tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post5172596579480448673..comments2024-03-28T04:50:14.406+00:00Comments on TPQ: Where Now For Irish Republicanism?AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-35513600655971296482023-03-03T11:55:35.371+00:002023-03-03T11:55:35.371+00:00"The RUC was a force that targeted the nation...<br />"The RUC was a force that targeted the nationalist population. The UDR was worse."<br /><br />I think this is true. The RUC could also point to an impressive track record of prosecuting loyalist terrorists, not a few of whom were in the ranks of the UDR (and of course the RUC's own rank). The UDR seems not to have been held in high regard by really anyone, outside of their Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28381703850968107712023-03-03T08:49:13.412+00:002023-03-03T08:49:13.412+00:00I got the sense of what you were trying to say but...I got the sense of what you were trying to say but think you rushed to fit too much in.<br /><br />These days I don't much go for black and white, thinking it leaves too much out, leaving the explanatory power with a certain frailty.<br /><br />I have long thought and said that there were far too many bastards on our side for them all to have been on the other side. <br /><br />There were AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-7037214516768234382023-03-02T22:07:15.715+00:002023-03-02T22:07:15.715+00:00I had to Google Charlie Flanagan!
I was so busy t...I had to Google Charlie Flanagan!<br /><br />I was so busy taking the King's schilling today, I ends up writing the comment in a few installments, coming back to it. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17465278741947291112023-03-02T20:40:08.835+00:002023-03-02T20:40:08.835+00:00That's witty about Charlie, and Brandon will b...That's witty about Charlie, and Brandon will be able to take it in the spirit it was given. Not much I laugh at on this blog but I'm still chuckling at that.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-57357994851153788422023-03-02T20:27:17.208+00:002023-03-02T20:27:17.208+00:00Brandon, that's somewhat of a scattergun respo...Brandon, that's somewhat of a scattergun response if I may say so.<br />Large parts where we might find agreement Brandon, and yet significant divergences too. <br /><br />You may study what the cops and UDR did from an <i><b>observational</i></b> point of view however that of itself does not make it <i><b>objective</i></b>.<br /><br />Your expectation that Republicans might afford greater Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-53842714290223092912023-03-02T13:52:18.505+00:002023-03-02T13:52:18.505+00:00@ Christopher Owens
I see what you mean. You wro...@ Christopher Owens<br /><br />I see what you mean. You wrote something making an excellent point about point scoring about the deaths of Thomas McElwee & Yvonne Dunlop.<br /><br />@ Henry Joy<br /><br />The newly created state of Northern Ireland wanted an army, but was refused permission by UKG. So they set up an extremely well-armed "police" force, and the special Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11442651295875326912023-03-02T09:10:24.391+00:002023-03-02T09:10:24.391+00:00and yet careerism is rampant and yet careerism is rampant AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43924095388841746462023-03-02T00:20:11.870+00:002023-03-02T00:20:11.870+00:00@BS
It's generally agreed that hard cases make...@BS<br />It's generally agreed that hard cases make bad law. An extreme case is a poor basis for general law. <br /><br />Likewise, narratives of hurts & injuries experienced by individual RUC & UDR personnel, as you've presented in previous contributions, are but anecdotal evidence, anecdotal evidence that flies in the face of overarching analysis. <br />The hard evidence, factsHenry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-80554157641729891872023-03-01T22:36:58.696+00:002023-03-01T22:36:58.696+00:00AM,
"I think unionism is much more parsimoni...AM,<br /><br />"I think unionism is much more parsimonious on this front than nationalism"<br /><br />Because when you get right down to it the Unionists truly believe they lost the war and anything further given is a step too far. Siege mentality ad infinitum. Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59049443797829085072023-03-01T21:43:30.997+00:002023-03-01T21:43:30.997+00:00Brandon,
I was merely suggesting that the claim o...Brandon,<br /><br />I was merely suggesting that the claim of dissonance smacked of point scoring. I wasn't accusing you of it. I have seen some unionist commentators certainly use it to score points against SF.Christopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43171507867179365792023-03-01T08:43:37.898+00:002023-03-01T08:43:37.898+00:00That should read British laws being enforced by pa...That should read British laws being enforced by paid armed British police in Ireland. <br /><br />Yesterday was a long day... Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-41407788385047878102023-02-28T22:18:24.574+00:002023-02-28T22:18:24.574+00:00@ Christopher Owens, Henry Joy
The basis for my &...@ Christopher Owens, Henry Joy<br /><br />The basis for my "dissonance" comment was a conversation I had with an ex-combatant in which I drew a distinction between pre and post GFA attacks on police officers in the North. The locus of the discussion was the continuity of British laws being paid by armed British police in Ireland. That hasn't changed, but of course politics has, asBrandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8362665829723404842023-02-28T21:20:55.817+00:002023-02-28T21:20:55.817+00:00Peter,
there is a gradualist move in that directi...Peter,<br /><br />there is a gradualist move in that direction. I think were the North not such an integral part of the party the IRA would have been gassed by the South by now. <br /><br />I think they calculated long term that even with Corbyn leading Labour there was no real strategic advantage to being in Westminster. I thought years ago that they would have been in it by now and I think theyAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16423787548737861882023-02-28T21:07:35.039+00:002023-02-28T21:07:35.039+00:00AM
SF have held onto the legacy much longer and wi...AM<br />SF have held onto the legacy much longer and with more vigour than I expected. I thought the old volunteers would be quietly done away with pretty quickly. I also thought they would have moved towards taking their Westminster seats, especially when Corbynistas ruled Labour and the SNP had a load of MPs.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-77975884720155852322023-02-28T19:39:53.918+00:002023-02-28T19:39:53.918+00:00Brandon,
"I don't think any Irish republ...Brandon,<br /><br />"I don't think any Irish republican could call Bobby Sands a criminal and have a successful career afterwards."<br /><br />Considering the ambivalent attitude that some in Fianna Fail hold towards the Easter Rising, and former Taoiseach John Bruton dismissing it as unjust, it will probably not be long before Bobby Sands is dismissed by some SF councilors, even Christopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-85599068046731952812023-02-28T16:57:47.610+00:002023-02-28T16:57:47.610+00:00@BS
"there is of course dissonance in holding...@BS<br /><i>"there is of course dissonance in holding the position that it was OK to shoot police officers until 31/08/94, or 19/07/97, but not OK in 2023."</i><br /><br />Until August '94, at the ideological level and the level of popular sovereignty, many of those who engaged the forces of the Crown could, albeit tenuous to others, claim such an imprimatur.<br /><br />After the Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-85818981963414365272023-02-28T12:35:17.792+00:002023-02-28T12:35:17.792+00:00Is Billy still alive?
It is just hard to point to...Is Billy still alive?<br /><br />It is just hard to point to examples where they put a principle in front of a career. <br /><br />That type seem to have vacated the party. I am thinking of people like Angela Nelson for whom the royalty embrace was a red line.<br /><br />When you think of it, they have abandoned so much in order to build this career structure what great leap is there to saying AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-5923163718708091472023-02-28T10:19:00.064+00:002023-02-28T10:19:00.064+00:00@ AM
It would be great to get Billy Leonard writi...@ AM<br /><br />It would be great to get Billy Leonard writing something on this subject: ex-RUC man who became a Sinn Fein MLA.<br /><br />I only knew a few Sinn Finn members, and this perhaps colours my judgement, but they'd point-blank refuse to call Bobby Sands a criminal, irrespective of the impact on their career. I'm sure there are plenty of others who might.<br /><br />I Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16840364594674015392023-02-28T09:48:15.183+00:002023-02-28T09:48:15.183+00:00I don't think you will get many takers for som...I don't think you will get many takers for something written by Morrison. I only ever read him in the past to see what he was lying about. I don't read him at all now. <br /><br />That is a good point about whether a successful career would emerge after calling Bobby Sands a criminal but which does not address the point being made: if there was to be a successful career after it what way AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-18717383276439770602023-02-28T09:02:24.930+00:002023-02-28T09:02:24.930+00:00@ AM & Peter
This discussion makes me think o...@ AM & Peter<br /><br />This discussion makes me think of The Good Old IRA, written by Danny Morrison in response to Southern Establishment criticism of the Provos (I have a PDF if anyone wants a read).<br /><br />Or Adams' comments about the IRA attacking newspapers in the war of independence: https://thebrokenelbow.com/2016/10/21/what-does-a-printing-press-destroyed-by-the-ira-look-likeBrandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8064750719849912762023-02-28T08:15:20.185+00:002023-02-28T08:15:20.185+00:00We would need to be on the inside track to know. S...We would need to be on the inside track to know. SF is really behaving no differently to other politicians who try to knit together competing and diverse strands within the constituency fabric that they want to hold together. Societies tolerate a lot of double standards and turn a blind eye about past issues if by doing so their present interests are served. The careerist element within SF which AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-38729592661948984212023-02-27T20:41:43.782+00:002023-02-27T20:41:43.782+00:00Something I have found fascinating in republicanis...Something I have found fascinating in republicanism is "who owns the past"? After the GFA SF moved quickly to own the republican legacy, even wrestling Bobby Sands' from his family. Now there are competing remembrances, but this throws up a problem for SF as they are lauding dead cop killers one day and condemning live cop killers the next. Can they keep doing this if they want realPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-45443122953607341932023-02-27T10:31:01.437+00:002023-02-27T10:31:01.437+00:00Brandon - hopefully both you and Steve will contri...Brandon - hopefully both you and Steve will contribute to the discussion. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-6749097302116095352023-02-27T09:58:24.763+00:002023-02-27T09:58:24.763+00:00@ AM, Steve R
I think what any of the dormant and...@ AM, Steve R<br /><br />I think what any of the dormant and active political actors can bring to any table is subject to an intricate web of interdependencies.<br /><br />At the moment, disillusionment seems the dominant political trait. Irish republicanism seems quiet at the moment - and why wouldn't they be? Unionism is staggering from one self-inflicted catastrophe to another.<br /><br Brandon Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846523287559978645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-37830670900600967562023-02-27T08:13:02.801+00:002023-02-27T08:13:02.801+00:00That is the sort of thing any republican project i...That is the sort of thing any republican project is likely to face. Summed up, how does it become relevant? AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.com