tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post7914534929489240942..comments2024-03-28T13:35:30.500+00:00Comments on TPQ: Criticism of Israel Is Not Antisemitism AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-25368423933081568482018-12-08T17:12:30.612+00:002018-12-08T17:12:30.612+00:00Barry- you're argument is flawed. You quote in...Barry- you're argument is flawed. You quote international bodies as if they're sacrosanct. You ignore the self interest of humanity. It's got to the point where debating this topic with you is pointless. You call yourself anti racist, you wouldn't know the meaning of the term. Your every comment elevates one section of society above another. Some how the contraction is lost on you.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-561592501569114932018-12-06T20:57:18.989+00:002018-12-06T20:57:18.989+00:00Barry - there are people pressing all the time aga...Barry - there are people pressing all the time against a powerful lobby to have the Israeli treatment of Palestinians considered genocide. <a href="https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective" rel="nofollow">The Center for Constitutional Rights</a> being just one advocacy body.<br /><br />For those who genuinely feel that war criminals inhabitAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-87622156390806947412018-12-06T19:34:01.995+00:002018-12-06T19:34:01.995+00:00David
Nazism is synonymous with genocide which is...David<br /><br />Nazism is synonymous with genocide which is a distinct crime in international law and which is why in the scholarship relating to genocide and related crimes against humanity Nazism is grouped alongside Rwanda, Bosnia, the Armenian genocide, the Khmer Rouge, Darfur and, in my opinion, the Royingha ethnic cleansing in Burma. Israel/Palestine does not feature in that catalogue Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-90681460972917508832018-12-06T17:10:42.494+00:002018-12-06T17:10:42.494+00:00David - I think that nails it concisely. David - I think that nails it concisely. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-41416777419515293302018-12-06T17:06:27.845+00:002018-12-06T17:06:27.845+00:00Barry,
In my opinion you're doing...Barry,<br /> In my opinion you're doing it right now. The pushing of the ihra definition. For me the ihra definition is a blatant tactic to curtail criticism of Israel. Take the comparing Israel to Nazis. Nazis have become synonymous with war crimes. if you commit war crimes you should expect comparisons with Nazis. Exempting Israel from this under the pretence of hate crimes Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-68766734075003040012018-12-06T15:28:23.294+00:002018-12-06T15:28:23.294+00:00Barry - that will only happen if there is arroganc...Barry - that will only happen if there is arrogance on the part of the "expert". <br /><br />The logic suggested does not rule out the marginalised speaking, nor does it rule in the expert speaking on their behalf without their approval. <br /><br />What it does do is to recognise that experience has to be validated by the person who has undergone it but that such validation does not AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-63314405586817240662018-12-06T15:13:15.926+00:002018-12-06T15:13:15.926+00:00AM
The danger of that logic is that others can ar...AM<br /><br />The danger of that logic is that others can arrogate to themselves the right to speak on behalf of the marginalised group. This has been the case in the disability sphere where people with disabilities (in my case neuro-diverse conditions) sometimes resent the paternalism of medical and education professional led charities like SCOPE and the National Autistic Society. The biopic Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-54754900437819682162018-12-06T10:19:32.316+00:002018-12-06T10:19:32.316+00:00Barry - skin colour nor ethnicity gives people pol...Barry - skin colour nor ethnicity gives people poll position to speak about injustice that they feel they experience. The intellectual quality of their argument and coherence of their logic is what gives people that place. Their experience cannot be understood without them having a serious input but victims logic can be on a par with victims justice. They may be the first witness for the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-87412534648777038382018-12-05T23:14:02.264+00:002018-12-05T23:14:02.264+00:00David
I have not seen that documentary but in wha...David<br /><br />I have not seen that documentary but in what way have I supported institutions that have made a two-state solution impossible?Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8334757091110100072018-12-05T18:22:54.140+00:002018-12-05T18:22:54.140+00:00Barry,
The speech pattern was similar,...Barry,<br /> The speech pattern was similar, i.e saying you're for a two state solution while supporting institutions that make such eventuality impossible. In the documentary they were far more candid about their true objectives unaware they were being recorded. I heard it and thought of you. If you're not a member, you're not a member. Revising any comment is irrelevant Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-83983048854844868462018-12-05T14:59:17.084+00:002018-12-05T14:59:17.084+00:00AM
I totally endorse what you say.
But I need to...AM<br /><br />I totally endorse what you say.<br /><br />But I need to say it is a choice to be a Christian, Muslim or any other faith group; therefore not# right to be offended or to police freedom of expression or internal cultural values.<br /><br />Skin colour and ethnicity are different though as one is born with those attributes. Accordingly they do have an a priori right to point pout andBarry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65727586217976441102018-12-05T09:46:21.806+00:002018-12-05T09:46:21.806+00:00Barry - it should factor in the Holocaust but not ...Barry - it should factor in the Holocaust but not in a compulsory sense. It should also be free to factor in the use of the Holocaust as a strategy of legitimisation against the Palestinians and criticism of the Israeli state.<br /><br />I don't think people should fear jail but they might have things to fear if such a labeling strategy was to gain sway. <br /><br />I don't subscribe to AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-32077895366064626792018-12-05T09:23:38.464+00:002018-12-05T09:23:38.464+00:00Henry Joy
I totally support UN Resolution 242 and...Henry Joy<br /><br />I totally support UN Resolution 242 and (like most of the world community) support a two-state solution based on 1967 boundaries. There is no contradiction between advocacy of the IHRA definition and calling for Israeli withdrawal from the Occupied Territories and and end to settlements in the context of a comprehensive settlement which was so nearly achieved at the end of Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-53404998997706699022018-12-05T08:08:59.124+00:002018-12-05T08:08:59.124+00:00Barry - you have a right to believe what you wish....Barry - you have a right to believe what you wish. What I am asking is do you really feel you have a right to label as anti-Semitic someone who conscientiously dissents from the legitimacy of the state of Israel on the grounds of moral revulsion at the Nakba, the war crimes or the widespread and persistent persecution of the Palestinians? AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-23580709129474149872018-12-05T04:23:08.284+00:002018-12-05T04:23:08.284+00:00Barry, you said: “The IHRA definition does differe...Barry, you said: “The IHRA definition does differentiate between legitimate and antisemitic criticisms of Israel in the following ways. Examples of the latter are 'accusing Israel of exaggerating or inventing the Holocaust' and 'accusing Jews of being more loyal to Israel than to their own nations'”<br /><br />But the Israeli government does misuse & exploit past Jewish Eoghanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11944611614493961109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-30265294244497865642018-12-05T01:13:53.798+00:002018-12-05T01:13:53.798+00:00Barry,
despite my partner's son's marriag...Barry,<br /><br />despite my partner's son's marriage to an Israeli woman (and the grave distress experienced, by both her and I, over the mutilation of her grandson's genitalia) the politics and conflicts of the Middle-East are not something I'd claim I'm passionate about nor indeed intimately familiar with.<br /><br />Yet like David Higgins, I did watch the recent Aljazeera Henry JoYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04161613445053833181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65167120676135165582018-12-04T21:11:13.919+00:002018-12-04T21:11:13.919+00:00AM
You have the right to call into question the c...AM<br /><br />You have the right to call into question the circumstances of Israel's birth and to call Israel a settler-colonialist/racist enterprise. I have an equal right to contest that description by asserting that both Jewish and Palestinian Arabs are have ancestral claims to historic Palestine and to explain how (without claiming to speak on their behalf) how many Jews may find Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-2187280015890799832018-12-04T20:49:15.593+00:002018-12-04T20:49:15.593+00:00Barry,
Frankie says relax!!Barry,<br /><br />Frankie says relax!!Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-55166517853531642732018-12-04T20:22:41.789+00:002018-12-04T20:22:41.789+00:00Barry - there is no IHA equivalent trying to label...Barry - there is no IHA equivalent trying to label people as Islamophobic if they do conscientiously object to the existence of Pakistan. Pakistan seceded from India - it did not go on a land grab of another people's land. Muslims from Europe did not flock into Pakistan to suppress the people living there, nor did they do likewise in 71 regarding Bangladesh. <br /><br />The bottom line is do AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-40636270238272547042018-12-04T20:21:24.906+00:002018-12-04T20:21:24.906+00:00Barry,
Explain how that's an attack...Barry,<br /> Explain how that's an attack or slur on yourself.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120277877011965034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-49746630470370013952018-12-04T20:09:36.130+00:002018-12-04T20:09:36.130+00:00AM
I wonder if ethical or conscientious objection...AM<br /><br />I wonder if ethical or conscientious objection to the states of India and Pakistan as Hindu and Muslim majority states conceived after the inter-communal massacres of 1947 would be considered anti-Hindu and anti-Muslim.<br /><br />Is it anti-Muslim and and anti-Arab to ethically oppose virtually every state in the MENA on the grounds that they are dictatorships who persecute women Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-13577494387276958592018-12-04T18:31:04.183+00:002018-12-04T18:31:04.183+00:00Barry - it is not about the legitimacy of the Isra...Barry - it is not about the legitimacy of the Israeli state. It is about the anti-pluralist stance of labelling as anti-Semitic conscientious objection to the legitimacy of that state. It matters not that the war crime of the Nakba might not had happened if only ... It did happen. Hitler might not have built the gas chambers if only ... He did build them. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9240914682675282542018-12-04T15:49:42.599+00:002018-12-04T15:49:42.599+00:00AM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on t...AM<br /><br />I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the legitimacy of the origins of the State of Israel. The Nakba was a traumatic and transformative event for the Palestinian people. It may not have happened had the Palestinian leadership accepted the UN Partition Plan for Mandate Palestine which would have created an independent Jewish majority state and an independent Arab majority Barry Gilheanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220262677398695734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-60028547927494862782018-12-04T07:04:57.964+00:002018-12-04T07:04:57.964+00:00Barry - that would make a better article than a co...Barry - that would make a better article than a comment.<br /><br />But it has no negative impact whatsoever on the justness of the case to oppose the existence of the state of Israel on grounds of conscientious objection because of the Nakba: much as people had every right to oppose the existence of South Africa as a white supremacist apartheid regime. <br /><br /><br />It is totalitarian AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-83318910852817320982018-12-03T22:44:56.554+00:002018-12-03T22:44:56.554+00:00Barry,
Do you ever relax? And stop with the slur ...Barry,<br /><br />Do you ever relax? And stop with the slur on your whatever nonsense. You called me a few things, then you said sorry only to have a sly dig with your "Get out of jail free card because you have a friend/relative" remark...<br /><br />Grow a pair of balls. It is the internet. Go to your fridge and open a tube of beer and listen to music and be thankful you wake up eachfrankiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452424095829736700noreply@blogger.com