tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post1070206898719186561..comments2024-03-28T12:21:02.309+00:00Comments on TPQ: The Myth Of ‘Forced Vaccination’AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-81174346868054939892021-09-25T19:59:03.794+01:002021-09-25T19:59:03.794+01:00I get a lot out of them too. The comments section ...I get a lot out of them too. The comments section is a place where we practice our ideas. If they are wrong so be it. I regard comments as unsworn testimony and don't hold people to what they say forever and a day. <br />The conspiracy theorist characterisation is replicated in ways in the debate with religious people. Not all believers are wack jobs. But once the Young Earth Creationists AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-35543880605169060202021-09-25T19:24:42.824+01:002021-09-25T19:24:42.824+01:00I know you look at things from a range of angles, ...I know you look at things from a range of angles, you always do, that's why I enjoy these exchanges. I always have to rethink my position when debating with you and that's the whole point, what's the point otherwise? I'm not concerned about people agreeing with the establishment, or even thinking non vaccinated people shouldn't enjoy the same privileges as vaccinated as they Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-46214517993873560272021-09-25T18:29:22.967+01:002021-09-25T18:29:22.967+01:00My body my choice is not a universally acknowledge...My body my choice is not a universally acknowledged position. Look at heroin, right to die to name two areas. It is how our choices impact on other people is probably what we should be looking at. A cancer patient who refuses Chemo - there is no real debate about it because the cancer is not transmissible. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-45681318753520201722021-09-25T17:10:41.831+01:002021-09-25T17:10:41.831+01:00thank you Anthony. I can't see you or any work...thank you Anthony. I can't see you or any working class Belfast person banishing people from their presence due to vaccination status. It is more of the far left Harvard faculty lounge woke liberal types who see themselves as morally superior. Most unvaccinated I believe are not the far right fringe type but just average people who want to make the decision on their own timeline. Not have Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05263777399426493919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-80277981881160018102021-09-25T16:16:37.645+01:002021-09-25T16:16:37.645+01:00excluding people from shared spaces is permissible...excluding people from shared spaces is permissible if they are deemed to pose a risk. It is discriminatory but discrimination is not always a negative. It could be rationalised as discriminating in favour of health policy. Whether we should be ok with it is another matter even if it is permissible. <br />People have a choice to go or not but that choice is restricted by the presence of others whoAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-47872103171423672822021-09-25T15:06:00.496+01:002021-09-25T15:06:00.496+01:00it's not a matter of it being permissible (a b...it's not a matter of it being permissible (a bit different from being ok) to exclude people on the basis of their beliefs but on their practice. People can believe whatever they want but they can't practice that belief on others. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-79180578883608804902021-09-25T13:03:22.031+01:002021-09-25T13:03:22.031+01:00By that reasoning, is it ok to exclude people base...By that reasoning, is it ok to exclude people based on other's beliefs? I'm not talking about forcing people to associate, they have a choice to go or not. Excluding people from shared spaces is , in my view, discriminatory.<br /> Technically, you're right about manager's discretion, but we all know the social contract means people being unreasonable, while unreasonable Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9878934613933179552021-09-25T12:45:29.680+01:002021-09-25T12:45:29.680+01:00People don't need to have their right to choos...People don't need to have their right to choose what company to be in to be based on science or reason. It is enough for people to have a belief and then on the basis of it to make their decision. And we can't force them into associating with people they choose not to. Here, your employer has no right to know whether you have been vaccinated. The state is not suspending civil liberties AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-20192946348221283112021-09-25T11:10:07.806+01:002021-09-25T11:10:07.806+01:00On the question of rights, they were preexisting, ...On the question of rights, they were preexisting, now non vaccinated are having their civil liberties suspended. How then can they have all the rights. It's almost universally accepted that both vaccinated and anti vaccinated spread the disease so saying vaccinated are shielding themselves from toxins isn't based on reason or science. <br /> Non vaccination areas are discriminatory Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-15804973912964244642021-09-25T09:44:41.644+01:002021-09-25T09:44:41.644+01:00once they believe in astrology - I just close the ...once they believe in astrology - I just close the book!AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11792773087716402222021-09-25T09:43:33.919+01:002021-09-25T09:43:33.919+01:00People don't want others polluting them with t...People don't want others polluting them with their toxins as they see it. I can't imagine me refusing a beer with you because you have not been vaccinated, much like I would not banish you from my company were you having a smoke. Maybe pubs will have a non-vaccination section. Yesterday in Dublin the bar staff asked us for our vaccination certs: then it was a great day after that. <br /AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-42967137325950004132021-09-25T00:03:39.757+01:002021-09-25T00:03:39.757+01:00Many good points on here. Maybe we are suspicious ...Many good points on here. Maybe we are suspicious because these so called experts have been proven so wrong so many times about this. Masks don't work, oh yes they do, maybe they don't. Covid came from a pangolin in a wet market. Or maybe it was the Wuhan lab. Maybe we don't know. 6 feet social distancing is necessary. Where did they come up with that? Former FDA head Scott Gottlieb Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05263777399426493919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-64797085115891941182021-09-24T22:56:05.259+01:002021-09-24T22:56:05.259+01:00Kary Mullis denied that humans cause climate chang...Kary Mullis denied that humans cause climate change and that HIV causes aids<br /><br />A 2007 New York Times article listed Mullis as one of several scientists who, after success in their area of research, go on to make unfounded, sometimes bizarre statements in other areas.[46] In his 1998 humorous autobiography proclaiming his maverick viewpoint, Mullis expressed disagreement with the Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-90124131593604901642021-09-24T20:00:33.507+01:002021-09-24T20:00:33.507+01:00As in 'Bio-security@'/As in 'Bio-security@'/<br /><br />frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-63582670239198146732021-09-24T19:18:15.377+01:002021-09-24T19:18:15.377+01:00AM- Indeed vaccines do work and the Covid 19 ones ...AM- Indeed vaccines do work and the Covid 19 ones are a welcome achievement. They lessened the intensity of the disease for most and have saved countless lives of those with underlying conditions.<br />Having been vaccinated does NOT mitigate against transmission though. Those who are young or in rude good health, who have been vaccinated can still contract the virus. Though they are carrying theHenry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-32854119209607432132021-09-24T18:19:34.905+01:002021-09-24T18:19:34.905+01:00Anthony,
To clarify what I mean by the fo...Anthony, <br /> To clarify what I mean by the follow the science comment is not that science and religion are complicit or equally misleading, obviously they are not. What I mean is people who are not any better versed than myself on a subject, Will dismiss my logic by saying the science says this or that as if it's singular, the glory of science is that can and should be challenged. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9308818256929981272021-09-24T11:36:09.280+01:002021-09-24T11:36:09.280+01:00Anthony the scientist who David and Patrick talk a...Anthony the scientist who David and Patrick talk about is Kary Mullis. He got a Nobel Laureate for coming up with the PCR test and his work on the HIV virus. frankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-56317965852860291752021-09-24T11:10:42.918+01:002021-09-24T11:10:42.918+01:00Too much time is spent debating vaccines and not e...Too much time is spent debating vaccines and not enough on the need for passports and the social consequences they bring. Vaccines generally have improved the outcome of humanity over disease. Patrick Mooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912745948523790308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11706159237859443142021-09-24T09:52:38.923+01:002021-09-24T09:52:38.923+01:00David - the task of the scientist you cite is to p...David - the task of the scientist you cite is to persuade his colleagues in the scientific community of the merits of the case. Science is not religion, where everything is evidence resistant. <br />There is that power balance within the world you refer to but that has much wider application than the Covid vaccine. It is a question of inequality and massive wealth disparity.<br />I hear regularlyAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-79914050871001147232021-09-24T08:13:36.891+01:002021-09-24T08:13:36.891+01:00Henry Joy - I guess there is much in that - they w...Henry Joy - I guess there is much in that - they work to different degrees. While not been an avid follower of vaccines, having basically listened to discussions and podcasts along with some casual reading, it seems the argument that vaccines work is pretty close to the mark in a way that the statement vaccines don't work is not in any way close to the mark. It's like claiming doctors areAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11420143805654473482021-09-23T23:42:07.159+01:002021-09-23T23:42:07.159+01:00AM- yes some vaccines work, but not all to the sam...AM- yes some vaccines work, but not all to the same extent. They don't all work in all circumstances. Effectiveness of any vaccine depends on the stability of the virus. Polio for example is inherently stable and the vaccine almost bulletproof, but Covid 19 is a flu variant and as such is most likely inherently unstable. In the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine is only specifically a Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-79960265786986802872021-09-23T23:01:10.061+01:002021-09-23T23:01:10.061+01:00Anthony, I agree vaccines work, I think everyone d...Anthony, I agree vaccines work, I think everyone does, more or less. My concern is the motive. The scientist I cite is a champion of vaccines, he was a key inventor. His argument is that if this was purely about public health then the vulnerable in Dakar, the slums of Rio, etc would take priority over healthy people in Belfast or New York, the reason the don't is financial, plain and simple. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-66993530592504562812021-09-23T21:42:52.308+01:002021-09-23T21:42:52.308+01:00AM- I agree, it's not easy to stay on top of e...AM- I agree, it's not easy to stay on top of everything, but I've read recently that we're equally vulnerable to infection from those vaccinated as we are from those not. The viral loads in swabs taken from those vaccinated was more or less the same as those taken from the unvaccinated.<br />Based on that, and whatever about vaccination there's still a need to keep with the Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-62606185240870110482021-09-23T21:00:55.649+01:002021-09-23T21:00:55.649+01:00David always brings something useful to the discus...David always brings something useful to the discussion, whether we agree with him or not.<br />Nobody relinquishes new found power - not just governments. And a certain power accrues from being a dissenting voice which the dissenters if they are to be of public service need<br />to keep a watchful eye on. <br />Vaccines work - that's the history in a nutshell. A government not in pursuit of aAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91573931113498731572021-09-23T20:13:40.484+01:002021-09-23T20:13:40.484+01:00Needless to say, I agree with David on this, I don...Needless to say, I agree with David on this, I don't know him but his points, to me are valid. My only point here at this time, on this, is that I think there is a gross underestimate on just how many medical and scientific experts would agree with most of David's points. I know it's a tiresome subject but it's not going away soon and so much is changing on the back of it and Patrick Mooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912745948523790308noreply@blogger.com