tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post305767606401587014..comments2024-03-28T17:44:07.653+00:00Comments on TPQ: Why Rape Culture Is A Dangerous Myth AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-6661259293374478262020-05-25T10:41:51.525+01:002020-05-25T10:41:51.525+01:00Steve. The taxi driver gave evidence and said &quo...Steve. The taxi driver gave evidence and said "The young woman definitely seemed very upset. She was crying-stroke-sobbing throughout the journey,”<br /><br />She also had a vaginal tear whuch the prosecution said may have been there before the night in question. <br /><br />The remembered Harrison saying: “She is with me now. She is not good. I’ll call you in the morning.”<br /><br />I didnSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-27796801140454681052020-05-25T07:12:09.678+01:002020-05-25T07:12:09.678+01:00Steve - pretty much as I recall it to the extent t...Steve - pretty much as I recall it to the extent that I remember much about it but the general thrust of your comment seems to be in the right direction. <br /><br />I think both Christopher and Simon brought a lot to the above topic which I found very informative. <br /><br />What we can be near enough certain of is that things will not improve dramatically for people who believe they have been AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-36075671429880815772020-05-24T23:27:26.974+01:002020-05-24T23:27:26.974+01:00Small point about the Rugby trial, The accuser did...Small point about the Rugby trial, The accuser didn't leave the house crying and bleeding, she only became upset after being dropped off home by one of the defendents and while she was by herself.<br /><br />During the 'incident' she failed to give a believable account of why she left the room three times and returned.<br /><br />One of the other females in the house walked in on &Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-54916038863192837222020-05-24T22:15:54.203+01:002020-05-24T22:15:54.203+01:00Anthony, I think you missed the point of why 58% o...Anthony, I think you missed the point of why 58% of cases being investigated by the police were withdrawn by victims. It was not because of a lack of evidence. The report found that it was not because victims did not want to continue with the investigation, but because they did not feel that they could. Research by the London team under the mayor's office showed that the most common reasons Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-61249043955146542772020-05-24T21:50:16.163+01:002020-05-24T21:50:16.163+01:00Christopher, If they didn't suffer a black out...Christopher, If they didn't suffer a black out or were unconscious why else would they not remember being raped? Okay, so let's assume they didn't have a black out or were unconscious but still can't remember being raped. Just because they can still bring a case to court doesn't mean justice favours them. They have a right to bring non-consensual sex to court and if it's Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9289450431056025082020-05-24T21:03:33.329+01:002020-05-24T21:03:33.329+01:00If we postulate that the cases that fall behind at...If we postulate that the cases that fall behind at an early stage are those that the police consider not unworthy but the ones they have less chance of securing a result on, then bringing them forward is not guaranteed any greater likelihood of success. I think the difference in convictions would be marginal. I am guessing that the cases that are put on the long finger are those where it is the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-2507057874704304742020-05-24T18:56:56.241+01:002020-05-24T18:56:56.241+01:00Simon
'...I find it a little odd that you say...Simon<br /><br />'...I find it a little odd that you say if someone is raped when unconscious or blacking out their right to bring it to trial means the system is "in their favour".'<br /><br />You're twisting my words (I mentioned nothing about people being unconscious or blacking out or rights to bring it to trial, which is down to the CPS). I wrote that "... it'sChristopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-670176962724964092020-05-24T18:31:35.114+01:002020-05-24T18:31:35.114+01:00I meant an improved attrition rate. If cases which...I meant an improved attrition rate. If cases which are pulled by complainants for the reasons above, which are not connected to the weight of their case, but to stress, trauma, lack of support or time wasting by the authorities, actually go to the CPS and then to court the conviction rate may remain the same but more will go to court. The number of convictions will increase, without interfering Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65175951325827197332020-05-24T18:06:19.075+01:002020-05-24T18:06:19.075+01:00Simon where you see an undoubted rise in convictio...Simon where you see an undoubted rise in convictions I think it equally plausible that there could be a serious rise in failed cases. <br />In my view what progress will be made will be incremental. But that is better than no progress. <br />Maybe as I have grown older I have given up on change occurring radically. I no longer believe in revolution!!!AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-178564707500050642020-05-24T17:35:21.802+01:002020-05-24T17:35:21.802+01:00I looked over point 4 of Gitto's reasons why c...I looked over point 4 of Gitto's reasons why cases do not make it - the complainant has withdrawn their charge (for whatever reason). It is actually the most common reason why cases don't move from the police to CPS. <br /><br />The London rape review: a review of cases from 2016, found that 58% of victims withdrew their allegation prior to the police submitting the case to the CPS. TheSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-82806597705540837462020-05-24T17:07:40.243+01:002020-05-24T17:07:40.243+01:00The lost cases are included in figures provided by...The lost cases are included in figures provided by the CPS to the inspectorate. <br /><br />"The more society comes to see rape as an abomination, the more consent is educated into every citizen, there might be slow progress. Against that - there is nothing more scorned than paedophilia and still it flourishes." There are arguments that suggest education on consent should start at an Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-44263868578331970642020-05-24T16:49:24.139+01:002020-05-24T16:49:24.139+01:00Christopher, I find it a little odd that you say i...Christopher, I find it a little odd that you say if someone is raped when unconscious or blacking out their right to bring it to trial means the system is "in their favour". If someone is raped and there is evidence of rape then the system isn't weighed in favour of the victim because they don't chalk it up to a bad idea or experience. <br /><br />If consent is withdrawn at any Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-62681958025958354862020-05-24T16:46:09.824+01:002020-05-24T16:46:09.824+01:00Simon - I fail to see in anything you say a the po...Simon - I fail to see in anything you say a the possibility that the accused's rights might improve. While you don't argue for a weakening of those rights at best we can only hope they stay as they are. <br /><br />The system is riddled with inadequacies - one of which is underfunded. Much like every other public service. I fail to see how the inspectorate can say cases are lost due to AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-55878124733521058932020-05-24T15:51:42.715+01:002020-05-24T15:51:42.715+01:00You're right. We'll have to wait and see i...You're right. We'll have to wait and see if any robust changes are made and then if they're effective. Serious reforms can be made to increase the conviction rate and improve the accused's rights at the same time. The accused has the right to a fair trial. Other things in their favour which are keeping the conviction rates down are not necessarily rights. Inadequacies in the Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8275000406058787882020-05-24T15:23:08.647+01:002020-05-24T15:23:08.647+01:00Simon,
'You say "it's entirely possi...Simon,<br /><br />'You say "it's entirely possible for someone to be convicted of rape if the complainant has no recollection whatsoever." No recollection doesn't mean that sex didn't take place. It doesn't on it's own mean there was rape. There is normally other evidence like medical examinations, confessions, blood tests for example in those cases.'<br /><Christopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-64791769233349803242020-05-24T15:07:18.968+01:002020-05-24T15:07:18.968+01:00That may well be so but for the belief to become e...That may well be so but for the belief to become effective policy we would have to wait and see. I seriously doubt it. The only way that I can see a substantial increase in convictions is a diminution in the rights of the defendant. Anything else will be piecemeal and incremental. But maybe that is how society works best, evolution rather than revolution.<br /><br />The goal has to be firstly no AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-10312789812143034622020-05-24T14:55:03.775+01:002020-05-24T14:55:03.775+01:00I hope that list of 6 reasons for attrition by Git...I hope that list of 6 reasons for attrition by Gitto isn't exhaustive as even here on the Quill we've come up with additions. <br /><br />You say "it's entirely possible for someone to be convicted of rape if the complainant has no recollection whatsoever." No recollection doesn't mean that sex didn't take place. It doesn't on it's own mean there was rape. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8469147495479730192020-05-24T14:42:00.043+01:002020-05-24T14:42:00.043+01:00"All the measures you suggest would not in my..."All the measures you suggest would not in my view make a serious dent in the problem." The Inspectorate believe they, amongst other measures, will have an impact and as we acknowledge they're the experts. <br /><br />The waiting times for trial are atrocious as the justice system is seriously under-funded and under-resourced. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-76626552297452991382020-05-24T14:34:23.164+01:002020-05-24T14:34:23.164+01:00"Well, there you go, people with rape convict..."Well, there you go, people with rape convictions were on the wings. Not republicans convicted of rape. As were a few drug dealers and people convicted of killing their wives." <br /><br />Terrible situation. They should have been left to their own devices rather than been allowed on Republican wings. No wonder the women in Armagh were up in arms. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-89431085390728182312020-05-24T14:29:29.925+01:002020-05-24T14:29:29.925+01:00Simon - a case either merits a hearing or is doesn...Simon - a case either merits a hearing or is doesn't. Unbearable workloads should not be allowed to influence an outcome. I don't know how they would speed up the case - the wheels of justice do not move fast. The case involving Alex McCrory in the Belfast Courts have been going on six years. Nor do I know how attrition works in regards to other complaints. How does it compare with rape? AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8861743098829234182020-05-24T14:19:40.124+01:002020-05-24T14:19:40.124+01:00There are a number of reforms than can be put in p...There are a number of reforms than can be put in place. I understand a review is still taking place but the CPS need more resources so less cases are lost on the journey to court due to unbearable workloads. The time taken for a case to go to court should be addressed also. The CPS should also be less risk averse. Another thing that would help the process would be anonymity for the accused unlessSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-990470375377536182020-05-24T14:18:36.499+01:002020-05-24T14:18:36.499+01:00Simon,
"What year or what jurisdiction did t...Simon,<br /><br />"What year or what jurisdiction did the 78% refer to?"<br /><br />Crown Prosecution Service Data Summary Quarter 3 (2019-2020). 8,865 convictions for sexual offences against 2,121 non-convictions. So roughly 80/20 in favour of convictions.<br /><br />"The Chief Inspector of the HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate stated in a recent report that "If Christopher Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236891604706531905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-47195215307448046892020-05-24T13:57:02.105+01:002020-05-24T13:57:02.105+01:00Simon - after the verdict I wrote the following:
...Simon - after the verdict I wrote the following:<br /><br /><i>Yet it is hard to see how the jury could have reached any other verdict given the evidence placed before it. We are left with a legal fait accompli underwritten by the court determination that no rape took place in the bedroom of Paddy Jackson. The corollary of this is that there are no rapists and no rape victim.</i><br /><br />I no AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-63175549013821463902020-05-24T13:47:14.189+01:002020-05-24T13:47:14.189+01:00Simon - if the serious failures in the system are ...Simon - if the serious failures in the system are to be seriously addressed somebody would need to specify the methods by which the change you wish to see can be brought about. We would also need to see what the obstacles are to such specifications being enacted and move to curb them. I am not sure of what more can be done but I am not a legal expert and have a layperson's view. My concern isAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-52837216484671910652020-05-24T12:44:58.609+01:002020-05-24T12:44:58.609+01:00I know a rape accusation doesn't mean there ne...I know a rape accusation doesn't mean there necessarily was a rape. The figures show something is wrong with the attrition rate. That's not only my opinion but that of the Crown Prosecution Inspectorate.<br /><br />"Should the police have discretion not to pass the complaint to the Prosecution? I would be far from convinced that would be good." The police regularly do not pass Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.com