tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post1907066179256130310..comments2024-03-29T06:51:03.388+00:00Comments on TPQ: A Few Thoughts On Ulster Unionists And The Nature Of A United IrelandAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-73852190268032195432021-06-19T22:04:34.947+01:002021-06-19T22:04:34.947+01:00it is your eccentricity - it might be the eccentri...it is your eccentricity - it might be the eccentricity of a few others as well. It has absolutely no relevance to anything. Trawl the papers and political discourse and you will not find it mentioned. It is like the lost tribe of Israel. An wholly marginalised and fringe opinion that is not going to get you listened to, much like young earth or Elvis is still alive. Nobody else but you today AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-54314363964545321452021-06-19T20:51:09.126+01:002021-06-19T20:51:09.126+01:00And our own situation:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org...And our own situation:<br /><br />https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_nations_theory_(Ireland)Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-89533060014847265052021-06-19T20:50:01.306+01:002021-06-19T20:50:01.306+01:00I'm amazed you think Two Nations in Ireland is...I'm amazed you think Two Nations in Ireland is my eccentricity. It was foundational from long before Partition.<br /><br />And the same principle has applied elsewhere:<br /><br />https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-nation_theoryWolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59593622434395831732021-06-18T21:54:14.926+01:002021-06-18T21:54:14.926+01:00do you reckon there is as much evidence for the ex...do you reckon there is as much evidence for the existence of a Ulster Scots nation as there is for a 6000 year old earth or would one have more evidence in its favour than another?AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-3903505872399870342021-06-18T21:05:36.791+01:002021-06-18T21:05:36.791+01:00there was never any divvying up of the land betwee...there was never any divvying up of the land between two nations because there were never two nations there. That exists in your head but in few other places. <br />It is so well established where self determination lies in the North that it is a waste of time to labour the point. But feel free to hold onto that belief. That very few will pay it the slightest attention does not mean you are AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-24397644629374787662021-06-18T20:20:28.154+01:002021-06-18T20:20:28.154+01:00AM said:
‘As the only body in the North that has a...AM said:<br />‘As the only body in the North that has a right to self determination is the six county unit there is only a need for the consent of that body. A majority of nationalists was never considered essential for partition to prevail so it is a bit late in the day to shift the goalposts.’<br /><br />Partition was conceived as a divying-up of the land for the two nations. But it did not Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-777610035757248842021-06-18T20:20:10.197+01:002021-06-18T20:20:10.197+01:00AM said:
‘The Ulster Scots / Ulster British are no...AM said:<br />‘The Ulster Scots / Ulster British are not a nation (the slippage between the terms implies whoever uses the either-or doesn't know that they are either) but a figment of imagination.’<br /><br />No, it means different terms can be used to denote the same entity. Like Gael/Irish.<br /><br />‘Where are they recognised as a nation in International law?’<br /><br />Nations do not Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-48449867036799213272021-06-18T18:52:51.995+01:002021-06-18T18:52:51.995+01:00remember that only a week ago Leo was pandering to...remember that only a week ago Leo was pandering to the rise in support for SF by talking up a united Ireland in his lifetime. The reaction from Brandon Lewis and others has him in reverse gear.<br />I suppose now with the rise and fall of Dickie Dinosaur, unionism is in a more confused and disorganised state than heretofore. But he was totally out of touch with reality so it is no surprise reallyAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-63955423103811501662021-06-18T18:49:21.329+01:002021-06-18T18:49:21.329+01:00The Ulster Scots / Ulster British are not a nation...The Ulster Scots / Ulster British are not a nation (the slippage between the terms implies whoever uses the either-or doesn't know that they are either) but a figment of imagination. Where are they recognised as a nation in International law? What provisions exists for them that applies to say the Irish nation? Claiming to be the old nation of Lurganoia doesn't make a nation of LurganoniaAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-69469420963121950222021-06-18T17:58:12.056+01:002021-06-18T17:58:12.056+01:00AM said:
‘But Leo's party has a long history o...AM said:<br />‘But Leo's party has a long history of abandoning nationalists in the North. Had the Southern establishment taken more interest in representing nationalists in the North without pushing for a united Ireland, I think the IRA campaign might have been avoided.’<br /><br />Yes, missed opportunities all around. Lemass and O'Neill could have begun a real process of mutual respectWolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-52334346108179396772021-06-18T17:57:43.735+01:002021-06-18T17:57:43.735+01:00AM said:
‘There are three nations on the island of...AM said:<br />‘There are three nations on the island of GB - England, Scotland and Wales. In Ireland we have the Irish nation - what is the other?’<br /><br />The Ulster Scots/Ulster British, whatever term for the same ethnic people. Nationalists often called them the Planters, which is fair enough. Just as distinct from the Gael/Irish as the Kurds are from the Turks, or the English from the Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-40158607108863444732021-06-18T06:44:38.031+01:002021-06-18T06:44:38.031+01:00It is one of these ideas that is put out there but...It is one of these ideas that is put out there but does not survive the ridicule test. Nevertheless, I am glad he is putting his ideas out there. I don't think it is easy for a unionist to even discuss some of the things he is without somebody shouting Lundy. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-67244126515667943252021-06-17T23:00:44.284+01:002021-06-17T23:00:44.284+01:00Wolfie,
"Steve R said:
‘What a load of bollo...Wolfie,<br /><br />"Steve R said:<br />‘What a load of bollocks. In reality you are saying Unionism has a price and can be bought off.’<br /><br />No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying in the circumstances where Unionism has been defeated, one way to keep from having many angry and resentful aliens living in the UI would be to honourably offer them compensation for their property and Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65689681114783726962021-06-17T22:50:05.842+01:002021-06-17T22:50:05.842+01:00AM,
Where he got that brain fart of compensation ...AM,<br /><br />Where he got that brain fart of compensation is beyond me. That's the first I've heard of that and it's insulting.<br /><br />First cab off the rank in a UI should be an enshrined separation of church and state. Can think of few things worse than a bunch of free p's making life miserable for everyone else.Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43029969693627597052021-06-17T22:03:50.242+01:002021-06-17T22:03:50.242+01:00Dickie Dinosaur has resigned as DUP leader. The ne...Dickie Dinosaur has resigned as DUP leader. The next leader might be more progressive and believe the earth is 7000 years old!!!AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-29075846259514869562021-06-17T21:09:58.661+01:002021-06-17T21:09:58.661+01:00he could do worse than read it. Given the nonsense...he could do worse than read it. Given the nonsense he spouts in the first sentence you cite. SF's position is not socialist, protectionist, euro critical, ourselves alone. It is 50+1 but that is what Leo's party signed up to in the GFA. I keep going back to the same point because I have heard noting yet that can defeat its core democratic and egalitarian logic: if 50+1 is enough to AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-16898996734612664552021-06-17T19:37:10.891+01:002021-06-17T19:37:10.891+01:00Here, has Leo been reading this thread? A bi-natio...Here, has Leo been reading this thread? A bi-national state! <br /><br />He said: 'We know the crude vision espoused by Sinn Fein, it's not an inclusive one – a cold form of republicanism, socialist, narrow nationalism, protectionist, anti-British, euro-critical, ourselves alone, 50 per cent plus one and nobody else is needed. That is not a 21st-century vision.<br /><br />'Our vision Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-46907801816854570662021-06-17T15:24:58.368+01:002021-06-17T15:24:58.368+01:00The North does have the right to self determinatio...The North does have the right to self determination. It is enshrined in international law although not as national self determination. Unionism does not have any right to self determination any more than Nationalism in the North has. The people of the North not one section of it has the right to self determination. <br />Evangelicals will do what is good for business and family so long as they AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-70094542667301831102021-06-17T15:18:46.724+01:002021-06-17T15:18:46.724+01:00There are three nations on the island of GB - Engl...There are three nations on the island of GB - England, Scotland and Wales. In Ireland we have the Irish nation - what is the other? It would need to have more than the status of a creationist myth Ian for anybody to take it seriously. <br />International law can be an ass but not a talking one!!! It is what we have and it is not going to be subverted by a tiny crowd in the North who might try to AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-41131241560286482002021-06-17T14:29:19.661+01:002021-06-17T14:29:19.661+01:00AM said:
‘I don't think anybody has suggested...AM said:<br /><br />‘I don't think anybody has suggested that nationality is determined by majority. But there are not two nations in Ireland. Much as there are not two nations in England, Scotland or Wales. There are lots of people who live in each of different nationalities. But that is a far cry from the two nations theory.’<br /><br />There are two nations in the island of Ireland, just Wolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-4354222936907678212021-06-17T14:23:44.120+01:002021-06-17T14:23:44.120+01:00Steve R said:
‘What a load of bollocks. In reality...Steve R said:<br />‘What a load of bollocks. In reality you are saying Unionism has a price and can be bought off.’ <br /><br />No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying in the circumstances where Unionism has been defeated, one way to keep from having many angry and resentful aliens living in the UI would be to honourably offer them compensation for their property and expenses in relocating toWolfsbanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06874590970329192225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-69214622965406149492021-06-17T08:00:37.201+01:002021-06-17T08:00:37.201+01:00Steve - with the slowness of glacial or tectonic, ...Steve - with the slowness of glacial or tectonic, the one thing that seems certain is that it will not be fast. And I will not even see the start of itAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28245202623866403382021-06-17T07:57:00.094+01:002021-06-17T07:57:00.094+01:00Steve, when they come in, bringing that British va...Steve, when they come in, bringing that British value they have about a strong National Health Service for all, just watch how quickly they will be made welcome. If they bring the arrogance of demanding compensation for choices they voluntarily make they will be told where to go. Same for us all. I haven't seen Ian demand compensation for the gay folk who left the North because of its laws AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-26833113839409642212021-06-17T00:48:27.999+01:002021-06-17T00:48:27.999+01:00"If compensation is not considered for those ..."If compensation is not considered for those wishing to leave, then it will lock-in very many angry and resentful Unionists. They will have no interest in making Ireland work, and that's without considering an on-going, low-level terrorist campaign that Loyalist might wage (with a lot of sympathy if not support, just as the IRA enjoyed from many Nationalists)."<br /><br />What a Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-75556387072974716112021-06-16T22:21:19.349+01:002021-06-16T22:21:19.349+01:00"They might huff and puff about not making Ir..."They might huff and puff about not making Ireland work - if they stay they will make it work otherwise there is no point in staying."<br /><br />I think this will be far more accurate than anything else. People by and large will just want to go peacefully about their daily grind. Pay the bills, have a pint and watch the football. If there is a UI then it won't be with a bang it Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.com