from any AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-33160285298740456582021-06-05T19:14:37.369+01:002021-06-05T19:14:37.369+01:00All I can say to that is that 'stageism' i...All I can say to that is that 'stageism' is abstract and has been proven to be so.<br />Yes, I get your point about a British Sec Of State deciding when there can be a referendum, and I find that sickening to be honest. Perhaps that should be done by an independent international person.<br />There's nothing abstract about suggesting that we should look at the reasons why the working Mike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-34746157102441880162021-06-05T18:09:19.508+01:002021-06-05T18:09:19.508+01:00That would not make it any less a democratic decis...That would not make it any less a democratic decision by the people in the North who might not be interested in what Leftists think about it. It would be a more democratic decision than one that denied unity if a majority wanted it. These things cannot be treated in the abstract.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-10527966504147581802021-06-05T17:57:05.014+01:002021-06-05T17:57:05.014+01:00Anthony, because it would be based on uniting the ...Anthony, because it would be based on uniting the island without any changes being made. I needn't repeat my argument about stageism.<br />I'm not interested in what bourgeois nationalists or unionists think is best for us all. Their system has failed and they have nothing to offer working class people. <br />Premature in terms of what's in the best interests of the working class fromMike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24672157225450551592021-06-05T17:08:10.877+01:002021-06-05T17:08:10.877+01:00Mike - what would make a referendum premature? I t...Mike - what would make a referendum premature? I think there is an argument for having one every ten years rather than leaving it to a British Secretary of State to decide. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11712693848191753402021-06-05T16:53:07.260+01:002021-06-05T16:53:07.260+01:00Thanks Anthony,
Yes I've seen some of the arti...Thanks Anthony,<br />Yes I've seen some of the articles you mention, I will make it as point to go and have another read.<br /><br />I dread to think what will happen in the case of a premature referendum which resulted in 50+1.<br /><br />I live in hope that things can move before this happens, and I will be 100% behind any initiative which aims to deal with all the issues which Tommy has Mike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-27103145653845627722021-06-05T16:43:36.861+01:002021-06-05T16:43:36.861+01:00Mike - Tommy, as usual, presents a cogent case. Th...Mike - Tommy, as usual, presents a cogent case. The Provisional IRA campaign of armed coercion failedto move the British out of Ireland or move the unionists into an Irish unitary state. That much is clear. Yet, if 50+1 is reached then by your definition the population of the North East will have to leave the UK or will be coerced into living under a partition they do not want. What happens then?AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74817751202835736802021-06-05T15:20:40.891+01:002021-06-05T15:20:40.891+01:00It's good to see that some lessons are being l...It's good to see that some lessons are being learned from history at last. It has always been quite simple really. Instead of trying to force the population in the north east of the island into a unity they don't want, actually look at why they don't want it and do something about it.<br />This cuts across the stages theory of unity, which has held back progress for the last century. Mike Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01660761750411785160noreply@blogger.com