tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post2807982637221098913..comments2024-03-28T10:25:42.597+00:00Comments on TPQ: Provisional Sinn Féin, Republicanism, And Socialism: Some Comments AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-88410842159907661022019-07-13T14:28:29.469+01:002019-07-13T14:28:29.469+01:00The Irish will be a minority in their homeland in ...The Irish will be a minority in their homeland in two decades because of the New Muslim and Subsaharan Plantation you are ignoring. These newcomers will always have an ethnic homeland to return to if they so wish. We won't. You are talking rubbish.Frank Dubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16498913615337426739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-2713106686583962972019-07-11T18:05:05.754+01:002019-07-11T18:05:05.754+01:00Very much so - would be wholly wrong for anyone to...Very much so - would be wholly wrong for anyone to force that logic on you. We must be free to believe what we want. Which also means people have to be equally free to believe something different from what we want them to believe. Useful that the position is seen as so weak - it is when people think it is strong that the problems start.AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-8023967257447686272019-07-11T16:12:21.151+01:002019-07-11T16:12:21.151+01:00No-one can force the logic on me that, because our...No-one can force the logic on me that, because our current position is so weak, we should abandon our long-cherished goal of an independent Ireland and a society befitting the Irish people. I think we’ve come to the end here. No doubt there will be further discussion down the line.Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74876868915992576552019-07-11T07:17:41.042+01:002019-07-11T07:17:41.042+01:00The object of Catholicism is a Catholic Ireland. T...The object of Catholicism is a Catholic Ireland. The effort is to see its sovereignty extend all over Ireland.<br /><br />I have no doubt people believe that too and consider it a good thing. But having a mantra is not going to make it happen. <br /><br />People have as much right to reject nationalist opinion as they have to reject Catholic opinion. There should no more be obligatory nationalismAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-11484733440405731832019-07-11T07:17:39.954+01:002019-07-11T07:17:39.954+01:00The object of Catholicism is a Catholic Ireland. T...The object of Catholicism is a Catholic Ireland. The effort is to see its sovereignty extend all over Ireland.<br /><br />I have no doubt people believe that too and consider it a good thing. But having a mantra is not going to make it happen. <br /><br />People have as much right to reject nationalist opinion as they have to reject Catholic opinion. There should no more be obligatory nationalismAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59532469475799371542019-07-10T10:18:24.748+01:002019-07-10T10:18:24.748+01:00The object of Republicanism is the Republic; the e...The object of Republicanism is the Republic; the effort is to see its sovereignty extend over all Ireland. Your argument is by extension an endorsement of the leadership’s shift and rhetoric won’t change what underpins it. I agree that it’s awful what happened and the lives lost but the causal factor was not a misguided Republican strategy. A terrorist war was mounted in and on our country by an Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17716469254332781222019-07-10T09:15:57.098+01:002019-07-10T09:15:57.098+01:00Gerry and Martin were never right. They had more r...Gerry and Martin were never right. They had more radical options but none to secure a Republic. Just as today republicans have more radical options, just not any that would secure a Republic. If the border goes it will be in spite of republicanism not because of it. A sad denouement to so many years that could have been better spent, and for many even lived. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-67677227331236291112019-07-10T06:47:48.578+01:002019-07-10T06:47:48.578+01:00Retreat into constitutionalism it is then — the th...Retreat into constitutionalism it is then — the third option which perhaps you missed. Seems like Gerry and Martin were right after all.Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-7715580550929796272019-07-10T06:44:05.131+01:002019-07-10T06:44:05.131+01:00Sean - you are right about the nonsense talk of th...Sean - you are right about the nonsense talk of the Plymouth Brethren - a group founded in the 1820s in Dublin that held to the inerrant word of the bible. So as purveyors of nonsense, I thought it useful to introduce them as part of an observation that they have as likely to have much influence on what is going on post partition as republicanism. <br /><br />If we gloss over the rhetoric of the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-46727001134126417282019-07-09T20:37:51.032+01:002019-07-09T20:37:51.032+01:00It could be ‘got to’, if by no other means, post-a...It could be ‘got to’, if by no other means, post-a ‘Yes’ vote border poll — which, though not our preferred means, is written into international treaty as a trigger for constitutional change. The work of engaging the people with its merits, of the forward process we advocate, would need to have been done in advance of such a vote, which would impact the direction the political process would move Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-1370549289868636412019-07-09T20:17:28.973+01:002019-07-09T20:17:28.973+01:00it is rhetoric because it has been said for yonks ...it is rhetoric because it has been said for yonks with nothing outlined as to how to get there. The Plymouth Brethren could make the same argument as to how they are going to convert everybody in the new Ireland to their belief system. In fact I think I would listen to the Brethren first!!!<br /> AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-35328938518010995912019-07-09T19:09:01.352+01:002019-07-09T19:09:01.352+01:00That there should be national elections to a natio...That there should be national elections to a national parliament in the event of a ‘Yes’ vote border poll — as there should be in any event as far as Republicans are concerned — i.e in the now and without the requirement for any interim measure or vice — is not mere rhetoric but, with it, a clearly laid out political position. Likewise, that it is at such an assembly where the governmental basis Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-78742775405204808662019-07-09T18:21:47.576+01:002019-07-09T18:21:47.576+01:00Steve - I wish Dessie had not have carried on but ...Steve - I wish Dessie had not have carried on but he did and paid the ultimate price. What he thought he was fighting for was being diverted into the political careers of othersAMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-40695791260586955112019-07-09T18:12:33.442+01:002019-07-09T18:12:33.442+01:00No factoring in here of the possible impact of a v...No factoring in here of the possible impact of a vote that would allow the diaspora to vote, which is what might shift things in his favour. He will not be looking the vote from Ireland where everything you say is right, but from the states where they rename Patrick's Day Gerry Adams Day in New York. And if the main challenger is Bertie Ahern, he will fancy his chances. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-21376617484262832352019-07-09T09:35:53.898+01:002019-07-09T09:35:53.898+01:00Adams for President? Not a hope. Jean McConville a...Adams for President? Not a hope. Jean McConville and Robert McCartney will dog his every footstep on the campaign trail. Look what happened to McGuinnness, a far more popular politician than Adams, dogged by the IRA murder of Chief Prison Officer Brian Stack. McGuinness got only a paltry 13% of the vote. The most recent Sinn Fein candidate got less than half of McGuinness' vote. <br />Of Tonyol Dublinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18182098815007588271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-13758914697564507862019-07-08T23:04:25.386+01:002019-07-08T23:04:25.386+01:00Dessie Grew ended up full of holes in an Armagh fi...Dessie Grew ended up full of holes in an Armagh field for his political course of action, whilst his contemporary comrades leadership had already worked out the futility of his actions.<br /><br />He too probably believed the rhetoric. Choose your heroes wisely.<br /><br />Do you really think the present day Dail will ever vote for self termination Sean? <br /><br /> Steve Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670990166576346966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-69261057042366108002019-07-08T22:03:57.695+01:002019-07-08T22:03:57.695+01:00for those who are interested Sean there has to be ...for those who are interested Sean there has to be something more than rhetoric. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-90407659631612426312019-07-08T13:17:15.061+01:002019-07-08T13:17:15.061+01:00The idea is that we organise for the reconstitutio...The idea is that we organise for the reconstitution of the Irish Republic upon an end to Partition rule — it’s not rocket science. Come that event, the end of Partition, the Republican idea is that Dáil Éireann should be restored as a national parliament for all Ireland, convening upon free elections across Ireland’s 32 counties and sitting at first as a constituent assembly, tasked with framing Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-91114679835491923782019-07-08T06:12:00.133+01:002019-07-08T06:12:00.133+01:00Sean - four paragraphs and not a sliver of an idea...Sean - four paragraphs and not a sliver of an idea. Nor is it isolated. There has consistently been a dearth of ideas. It is instructive of the stasis that republican thought is in the grip of and above all else sends out a message that republicanism can make nothing happen. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-50606079888936810152019-07-07T20:13:42.051+01:002019-07-07T20:13:42.051+01:00The strain has come because British vices to hold ...The strain has come because British vices to hold Ireland, against her wishes, no longer provide the surety they once did. The contrived veto which Britain depends on, towards this end, has been eroded by demographic change. Brexit further ups the ante. Whether Republican strategy, Vatican II or the French Revolution had an input, here, is simply not relevant, for that in no way impacts the basicSean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74105361150095618232019-07-07T19:46:38.541+01:002019-07-07T19:46:38.541+01:00That said I am standing on the beach doing pretty ...That said I am standing on the beach doing pretty much nothing so it is not a criticism of you who is shouting help - just an observation. AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43839969910813411832019-07-07T19:45:31.477+01:002019-07-07T19:45:31.477+01:00But the strain could as easily have come from the ...But the strain could as easily have come from the French revolution or Vatican 2. Republicanism had nothing to do with it. It came in spite of republicanism not because of it. <br />No, republicans don't need to back a referendum to present the case for 32 County Sovereignty. But the presentation of the case by republicans will have all the efficacy of a rain dance. Who would pay it the AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-73230126855885336882019-07-07T18:36:26.025+01:002019-07-07T18:36:26.025+01:00If there were a ‘border referendum’ and were it to...If there were a ‘border referendum’ and were it to pass, the Union, in accord with an international treaty, will then be ended and a ‘sovereign united Ireland’ brought forward in its stead. It is precisely for this reason that the Union is under strain, for otherwise the pressure on the British constitution, born of Brexit and the ‘back stop’, would not be what it is.<br /><br />That this is an Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-64835148055474470532019-07-07T18:05:02.089+01:002019-07-07T18:05:02.089+01:00The union under strain is wholly independent of an...The union under strain is wholly independent of anything republicanism has done. If there is to be any change it will be as a result of a constitutional nationalist initiative - unity by consent - not a republican one of unity by coercion. Republicans might try and claim credit for it but it is like claiming credit for the good weather. Nor do the same able to step up to the plate and back a AMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-59545356735526217182019-07-07T15:33:42.198+01:002019-07-07T15:33:42.198+01:00With the above said, there is clearly a lot of wor...With the above said, there is clearly a lot of work to be done. Republicanism, despite the opportunities that have been gifted it, is just not in the greatest of places at this moment and that’s obvious. It need not remain so, however. National sovereignty and its advocacy are the key to ‘re-finding’ our feet. Building an initiative that focuses on this — on the right of the Irish people to Sean Bresnahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06842180620284317746noreply@blogger.com