tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post4670917027277250733..comments2024-03-29T13:37:11.174+00:00Comments on TPQ: It's Time For A New Peace Deal ... With Public SupportAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-54357891322324801152015-09-26T14:34:47.236+01:002015-09-26T14:34:47.236+01:00Peter,
at a guess I think they would go for it. ...Peter, <br /><br />at a guess I think they would go for it. They would probably see it as ~ if six counties can have it then so too should one. If they did not opt for it they would stand accused of denying their fellow nationalists the chance to peacefully become part of the Irish state. The unionists might have considerable difficulty with it. <br /><br />The union is absolutely safe and has AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-75118543112357729072015-09-26T14:19:24.409+01:002015-09-26T14:19:24.409+01:00AM
Yes, I agree the PIRA campaign was a disaster f...AM<br />Yes, I agree the PIRA campaign was a disaster for those wanting a UI. It completely poisoned the well and made even liberal unionists totally opposed to it. As Seamus Mallon said, he will never see a UI and for that he blames the Provos. When Sean says that half the population of the north are waiting for a UI he makes a big mistake. North Down is 90% prod that means there are roughly Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24825341560506498252015-09-26T10:25:45.938+01:002015-09-26T10:25:45.938+01:00Peter, the only totality in my position is that th...Peter, the only totality in my position is that the Irish people have the right to self-determination - as they do. This is denied them, not due to a legitimate political argument - that partition is somehow just - but through the power of the British gun, which time and again, mixing coercion in turn with compromise, has imposed its own contrived arrangements, first with the Treaty, then with Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-53720178166402748392015-09-26T09:09:25.943+01:002015-09-26T09:09:25.943+01:00Peter,
I have long since come to the conclusion t...Peter,<br /><br />I have long since come to the conclusion that a United Ireland is not on the horizon. I won't see it. My children won't see it. Adams is talking about a united Ireland but not of the traditional type - which is Sinntology talk for one where partition continues to exist and the British still rule ... but it is still a united Ireland if you are creative and imaginative AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-36159996700227479292015-09-26T08:34:14.688+01:002015-09-26T08:34:14.688+01:00Sean
Failed state? Apparently Omagh is the happies...Sean<br />Failed state? Apparently Omagh is the happiest place in the UK!! <br />http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/25/uk-happiest-area-fermanagh-and-omagh-wellbeing-anomaly<br /><br />AM<br />Yes unionists do take solace from republicanism. It was pointed out to me years ago that as long as republicans demanded a UI it was dividing rather than uniting Ireland. I do believe there is an Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-87114234630800111822015-09-26T07:47:41.044+01:002015-09-26T07:47:41.044+01:00Fair enough Sean. So long as no more Ulstermen end...Fair enough Sean. So long as no more Ulstermen end up in their graves over this shit, then tear away. No-one is asking you to give up your dream.<br />BTW I think you were a little unfair to AM. He doesn't need me to defend him but I don't think you understood exactly what he was trying to say. Read his posts again.<br />Enjoy your weekend.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17675469473146599822015-09-26T07:43:54.632+01:002015-09-26T07:43:54.632+01:00Peter,
unionism cannot feel seriously challenged...Peter, <br /><br />unionism cannot feel seriously challenged by the republican argument and in fact must draw great solace from it. There is no threat to partition into perpetuity as Tom King once termed it: yet many nationalists see little diminution in unionist hostility and resentment. Which seems to suggest an innate sectarianism as distinct from sectarianism as a strategy. A parallel would AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65189397485921987212015-09-25T21:18:34.118+01:002015-09-25T21:18:34.118+01:00Peter a chara, I wouldn't necessarily disagree...Peter a chara, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the most of that. I'm at a football match here in Healy Park as we speak, Dromore are getting spanked by Killyclogher, life most certainly is going on regardless of arguments on here or whatever traction OIOV may or not be garnering at this moment in time. But I simply refuse to give up and have no intention of doing so. Martin McCaugheySean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-7510056867454017402015-09-25T20:13:43.949+01:002015-09-25T20:13:43.949+01:00Sean
The one with the totality of position is yers...Sean<br />The one with the totality of position is yerself. What you can't seem to grasp, to the exasperation of some of us, is that the vast majority of people on this island voted for the GFA and thus accepted consent. If you want a 32 county Ireland you will have to do it through the process of 2 referendums or by armed insurrection, and you have no chance of success in either at this Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15027470398152153427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43335538094415283802015-09-25T19:33:38.217+01:002015-09-25T19:33:38.217+01:00It is the logic and totality of your position It is the logic and totality of your position Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16198994810113511052015-09-25T19:27:52.198+01:002015-09-25T19:27:52.198+01:00Nothing there Sean that stirs my interest. Just a ...Nothing there Sean that stirs my interest. Just a rehash of the same. If you say something novel or persuasive I'll respond. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-92225282516753053552015-09-25T18:22:20.751+01:002015-09-25T18:22:20.751+01:00The Northern state is not legitimate Anthony. It i...The Northern state is not legitimate Anthony. It is maintained through suppression of what you readily admit is the will of the people - which is for Irish Unity. Essentially we are talking about force. How can we describe that as legitimate (and that's without entertaining a conversation on both the origins of partition and the violent history of the entity it spawned) or what understanding Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-6554682794826990042015-09-25T17:30:48.432+01:002015-09-25T17:30:48.432+01:00Sean,
the most your friend Peter said was that yo...Sean,<br /><br />the most your friend Peter said was that you would struggle to show that a majority in the South want unity. Ask him - I doubt very much he would say they do not prefer it. <br /><br />Yes, the Northern state is legitimate given that it has been legitimised by the bulk of the country. The strategic challenge facing republicans is to delegitimise it. But if they can't even seeAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-55714024069919537762015-09-25T17:22:59.405+01:002015-09-25T17:22:59.405+01:00'Henry Joy', we'll call it a weekend t...'Henry Joy', we'll call it a weekend truce. The goons have been called off, for now...Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-6391605241219190112015-09-25T17:20:52.423+01:002015-09-25T17:20:52.423+01:00Well your mate Peter has said it in this thread al...Well your mate Peter has said it in this thread alone but correct me if I'm wrong here, you're now saying not only that partition hasn't failed but that the Northern state is now legitimate?Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-5335016993610081802015-09-25T17:09:08.164+01:002015-09-25T17:09:08.164+01:00Given that there is no reason to think otherwise a...Given that there is no reason to think otherwise and the counter seems to be repetition of the old shibboleths with nothing to back them up, I'll stick with my judgement until it fails me. <br /><br />We will let others decide who has the best understanding of legitimacy. We have both had our say.<br /><br />The state is legitimized not by people's preference but by their actions/AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-47518577045106030982015-09-25T17:06:19.205+01:002015-09-25T17:06:19.205+01:00Séan
Tá súil agam go mbéidh deireadh seachtaine m...Séan<br /><br />Tá súil agam go mbéidh deireadh seachtaine maith agat freisin.<br /><br />Couple of clarifications before I go though.<br /><br />Firstly I never said "the vision for Ireland contained in the 1916 Proclamation was absurd, bizarre or futile". Read my comment again and hopefully you'll see what I wrote ... rather than what you thought I wrote.<br /><br />As the 'Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59059245111368298892015-09-25T16:56:52.575+01:002015-09-25T16:56:52.575+01:00So you're sticking with the 'partition has...So you're sticking with the 'partition hasn't failed' line. I suppose you're free to do so. You said I don't understand what legitimacy means when it comes to politics but I doubt it's yourself who doesn't understand it, not when you deny that the presence of a major bloc within the state, with little to no affinity to the state, who desire instead to be part of anSean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-86822403233245227222015-09-25T16:42:36.787+01:002015-09-25T16:42:36.787+01:00Sean,
we moderate our commentary so that our oppo...Sean,<br /><br />we moderate our commentary so that our opponent is prevented from emerging as the clear winner because we couldn't contain our bile. We moderate our commentary out of basic human civility otherwise we would be calling each other cunts all day; we moderate our commentary because we want to make points rather than score them; we moderate our commentary because our audience seesAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-26418877809322597822015-09-25T16:27:40.554+01:002015-09-25T16:27:40.554+01:00Sean,
the case can just as easily be made that t...Sean,<br /><br /> <i>the case can just as easily be made that this 'vast majority of people' you reference give their support to parties who endorse the reunification of Ireland, albeit allowing for a vote in the north to take precedent over constitutional movement through other means of change.</i><br /><br />Which is precisely the point: that is what legitimises partition, not that AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-31070936672318751202015-09-25T16:02:25.525+01:002015-09-25T16:02:25.525+01:00So now we have to moderate our commentary for fear...So now we have to moderate our commentary for fear of who may be looking in or noticing. Take what you will from what I say and the same goes for anyone else, I'm not a politician and don't ever intend to be so. I'm just an ordinary man and the day I'm not free to be so will bring with it its own reaction. That aside, you've been arguing partition does not equate to a failure Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24511201473783029802015-09-25T15:54:21.189+01:002015-09-25T15:54:21.189+01:00Sean,
how is anybody reading that rant against He...Sean,<br /><br />how is anybody reading that rant against Henry Joy going to be persuaded in the slightest that you have an argument worth listening to? You cannot escape your public profile as a PRO for the 1916 Societies and such vitriol does not go unnoticed. His comments while disagreeable to you did not merit such a response. As Mick Fealty often says, play the ball not the man. You are AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-6656979588970556012015-09-25T14:09:21.268+01:002015-09-25T14:09:21.268+01:00Anthony a chara, from what you've written, bot...Anthony a chara, from what you've written, both here and elsewhere on the site this morning, it seems you're making the absurd claim partition is a success. How? You're clutching at straws with that one and why you would assume such a position is frankly incomprehensible. By all means forward this record of success, but before doing so let's get something straight. That something Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-58010712177984802272015-09-25T11:55:02.265+01:002015-09-25T11:55:02.265+01:00Honestly, I don't know where to go with that n...Honestly, I don't know where to go with that nonsense above but someone should hit that fool a good slap first opportunity presenting. For the record, I never realised the vision for Ireland contained in the 1916 Proclamation was absurd, bizarre or futile - but if you say it well sure it must be true oh learned one. Maybe some day if you put your mind to it - when you get your tongue out of Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-25583971930814552732015-09-25T09:48:48.437+01:002015-09-25T09:48:48.437+01:00Sean,
Depending on how the question was framed th...Sean,<br /><br />Depending on how the question was framed there's little doubt that a sizable majority's preference would reflect that they still <i>aspire</i> to a united Ireland. However its now beyond doubt also that a majority wouldn't want any truck with any plan, even an aspirational one, that seeks to pursue such a course without the consent of a majority within the northern Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.com