tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post5723690302908875567..comments2024-03-29T11:31:52.337+00:00Comments on TPQ: From The Eyes Of An Adversary ➖ The Method Of The MadnessAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-5421278388036362582021-09-04T07:09:10.037+01:002021-09-04T07:09:10.037+01:00It's hard to take a break, it's a manifest...It's hard to take a break, it's a manifestation of group psychology. It renders individual respectful discourse almost impossible. Our shared memories are hard to detach from. Having said all that there's too many unionists on here, it's all their fault! Let's bar them from the quill, let's make the quill great again! Tpq! Tpq! Them uns are ruining for everyone! Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17444633940330708192021-09-04T06:44:19.180+01:002021-09-04T06:44:19.180+01:00That is good advice. Going over the same ground or...That is good advice. Going over the same ground or trying to find different ways to say the same thing either in defence of a position or in opposition to it doesn't take us much further. Ultimately, I think these things are better understood if we look less at individuals and more at say the relationship between the institutional RUC and political unionism and the structure which that was AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59326338655148157412021-09-03T22:32:08.209+01:002021-09-03T22:32:08.209+01:00Lesley
The RUC were what they were -you and Brand...Lesley<br /><br />The RUC were what they were -you and Brandon are trying to paint them as a divided force with an abundance of good guys -they weren't. <br /><br />I think you are being disingenuous in your defence of an RUC force that did not reflect the decency or honour with which you and Brandon assert --and deflection to what about the IRA does not clean the RUC up. You and Brandon Christy Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07529990561635818286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-42725429786058425282021-09-03T21:04:54.228+01:002021-09-03T21:04:54.228+01:00Several years back Billy Keane writing in the Iris...Several years back Billy Keane writing in the Irish Independent quoted his friend Mickey McConnell, the Fermanagh troubadour and long time Kerry resident's observations and belief that most people who lived through the Northern conflict had been traumatised to some degree or other. That's probably a reasonable and valid evaluation. It's my hunch that both Lesley and Christy ought takeHenry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-38932269641547250412021-09-03T19:17:38.691+01:002021-09-03T19:17:38.691+01:00Christy
For every bit of evidence you produce whic...Christy<br />For every bit of evidence you produce which proves your point, I'd say there are as many pieces of evidence that proves Brandons and mine. In fact, even Brandon and I may disagree about some aspects of the debate. Just as you and say, Anthony or HJ would disagree about the same conversation.... The fact is that yes there were incredibly wicked folk in the RUC who persecuted folkNot really herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898760620707146264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17905971525275224472021-09-03T16:13:51.627+01:002021-09-03T16:13:51.627+01:00Brandon/Lesley
You have both tried to re-create t...Brandon/Lesley<br /><br />You have both tried to re-create the image of the RUC as having an abundance of decent fair minded officers. The evidence disproves that, they were irreformable precisely because of its sectarian make-up -hence the need to disband them.<br /><br />Lesley I am not inclined to enter into your attempt to justify RUC sectarianism by deflection. No question the IRA carried Christy Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07529990561635818286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-66519762478045844842021-09-03T07:55:32.511+01:002021-09-03T07:55:32.511+01:00This is the type of issue that will never result i...This is the type of issue that will never result in much other than the reinforcing of the opinions we already hold if the focus continues to remain on individuals and the attitudinal and less on the institution and the structural. People can always point to this or that individual as evidence for their view. The institutional and the structural are always more revealing than the individual in AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15749951683530286172021-09-03T06:57:02.228+01:002021-09-03T06:57:02.228+01:00Christie
I've heard much about what the big ba...Christie<br />I've heard much about what the big bad RUC did what I'd like to know (which you have skirted by so eloquently in the pursuit of vilifying the RUC ) were all the atrocities, murders etc carried out by Republicans right and justified? And what of the PSNI, you have the same thoughts for them as you have for the RUC? Not really herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898760620707146264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-34449812265423717652021-09-03T00:16:55.351+01:002021-09-03T00:16:55.351+01:00I'm using continuum to capture todays current ...I'm using continuum to capture todays current bandwidth. It encapsulates the diversity that exists while still acknowledging the 'whole'.<br />I've found it interesting to hear Lesley's qualified acceptance of the vote going for unification and also of Peter's tactical voting (similar indeed to some of my protestant in-laws).<br /><br />Mallon's weighted majority idea Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-75212570097790933472021-09-02T22:23:02.195+01:002021-09-02T22:23:02.195+01:00Brandon
Diplock Courts were part of the arsenal o...Brandon<br /><br />Diplock Courts were part of the arsenal of the Judiciary and RUC -Parliament created Diplock Courts not the judiciary.<br /><br />The idea of being a member of the RUC and Nationalist is laughable just as would be the idea of a staunch royalist or republican. They are each mutually exclusive, you are either one or the other. Castle Catholics joined the RUC -they were/are Christy Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07529990561635818286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-83288708555203217762021-09-02T19:17:21.043+01:002021-09-02T19:17:21.043+01:00HJ - Where does that leave your continuum idea whe...HJ - Where does that leave your continuum idea whereby the ends are different from each other? Or are you using that not in the sense of any linear progression from partition to today but as a current spectrum capturing today's unionist bandwidth? <br />As you suggest, the Irish people have accepted partition until a majority of people in the North agree otherwise and in that sense the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-23522324133459458552021-09-02T18:03:33.974+01:002021-09-02T18:03:33.974+01:00AM - Kelleher's point is generally well made a...AM - Kelleher's point is generally well made and similar to one by Einstein which says “We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." <br /><br />However the specifics here are not so. <br />The Irish people have collectively agreed to await permission from the interlopers before reintegrating the outstanding 3/16ths.<br />Furthermore, saveHenry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-31577544977918646822021-09-02T12:56:26.887+01:002021-09-02T12:56:26.887+01:00@ Christy Walsh
Interesting points. Let me comme...@ Christy Walsh<br /><br />Interesting points. Let me comment on a few:<br /><br />"It cannot be both, had there been an abundance of so called decent RUC members then the RUC would not have been the sectarian militia that it was. The statistical breakdown of its religious makeup was not propaganda."<br /><br />The stats weren't propaganda, no. I would prefer Ulster Protestants Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17701628724693404232021-09-02T11:40:16.435+01:002021-09-02T11:40:16.435+01:00Unionism by definition is a monolith on the issue ...Unionism by definition is a monolith on the issue of the border. That is the found on which the continuum you refer to sits. Political unionism has a lot to answer for in a way that individual unionists do not depending on where they sit on that spectrum. <br />Unionism like nationalism should be looked at with a dispassionate eye. <br />We should ponder if nationalism should be any more AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-85668237066406708722021-09-02T09:57:15.036+01:002021-09-02T09:57:15.036+01:00AM says
"The state was not a neutral party ...AM says <br /><br /><i>"The state was not a neutral party in this: it very much pushed in one direction"</i><br /><br />Totally agree but what most people now fail to remember or acknowledge enough is that the Northern state arose out of, or was built upon the ideology called <i>'Political Unionism'</i>. The essence of this ideology was, and largely remains supremacist and Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-7300460464594575672021-09-02T00:33:45.225+01:002021-09-02T00:33:45.225+01:00Brandon
It cannot be both, had there been an abun...Brandon<br /><br />It cannot be both, had there been an abundance of so called decent RUC members then the RUC would not have been the sectarian militia that it was. The statistical breakdown of its religious makeup was not propaganda. The RUC can be distinguished from ordinary civilian police forces use of ill-treatment in other jurisdictions. consistently in and around 80% of Nationalist Christy Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07529990561635818286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-38995553137333948022021-09-01T22:41:21.186+01:002021-09-01T22:41:21.186+01:00Frankie
Paramilitaries at least you got what it s...Frankie<br /><br />Paramilitaries at least you got what it says on the 'tin'.....They weren't advertising for 'crime fighters', Neither was their primary or secondary reason for becoming either a Republican or Loyalist vol. money orientated.<br /><br />No they were looking for natural born killers just like ISIS, Red Brigades, ETA and white supremacist/neo-nazi groups. If Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-36054679563581883162021-09-01T22:26:38.349+01:002021-09-01T22:26:38.349+01:00Fair enough Frankie, we are entitled to our own op...Fair enough Frankie, we are entitled to our own opinions. I've seen a fair few incidents with dodgy cops in Belfast but a lot of decent interactions at other times.Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8066545225838224532021-09-01T16:07:30.032+01:002021-09-01T16:07:30.032+01:00Frankie,
You have a mistrust and don't like &#...Frankie,<br />You have a mistrust and don't like 'British Crime fighters'... seems to be your issue in that case, not mine.... As for paramilitaries not entering that scene for money?? hmmmm yeah, whatever you say. Why would me joining the police for money in order to live and support my family be a bad thing? You do realise how completely ridiculous you sound.... <br />Let's Not really herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898760620707146264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14975510918843652502021-09-01T15:29:06.663+01:002021-09-01T15:29:06.663+01:00Stevie,
Have you seen how much Medical students wh...Stevie,<br /><i>Have you seen how much Medical students who become Doctors drink? Or let rip on other "stuff"? Every Chemist I knew was a little too fond of pills when they went to Uni as well.</i><br /><br />As in do I have a very good friend (he is a rockabilly I've known for 35yrs) who is a highly qualified nurse working in the RVH? Yes. When I ask him about pills going missing, frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16772711779193971172021-09-01T14:51:01.001+01:002021-09-01T14:51:01.001+01:00Lesley,
Frankie doesn't think like rational pe...Lesley,<br /><i>Frankie doesn't think like rational people, </i><br /><br />I think for me, myself and I. Rational people can think what ever and how ever they want.<br /><br /><i>Frankie only wants to 'point score' against <b>the big bad</b> Ruc <b>woman</b>........</i><br /><br />Playing the 'Barry' card? I don't like crime fighters. Reformed, retired or other. I'frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91560922599269746922021-09-01T10:53:23.147+01:002021-09-01T10:53:23.147+01:00"It was also an organisation that was brutali..."It was also an organisation that was brutalised and was brutalised."<br /><br />Should have read "It was also an organisation that brutalised and was brutalised."Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-66725518760255639122021-09-01T10:26:38.808+01:002021-09-01T10:26:38.808+01:00@ Henry JoY
"Applies equally to the RUC and ...@ Henry JoY<br /><br />"Applies equally to the RUC and Catholic Church, wouldn't you agree?"<br /><br />I think it applies to most organisations, truth be told. I don't think it applies to the UFF, for example. There isn't much mitigation for organisations dedicated simply to murdering civilians. <br /><br />To reflect the point made well by AM (and less well by me, Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-80611220937852611492021-09-01T10:10:02.000+01:002021-09-01T10:10:02.000+01:00@ Christy Walsh
I grew up a stone's throw fro...@ Christy Walsh<br /><br />I grew up a stone's throw from Beechmount, the Iveah area. I know the area well, and will look up the incident that you refer to.<br /><br />Re:<br /><br />"If the RUC had an abundance of 'honourable, decent and evenhanded officers within its ranks' are you now alleging that Nationalist claims of it being a predominantly sectarian force were/are false?Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28772523220790792832021-09-01T07:59:48.488+01:002021-09-01T07:59:48.488+01:00AM
Put much better than I ever could! I actually t...AM<br />Put much better than I ever could! I actually think that just was so succinct. It has been a difficult thread to try to follow and at times it seemed I couldn't reply directly to a named persons comment. I never did the piece to show 'republicans' how far I've come, in fact Republicans were the last thing on my mind if I'm honest. I was interested in getting to know Not really herehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03898760620707146264noreply@blogger.com