tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post2172472253435912753..comments2024-03-28T17:44:07.653+00:00Comments on TPQ: Seamus Grew & Roddy Carroll - Wreath Laying CeremonyAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-12181982862777659362019-04-04T01:55:50.294+01:002019-04-04T01:55:50.294+01:00Two very brave young men , soldiers of Ireland reg...Two very brave young men , soldiers of Ireland regardless of which group the belonged to , Roddys brother would be murdered by the U.D.R a year later , he was deaf and couldn't even hear the gunman coming up behind him as he shot him in the back of the head , they then staged a fake arrest in front of the public and every one of the U.D.R 4 were culpable in his under.Staffenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06697094495716721415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-60038598420260481512018-12-06T22:09:40.947+00:002018-12-06T22:09:40.947+00:00I was actually astonished to read recently that th...I was actually astonished to read recently that the Rising in 1916 in Dublin was unpopular with quite a number of locals. Funny how things change over time.Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-12281593294639688122018-12-06T13:15:50.542+00:002018-12-06T13:15:50.542+00:00Henry Joy - as long as you don't quit today. T...Henry Joy - as long as you don't quit today. That would spoil things.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-3125131288331902022018-12-06T13:12:08.560+00:002018-12-06T13:12:08.560+00:00AM,
you're right about one thing I haven'...AM,<br /><br />you're right about one thing I haven't had a dry day in weeks!<br /><br />That said, I'm minded of a story about a man from my part of the country who did 3/4 years in the Kesh in the early seventies ... every time an operation was pulled off in our area the Belfast men in his Cage would taunt him with <i>"Our lads had a long run down the motorway last night"<Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51397854189005083342018-12-06T12:22:28.253+00:002018-12-06T12:22:28.253+00:00Henry Joy,
I was beginning to think you had start...Henry Joy,<br /><br />I was beginning to think you had started Xmas drinking a day or two early!<br /><br />The pre-existence of the IRA has to be factored in but the weight to be assigned to it is another matter. <br /><br />The tradition was used more for the purpose of battering the Brits and out legitimising the Sticks than it was internalised as an effective belief system. <br /><br />The AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-77277776399279702722018-12-06T11:31:46.604+00:002018-12-06T11:31:46.604+00:00AM,
any idea you might have or had that I could b...AM,<br /><br />any idea you might have or had that I could be so naive to have countenanced the Provisional leadership becoming repulsed by their deeds should be, to use one of your words, disabused immediately. The lines of the 'Bird' O'Donnell character played by John Hurt in the movie 'The Field' comes to mind <i>"Bull, I'd rather cut it off with a rusty razor"Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-18798284523702216782018-12-06T10:13:56.622+00:002018-12-06T10:13:56.622+00:00Henry Joy - I am not sure about the long history. ...Henry Joy - I am not sure about the long history. I take the view that rather than see post 1969 Provisional Republicanism as a linear progression from what went before, I think the discontinuties are more pronounced. There were very few uber nationalists - those that were, like Tony Madra Rua in the jail - were looked upon as eccentric. Very few even spoke Irish. The term used to describe some AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-68095823296949366552018-12-06T09:42:25.166+00:002018-12-06T09:42:25.166+00:00AM,
your points are well made. Yes, British behav...AM,<br /><br />your points are well made. Yes, British behaviour rather than merely a British presence was central; central to the genesis and indeed the longevity of the conflict. I think that's a useful distinction to bear in mind when reviewing the past (and also when anticipating a future). A long history of militant nationalism also contributed to the ferocity and longevity. Though it Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51877015829503412022018-12-05T22:22:22.222+00:002018-12-05T22:22:22.222+00:00Thanks Steve.
Henry Joy - It was a widespread eff...Thanks Steve.<br /><br />Henry Joy - <i>It was a widespread effort and nationalistic fervour was the glue that held it all together.</i><br /><br />I think you risk buying into the nationalist foundation myth, what Henry Patterson once described as the monochrome remembrance of itself. It is also a unionist shared perspective, which while not wrong for being unionist is wrong for being skewed. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-25651322895469105722018-12-05T20:56:06.701+00:002018-12-05T20:56:06.701+00:00"..like a lot of others they were motivated b..."..like a lot of others they were motivated by the moment, products of a momentum that carried many along, what may have started it long since forgotten or relegated in importance once it had spluttered or exploded into life and acquired an existence of its own."<br /><br /> A very apt analysis Anthony. Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24126879420045252482018-12-05T16:31:46.407+00:002018-12-05T16:31:46.407+00:00AM,
what motivated at an individual level is cert...AM,<br /><br />what motivated at an individual level is certainly up for debate. However the IRA and the INLA to a lesser extent had a presence throughout the island; training camps, networks of safe houses, munitions factories in the midlands, support units all over the place engaged in <i>fundraising</i>, keeping supply lines open and whatever else was required to keep a war going in the North,Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-72235831129363956122018-12-05T13:20:51.952+00:002018-12-05T13:20:51.952+00:00Henry Joy - I have no problem with your - as I see...Henry Joy - I have no problem with your - as I see it - abhorrence of obligatory nationalism. I find obligatory anything abhorrent, or near enough.<br /><br />Their deaths were extra judicial state execution in contravention of the state's own laws. The circumstances of their death are very relevant. <br /><br />We don't know what their relationship to the old lie was - quite possibly AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-92110253160724315812018-12-05T12:12:29.717+00:002018-12-05T12:12:29.717+00:00Barry,
I'd forgotten the circumstances of the...Barry,<br /><br />I'd forgotten the circumstances of their death, nonetheless their <i>'sacrifice'</i>, I'd bet at this upcoming commemoration, will be well wrapped in <i>'the old lie'</i>. <br /><br />Niall,<br /><br />if that's your point of view fair play to you for expressing it. I also claim my right to express my views. To minimise offence I borrowed the words ofHenry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17566634908830271632018-12-05T09:49:39.911+00:002018-12-05T09:49:39.911+00:00Barry,
that is a very germane point. Henry Joy at...Barry,<br /><br />that is a very germane point. Henry Joy at times lets his abhorrence towards obligatory nationalism, manifest itself in ways that obscure the point.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28825140899634778182018-12-05T09:40:04.369+00:002018-12-05T09:40:04.369+00:00Cheap shot Henry JoyCheap shot Henry JoyNiallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06013400649117430986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-40813083597734312782018-12-05T09:28:22.753+00:002018-12-05T09:28:22.753+00:00Henry Joy
Although I have no brief for the cause ...Henry Joy<br /><br />Although I have no brief for the cause and the organisation that they fought for, it needs to be pointed out that Grew and Carroll were murdered by the forces of the State in an illegal covert operation rather than dying for their country.Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-60607644573409949292018-12-04T23:01:32.519+00:002018-12-04T23:01:32.519+00:00"... you would not tell with such high zest
T..."... you would not tell with such high zest<br />To children ardent for some desperate glory,<br />The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est<br />Pro patria mori."<br /><br />Dulce et Decorum Est <br />BY WILFRED OWEN (1893-1918).Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.com